The Tech - Does It Ever Leave You?

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

I have a question that I'm sincerely curious about, and I offer it respectfully.

With all of this talk about people leaving the church and the "evils" of Scientology, I think I haven't stopped often enough to ask:

When someone reaches the level of OT 5, 6, 7, 8 - the upper levels (that rarified air that one shares with Tom Cruise) and then leaves Scientology, is it very hard to see the world outside a Scientology lens? When you are talking to people, grocery shopping and making every day decisions, is there any part of the technology that is useful, or is it like speaking a foreign language in a place where no one knows what you are talking about? What do you do with all of that knowledge - can you heal without turning your back on it? Where does the specific terminology go - does it have any use in the real world?

I'm fascinated because someone posted a Scientology question in the general discussion thread called, "Figure-Figure" and, reading the responses, I had absolutely no idea what everyone was talking about. That happens sometimes in people's stories - there are references that are like two spies talking in code. I think one could read all the books about the church that are published and still not understand a lot of the terminology or its meaning.

Can Scientology only be used in Scientology - and once you've been in the church, especially at these levels, does it entirely shift your frame of reference forever? How does one get it back or adjust to the "real world"? Can an OT8 really leave?

 

[Lermanet_com]

Shock therapy might work, - or anything that forces the mind to reboot, - for me it was skydiving that supplied the necessary SHOCK, LINK

 

[Idle Morgue]

Xenu's BF: With all due respect - I will answer YES - the TECH did leave me - it is rotting in the county dump! I can't help it - I could not resist!!

 

[freethinker]

I think you will find varied responses to this question so this applies to me.

As soon as I read the materials of OTIII, I had no use for the tech, if it can even be called tech.

I find the terminology useful even now. Some of the words in Scientology describe things better than other words and I can use many without defining them and people get it.

If I say to someone who never even heard of Scientology that so and so commited too many overts to others, most will understand what I meant without having to ask.

The terminology and what it describes is useful to me but the "tech" to solve those situations or conditions is completely bogus and without value to me as well.

 

[Bill]

I have a question that I'm sincerely curious about, and I offer it respectfully.

With all of this talk about people leaving the church and the "evils" of Scientology, I think I haven't stopped often enough to ask:

When someone reaches the level of OT 5, 6, 7, 8 - the upper levels (that rarified air that one shares with Tom Cruise) and then leaves Scientology, is it very hard to see the world outside a Scientology lens? When you are talking to people, grocery shopping and making every day decisions, is there any part of the technology that is useful, or is it like speaking a foreign language in a place where no one knows what you are talking about? What do you do with all of that knowledge - can you heal without turning your back on it? Where does the specific terminology go - does it have any use in the real world?

I'm fascinated because someone posted a Scientology question in the general discussion thread called, "Figure-Figure" and, reading the responses, I had absolutely no idea what everyone was talking about. That happens sometimes in people's stories - there are references that are like two spies talking in code. I think one could read all the books about the church that are published and still not understand a lot of the terminology or its meaning.

Can Scientology only be used in Scientology - and once you've been in the church, especially at these levels, does it entirely shift your frame of reference forever? How does one get it back or adjust to the "real world"? Can an OT8 really leave?

I made it up to OT 5 before I woke up. The Hubbard way of doing things has gone completely away. Even when I was a True Believer, I always felt that I could cope with the various problems and situations of life better using my own knowledge and skills rather than Hubbard's rote one-size-fits-all "formulas", codes, policies and whatnot. When I was on staff and in the Sea Org, I'd handle the situation and then figure out how to describe what I did as if I'd been "following policy".

So leaving Scientology made life much easier. I could drop the complication of pretending to follow Hubbard's crap.

Bill

 

[Mojo]

Can Scientology only be used in Scientology - and once you've been in the church, especially at these levels, does it entirely shift your frame of reference forever? How does one get it back or adjust to the "real world"? Can an OT8 really leave?

The most accurate (& simple) answer is yes 'and' no. Some people do and some people don't (fully transcend their scientology 'OT-whatever' frame of reference). Note I use the word transcend rather than adjust. Which I do so for the simple reason transcendence is a more accurate reflection of the post-scientology experience, than is the word adjust. A distinction worthy of (philosophical) dispute to be sure. Though one I nonetheless maintain is sound.

In the final analysis all individual experience of being is both unique and useful. Be it born of pleasure 'or' pain (can't know up without down, left absent right, good lacking evil). And while as a purely practical matter the question you pose seems straightforward enough, beneath it lies a fairly large swatch of spiritual wisdom (and the ways thereof).

At the risk of redundancy I will re-assert my (seemingly timeless) contention that ex-scientologists are by and large the wisest of people amongst us. For the simple reason, they know. And they know how to know, bull shit when they see it.

Lastly, the word 'forever' is a grave misnomer, especially as it relates to being human. Lol.

Mojo

ps: nice thread. good questions Xenu's Boyfriend.

 

[Panda Termint]

I think it's like any learned language or skillset. It gets rusty in disuse but you can usually dredge stuff up if you try.
If someone says "Grazie!" I can still remember the appropriate response, does this make me still-Italian?

 

[Arthur Dent]

I think it's like any learned language or skillset. It gets rusty in disuse but you can usually dredge stuff up if you try.
If someone says "Grazie!" I can still remember the appropriate response, does this make me still-Italian?

Well you were a scio, but were you, indeed, an Italian? It could make you an impostor Italian. Or an impasta Italian.

 

[Panda Termint]

Some would argue that I was an impasta as a scientologist, too.

 

[Mojo]

Some would argue that I was an impasta as a scientologist, too.

You were.

Mojo

note to self: maybe

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

I love this. Thank you to everyone who has posted so far - I'm learning and I'm really enjoying reading about your experiences. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

I think you will find varied responses to this question so this applies to me.

As soon as I read the materials of OTIII, I had no use for the tech, if it can even be called tech.

I find the terminology useful even now. Some of the words in Scientology describe things better than other words and I can use many without defining them and people get it.

If I say to someone who never even heard of Scientology that so and so commited too many overts to others, most will understand what I meant without having to ask.

The terminology and what it describes is useful to me but the "tech" to solve those situations or conditions is completely bogus and without value to me as well.

I'm fascinated, when you reached OTIII, was it like jumping off a cliff - had you been prepared in any way, or was it really a shock? Were you on any level about to justify/transform it by calling it a metaphor, or was it a truly WTF moment. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing....

 

[phenomanon]

I have a question that I'm sincerely curious about, and I offer it respectfully.

With all of this talk about people leaving the church and the "evils" of Scientology, I think I haven't stopped often enough to ask:

When someone reaches the level of OT 5, 6, 7, 8 - the upper levels (that rarified air that one shares with Tom Cruise) and then leaves Scientology, is it very hard to see the world outside a Scientology lens? When you are talking to people, grocery shopping and making every day decisions, is there any part of the technology that is useful, or is it like speaking a foreign language in a place where no one knows what you are talking about? What do you do with all of that knowledge - can you heal without turning your back on it? Where does the specific terminology go - does it have any use in the real world?

I'm fascinated because someone posted a Scientology question in the general discussion thread called, "Figure-Figure" and, reading the responses, I had absolutely no idea what everyone was talking about. That happens sometimes in people's stories - there are references that are like two spies talking in code. I think one could read all the books about the church that are published and still not understand a lot of the terminology or its meaning.

Can Scientology only be used in Scientology - and once you've been in the church, especially at these levels, does it entirely shift your frame of reference forever? How does one get it back or adjust to the "real world"? Can an OT8 really leave?

I think most of us only write in Scn'gese when we are replying to a Scn query.
I would never speak to a non-Scn'ist in the way that I posted on this thread. The 'assumption' on the "Figure-Figure thread was that the OP is an Auditor, and was asking for a Tech solution. He was given Auditing solutions. Those are not learned from the published books. They are learned in technical training.

ph

 

[TG1]

XB, those are some excellent questions.

Here’s how I see it …

People assiduously drill specific behaviors – like the behaviors practiced by the military, cops, medics, pilots, flight attendants, musicians, etc. – so they can perform those behaviors instinctively and well.

And therein lies much of the challenge in shedding Scientology ways of thinking and acting after you leave the Church of Scientology. The vast amount of drilling and practice that Scientologists do to be able to learn and practice Scientology tech instinctively and well and just be a “good Scientologist” can keep those old behaviors and thoughts going much longer than you would believe.

Many stories here describe the hard work that brave exes have done to emerge from the hardened shell of Scientology instincts, thinking and behavior that encases them. After so many years of thinking and acting like a Scientologist, they testify that it’s hard to even distinguish between Scientology-based reactions and other ways they might consider, assuming they even knew about some other ways of thinking and acting.

For long-time staff members who suffer from PTSD, who were been mentally, emotionally, financially and physically abused for years, shedding Scientological behaviors is probably even harder. And for those born into Scientology, their emergence from the Scientology bubble must indeed be like moving away from their home planet to a place with a different atmosphere, a lighter gravity and three suns.

For those who had access before Scientology through good parents or a good education to healthy non-Scientological paradigms the shift isn’t so hard. But in times of stress, old instincts can appear. Sometimes I see them pop up here at ESMB, although they’re much more on display over at Marty’s blog.

The dangerous stuff isn’t little things like silently labeling someone as X.X on the tone scale or attributing someone’s “natter” to their “overts.” Those things fade over time. And certainly the danger doesn’t come from reciting a basic Scientological auditing tip to someone who’s asking specifically about that. It’s all those old stupid agreements you made when you were during the cult, during drills and practice sessions and while on staff and under pressure, that anyone whatsoever was allowed to have any power whatsoever over you, your thoughts and actions, and could negate your freedom to walk out the door.

Those agreements – they’ll kill you every time.

On the flip side, I did practice and drill some things while in Scientology that continue to benefit me (and that I freely admit I might have been learned in lots of ways other than through Scientology):

1. Knowing how to be completely in the moment – noticing things, being aware, even hyper-vigilant, of everything going on around me – when I get the feeling something’s about to happen, good or bad.

2. Knowing how to be a very good, active listener and how to become honestly interested in what someone is sharing with me, as opposed to trying to be interesting to them.

3. Having confidence that, with sufficient information and good research, I can figure most things out for myself. And if I can’t, I’m willing to reach out for help from those who know more about the subject than I do.

4. Losing my fear of death. This doesn’t mean I know what’s going to happen when I die. I just no longer worry about it.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Since I left CofS, I've received a number of posted commentary advising me in Scientological terms to do or not do things- all by people who said they were done with Scn tech.

So if anyone tells you they're done with it, and it's all crap, you may want to check to see if their fingers are crossed.

On other fronts, though, as far as I'm concerned, if I like an idea, it's fine and is part of my life if and until I happen to decide I no longer agree with it. That's true of Christianity, which was my original faith, and it's true of Scn. It's true of anything.

It's just not anything I would need to worry about.

 

[Lori]

I still have family in so when I talk to them I revert back to scientology lingo. I was not raised in it so in normal speak I do not use it at all.

I think the thing I carry with me the most is my finely tuned BS meter. It is sooooo much more reliable than theirs!

 

[Gib]

XB, those are some excellent questions.

People assiduously drill specific behaviors – like the behaviors practiced by the military, cops, medics, pilots, flight attendants, musicians, etc. – so they can perform those behaviors instinctively and well.

I believe it's People are constantly SOLD on Hubbard's idea's of which some are stolen from other's (and I don't have a problem with that) and some his own, like History of Man, What to Audit. And it's own IDEA's that are , well Sci Fi.

 

[Claire Swazey]

A lot of the stuff Hubbard added was sci fi, indeed. Big dose of intel oriented crap, too, IMO. However, I think his ideas about "theta" aren't science fictiony and although influenced by Vedic religions, some of those ideas struck me as at least partly his own invention.

Just my opinion.

 

[freethinker]

I never did OTII, I found it on the internet and listened to the lecture on it by Ron.

When I was on staff there would be events where someone who had done it would get up and talk about how insidious it was.

I couldn't imagine what could be done to a person that if they remembered it they would perish.

When I read the story, I was more than glad I never did the level and wasted money on such a thing. AS far as I was concerned , it wasn't even a good attempt at creating an incident of such infamous consequences.

Anyone who never made it onto their OT levels should be grateful they never did.

I'm fascinated, when you reached OTIII, was it like jumping off a cliff - had you been prepared in any way, or was it really a shock? Were you on any level about to justify/transform it by calling it a metaphor, or was it a truly WTF moment. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing....

 

[programmer_guy]

I have a question that I'm sincerely curious about, and I offer it respectfully.

With all of this talk about people leaving the church and the "evils" of Scientology, I think I haven't stopped often enough to ask:

When someone reaches the level of OT 5, 6, 7, 8 - the upper levels (that rarified air that one shares with Tom Cruise) and then leaves Scientology, is it very hard to see the world outside a Scientology lens? When you are talking to people, grocery shopping and making every day decisions, is there any part of the technology that is useful, or is it like speaking a foreign language in a place where no one knows what you are talking about? What do you do with all of that knowledge - can you heal without turning your back on it? Where does the specific terminology go - does it have any use in the real world?

I'm fascinated because someone posted a Scientology question in the general discussion thread called, "Figure-Figure" and, reading the responses, I had absolutely no idea what everyone was talking about. That happens sometimes in people's stories - there are references that are like two spies talking in code. I think one could read all the books about the church that are published and still not understand a lot of the terminology or its meaning.

Can Scientology only be used in Scientology - and once you've been in the church, especially at these levels, does it entirely shift your frame of reference forever? How does one get it back or adjust to the "real world"? Can an OT8 really leave?

I don't use the SCN terminology in every day life.
I sometimes use it when responding to an SCN related thread or post (like SCN "tech" related).
I have rarely used it to respond to a poster who seems to be still stuck in it (like "get your TRs in").

What few SCN imperfect concepts (behavioral stuff "improvements" for employees talking to others) are easily seen in other "walks of life" not SCN related.
For example, many sales people seem to practice fake ARC (like Scientology registrars do) and Scientology Communication Course "cycles of communication" (asking a question, getting an answer, acknowledging the answer).

Sales ARC = Affinity (I like you or faking that I like you), Reality (i.e. agreement or fake agreement), and Communication (talking).