The Tech Error of ’62-’63—How it Went Negative: RogerB’s FZ Presentation in Pasadena

Roger,

Reorientation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgUqBQLIX-Y&feature=related

Is this what you are talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxIuMZcblYw

Would you clarify what you mean? Can you do this?

Hubbard's Tech has never been about actually "Doing" anything, it has always been about making yourself "Believe" you are doing something and convincing others you are doing something, it's a con game, but this con game does have some temporary benefits. The belief stimulates neurotransmitters in your brain which make you feel temporarily euphoric and thus allow you to be more productive or think clearer.

It's all about using delusion to be more productive, it's no different that the freaks who talk in tongues, handle snakes or get slapped on the forehead by a faith healer ... with some pseudo psychobabble thrown in to try and legitimize it.

Most people can be happy and productive without diluting themselves and living in a trance, others need a crutch like drugs, gambling, highly emotion charged relationships, or a good old fashion Scientology circle jerk to stimulate neurotransmitters enough to get them moving.

The bottom line is Hubbard's OT non-sense is nothing but trying to convince yourself and others that Hubbard's Tech has given you powers than other do not have. If you succeeded in convincing yourself in the fairy tail of OT powers, then you have gotten all there is to get out of it.
 

archetypes

Patron with Honors
I ordered Bill Nichol's Unstacking book on GPMs from a source in California back in 1991. It made complete sense but I was not set up as needed to run it clean. Has anyone seen this book? I didn't succeed in finishing that either.

Regarding others creating others in the game:
David Pennell in Ft Lauderdale used to use a circular flow process to resolve stuck beingness and flows. He was very enlightened ... doing things this way. Some processing questions: "Who created you that way?" "From where did they create you (it) that way?" "With how much force or power did they use to create...thay way?" "When were you created that way." "From what direction did they..." Of course at first these are all the clients perceptions. Receiving processing on this back in 1989 I realized how reciprocal games are. Instead of erroneously setting myself up as the SOURCE always (which is sometimes not true) I got to see how things are actually created and contributed to.. THEN the releases come easier. This was a big deal for me as I believed I created everything....had been the sole cause. Only spotting the contributions of others on some of the persistent charges did the ball unravel.
At first with this process, I thought I was carrying a lot of 'unqualified theta' that had been cleared of its fixed beingness on the Grades but hadn't blown. I felt I was being used a a graffiti board for others who were coming up in horsepower and needed to impress their intentions and images onto me. I regarded this as my personal malady and wanted to use NOTS quick to purge myself. But in running how others created me this way or that way I got the true AS-ISNESS by connection to the actual being and his viewpoint at the time he projected that identity onto (for) me. (objective.) This worked easier than my trying to erase my impression of what I was subtly agreeing with as I protested what I felt was "etched" on my theta. (subjective) It is more empowering. I who navigate this life in a state of relatlively mediocre ARC found at this time a real return of it! :happydance:. This return of ARC was unexpected. I got no returns of ARC on OT III as claimed to by others, but this was different!

I did not understand everything you said but I found it very interesting. I always give more attention to those who speak from what they actually experienced in their processing -- who are actually using a tech. I'm curious, did you happen to reach the State of Clear running any certain processes?
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Hubbard's Tech has never been about actually "Doing" anything, it has always been about making yourself "Believe" you are doing something and convincing others you are doing something, it's a con game, but this con game does have some temporary benefits. The belief stimulates neurotransmitters in your brain which make you feel temporarily euphoric and thus allow you to be more productive or think clearer.

It's all about using delusion to be more productive, it's no different that the freaks who talk in tongues, handle snakes or get slapped on the forehead by a faith healer ... with some pseudo psychobabble thrown in to try and legitimize it.

Most people can be happy and productive without diluting themselves and living in a trance, others need a crutch like drugs, gambling, highly emotion charged relationships, or a good old fashion Scientology circle jerk to stimulate neurotransmitters enough to get them moving.

The bottom line is Hubbard's OT non-sense is nothing but trying to convince yourself and others that Hubbard's Tech has given you powers than other do not have. If you succeeded in convincing yourself in the fairy tail of OT powers, then you have gotten all there is to get out of it.
I couldn't agree more. It's a role playing game that went too far. It's all fantasy.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I couldn't agree less: I was only playing a role as a staff member. When auditing or being audited, there was no role-playing for me. I was either trying to help someone else, or get help myself. I got a lot out of BOTH of those, and so did the people I worked with.

Whatever else happened, that did.
 
I couldn't agree less: I was only playing a role as a staff member. When auditing or being audited, there was no role-playing for me. I was either trying to help someone else, or get help myself. I got a lot out of BOTH of those, and so did the people I worked with.

Whatever else happened, that did.

So while you were in the cult, you didn't pretend that everything was simple wonderful, your life as a Scientologist was so much better that everyone outside the cult, and all these imaginary states and conditions which Hubbard fabricated existed and were obtainable?
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I suspended disbelief about states. I didn't pretend they existed, I studied the possibility. I didn't pretend about the quality of my life, I was struggling, and everyone knew it. Perhaps this is why I am no longer a scientologist, and why they declared me: no pretense.
 
I suspended disbelief about states. I didn't pretend they existed, I studied the possibility. I didn't pretend about the quality of my life, I was struggling, and everyone knew it. Perhaps this is why I am no longer a scientologist, and why they declared me: no pretense.

Fair enough, but you did say you couldn't agree less, and now you are saying your refusal to pretend is probably why you are no longer a Scientologist.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Uniquemand, I do not understand you and what is more I do not want to understand you. I don't really wish to be a jackass, but I guess I might be. Exactly what is so great about auditing? It is a trap pure and simple.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Roger,

Well I have finally had the time to go through tis thread and watch your presentation on the You-tubes. Thank you for it. It is certainly most interesting. Please allo me to make a few comments.

1. The big shift point you mentyioned on the first video - where the guy goes down the Tone Scale and he has this massive crisis (I can't remember the exact words you used for it) could be viewed better by recognising that as a person goes downscale in his chronic emotion he is, in parallel, going down the Ethics conditons. Mary Freeman's work is extremely valuable in sorting these out. Clearly when a guy goes down from pursuing his own survival into attemtping to destroy others there is a Ethics drop of him going through Doubt and into Enemy and below. These scales should all be studied and used in conjunction with each other.

2. You mention: "My focus then shifted to unsticking these Beings from what they were hung up in. Routinely, I began addressing them with a question that addressed their ongoing or hung-up purpose and/or intention. Depending on the mood/emotional level of the Being the question asked as the process for them was: “What intention or purpose are you pursuing?” or “What intention or purpose are you hung-up in or dramatizing?”

What I find interesting here is that this is pretty damn close to what Bill Robertson did in Excalibur. You find out what "hat" the fella is wearing, and you sort all of that out. The intention comes before the beingness of course, and so your version is probably a tad better in this regard, though recognising the beingness is important too. There are other possibilities here too.

And 3. I've read a few versions of how the GPM tech "ought" to be done, as well as a huge study of the available materials on what LRH wrote and spoke on the subject. My iew is that the most best by far, the simplest, most obvious, most clarifying, etc etc etc is the write-ups done by Dennis Stephens in what he calls TROM. It embraces every other version I have seen and goes much deeper down to basic simplicities. So I recommend that.

Vinaire has suggested that TROM is a comparable datum to Scientology itself, it reaches far beond it in scope and application, and is far simpler too. So that is what keeps me busy these days.

cheers.
 

Mystic

Crusader
Bodhisattva Vow: "I assume responsibility for the freedom of all sentient beings."

Believing in the "tech", the "admin" or the "ethsucks" of Lips Hubbard greatly retards sentience.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
I did not understand everything you said but I found it very interesting. I always give more attention to those who speak from what they actually experienced in their processing -- who are actually using a tech. I'm curious, did you happen to reach the State of Clear running any certain processes?

Check your PMs :coolwink:
 

RogerB

Crusader
I did not understand everything you said but I found it very interesting. I always give more attention to those who speak from what they actually experienced in their processing -- who are actually using a tech. I'm curious, did you happen to reach the State of Clear running any certain processes?
Archetypes, this is an earlier post of mine that answers your question.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=217560#post217560

The issue, really, is clear what? Or clear of what?

What happened in the session noted above was that I became free from being effect of and overwhelmed by certain aspects of "case" or recorded past experience.

Rog
 

RogerB

Crusader
Nice Lucid Response

This is fascinating to me Roger, and quite helpful. Having arrived a bit later on the scene, I have some differing viewpoints on some of this, but am greatly appreciative of your time and effort to write this up and share it with us.

"The abberration above time is that 'there must be a game'".
I think this was in the PDC's.
LRH also talked about responsibility and basic purpose in Advanced Procedures and Axioms.

Thetans playing the game of "life" can be pan-determined, self-determined, other-determined or delusional, which aligns fully with your published scale.

One of the control mechanisms in this corner of this galaxy has been to overwhelm beings with false purposes and false terminals as a method of getting them to leave areas and stay away. Hubbard postulated that it would take 'a billion years' to clean up this sector, such was his estimation of the effort needed to restore beings to the point of self-determinism, much less pan-determinism. I think part of what he missed is that as beings, we have become so inured to having the "game" mocked up this way that we compulsively keep it in place. But along the lines of "full responsibility" we had to agree to it in the first place.

The tone scale, to me, is just a reflection of the degradation and emotions contained in the Implant GPM's. The "cross-over" point was installed, in part to convince beings that they COULD NOT do anything forever. (Which they can, as LRH pointed out in the over-run material.)

Further, the point of "reverse rocket reads' is interesting to me as well.
The only action I know of that takes reads like that in Scn is C\S Series 37R, which is a part of L-11. L-11 is usually the shortest L, but also the most 'spectacular' in terms of effect on a person. It was only after I received that L that this whole area of 'implant GPMs' and 'actual GPMs' came apart. It is not unusual for me to find other types of implant GPM's than the ones LRH described in his materials in beings I run across in solo. But just like you described, all the implant GPM degradation and games are just substitutes for earlier, bigger games and 'matrices'.

On NOT's, you may recall that there is a "Flow Assessment Rundown". And in the issue that describes that Rundown, it is pointed out that stuck flows are the genus of Bt's and out-int. These vectors, where we went into alignment with other beings (or opposed other beings, depending upon the tine level of the game), are the remnant ridges of old games, when we were bigger and more powerful (and in some cases way less intelligent!)
To me, these flows are the "make-break" point between life as an ascendant game, and life as a dwindling spiral.

And of course, each beings spiral is different, so above the level of MEST (and all the degradation involved) each beings unfolding will be different.
Which is why I say that the CoS can not deliver or support solo auditors at that level. They can't handle that much truth!

Thanks again Rog!

Nice lucid response Divvy. :yes:

Thanks. It should help others who are interested.

I don't remember the "Flow Assessment R/D" on NOTs you refer to. I did NOTs quite early on, so it's possible that got added after my escapade with it:whistling:

Rog
 

RogerB

Crusader
You're Allowed :)

Hi Roger,

Well I have finally had the time to go through tis thread and watch your presentation on the You-tubes. Thank you for it. It is certainly most interesting. Please allo me to make a few comments.

Snipped . . . . .

cheers.

Leon,

You're allowed, Mate. Your comments and responses are always well reasoned, responsible and lucid. :yes: And, or course, intended to contribute to the well being of others and to help.:)

And yours above continue in that vein.

Rog
 

RogerB

Crusader
It's NOT's series 28, dated 4 Oct 78.

You might be able to find it on WikiLeaks... https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Scientology_cult_New_Era_Dianetics_for_Operating_Thetans

Thanks, Divvy.

I found the HCOB. It is not one I had ever read that I recall. I was not trained as a NOTs Auditor. Only for solo NOTs. The issue contains some useful stuff.

What I have found in some of my very recent sessions is some spiritual teammates hung up in dramatizing intentions that are long, long ago solutions to a prblem scenario or other unwanted:yes:

Example, this from yesterday's session. The intention: "To be here and to limit and protect self." And that "limit" notion was in the context of making self small so as to be out of the way of what it did not want to experience.

Errr, ummm, that was rather good to clean up:yes:

The handling was to have the S. Teammate repeat the intention as per my note in the presentation. Thus, the condition the S. TM was stuck in evaporated. :happydance:

Rog
 
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