Veda,

I always love your posts.

Here, you'll like this. Here's where the Axioms actually came from (if you don't mind if I correct you slightly). This is from my friend Ivan, who had an amazing education and used this as his basis to leave Scilo. It's rather long, so may take more than one post. Please note, I don't want to discuss the Axioms here. Ivan & I have already had such a long conversation about this... I'll leave it to you guys. Plus, well, the Axioms don't actually work and sort of socks me in my head too much in the wrong direction. Here you go, Veda:

"Dear --------, The problem with axioms and particularly with scientology is Goedel's Incompleteness theorem. Now Goedel's theorem has interesting history. At the turn of the century (20th) Hilbert one of the premier mathmaticians ( at least I think it was Hilbert) put out a task to the math dudes of the day that it was time to wrap up mathematics by putting it on a sound axiomatic footing such that it could be shown that mathematics particaulalry number theory was true and complete and that being so, the truths of mathematics could under pin science and establish science's basic truths thus proving that science was true as well. In other words mathematics could actually be a pure truth and the truest knowledge we have. In keeping with this Alfred Whitehead and Bertrand Russell pretty much wrote a multi volume text showing this ....at least until Goedel came along and in a small paper threw blew everything apart. This stuff is really complex and i dont even dare state the theorem in its original becasue frankly it sounds greek (it is greek has a lot omegas and stuff) But it says that given an axiomatic system of sufficent power (enough to handle basic arithmetic, yes, even that simple an axiomatic system) there exists statements that are unproveable. that is to say truths that are unable to be proved true within the system (It is supposed to be be complete. there ought to be no statements it can not generate or show to be true or false) and falsehoods that are unable to be proved false by the same simple system. How this is done is quite beyond this little message but you can google it and perhaps read a book called Goedel Escher and Bach by Hoffstadder which is a weird trip. this is some strange shit. (Goedel went sort of mad was a bud of einstein at the Institute of advanced studies at Princeton. he almost did not become a citizen of the US because he found errors in the US constitution and wanted to discuss them with the immigration people. Albert saved his ass.) It basically uses paradoxes which the sytem can not handle to show that any axiomatic system can generate statements that could be either true or false deep sixing the idea that math was the true underpinning of truth. Confused? you bet but no worries. In its original format it is rather powerful. Taking it to the SCN axioms is a stretch i grant but it is a thought.

After all that I sort of concluded that there are a truths that scientolgy can not encompass and falsehoods that it can not detect. It is the nature of this universe and axiomatic systems themselves. Further the bridge would have to be incomplete and possible impossible in the current universe ever to be complete. This is taking Goedel alot farther than it was intended but if the scn axioms are stronger and more complete than arithmetic it must be so.

think on that or .....better not...take a walk instead."