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The Tone Scale

Discussion in 'Grundy's Guide to Scientology' started by grundy, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I have really found the value of this since I first started reading your posts.

    It's the resistance to fully experiencing the emotion that causes problems.

    After leaving, I had to learn to cry. Crying was not acceptable, done in private and hidden. (And also not fully experienced as there usually wasn't time! :melodramatic: ) The same for any of the "lower emotions". There is so much inherent in the doctine to stop you experiencing emotions, unless in the sanctioned and controlled environment of a session. ie No case on post/no HE&R/ don't dramatise/don't be a DB/don't be downtone and pull others down and on and on.

    I have posted this before - when I first allowed myself to experience grief fully, I cried on and off for 3 weeks, no kidding. I walked around with a towel over my shoulder as I ran out of tissues. I allowed myself the freedom to feel, on my own terms, without supervision or judgement. It changed my life.

    I have found it's the same for any emotion - higher or lower. FEEL IT, experience it in the moment, don't resist it and voila! Life flows in a totally different way. Strange as it may seem, the word "magnificent" does apply indeed. :happydance:

    It can take practice. A few days ago I was terribly upset about something and cried and cried. After 24 hours I wondered when it would ever end and doubted it would. Thankfully I knew from past experience to not resist and try to block it all off, keep observing and experiencing - and suddenly it was all gone. I can barely remember what on earth was so upsetting! By removing the stigma of "lower" then grief or whatever is just something else to be experienced.

    (I've found it advisable to also warn anyone in my environment of what I am doing so they don't take it personally or worry too much. Now they don't get upset if I have an angry spat or crying binge because they know I will be my usual sunny self again soon, and sometimes a tad wiser as well. :))
  2. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Resistance to an emotion is not necessarily unique to scientology. Most people I've worked with or talked to aren't particularly willing to experience grief, but when encouraged to fully experience it, do experience joy after fully experiencing the grief. Both being kept out of an emotion, or stuck in an emotion, are forms of emotional prison.
  3. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Over-simplified bollocks! :confused2:

    So the tone scale is "purely arbitrary"? If you'd ever audited anyone you'd see it in action - and not because Hubbard told you so or that you believed you would.

    For the less intelligent or the traumatised, one might excuse the urge for a black-and-white view on the matter, but you should know better Zinj! :melodramatic:

    The enemy is the Church not the auditing tech (green-on-white may be another matter).

    I still love you Zinj! :yes: :happydance: :D
  4. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Gomorrhan, you are right, of course. I'm just saying that Hubbard's tech supported that unwillingeness to experience emotions/life.

    His infatuation with labelling and grading the labelled things acted as an inval and eval. That's simply all I'm saying.

    Tansy, like I said, I saw that movement through the "human" tone levels when auditing PCs too just like in DMSMH, so there is some validity in that. The numbers Hubbard assigned to them is arbitrary nonsense, of course. And his below death, thetan emotions is manipulative, with the effect of spinning the students into a confusion over what they really feel.

    The tone-scale gets students to try to label themselves and confuses them with mysterious evaluations about below death "real" tone levels that are largely un-recognised by the student. This deliberate confusion is sowed by LRH specifically so that the confused student will assign LRH as their stable datum.

    I can still remember the specific momemnt of confusion that he sowed in my understanding. I knew the human tone scale, understood it and had seen it in operation. One day I was shown the "expanded" tone scale and that thetans have a tone below zero. I can still remember the confusion, :confused2: the intoversion and the mystery of what my "real" tone was. Hubbard understood the prior confusion theory and was using it to confuse us over an unknown, unhandlable tone dilemma in order to suck us in to his cult and adopt "mankind's greatest friend" as our stable datum. This is Black Scientology and is what Hubbard did with all his tech.

    His Science of Survival attributes assigned to tone levels is an invalidation because, of course, most of us have some of those "low-toned" attributes some of the time. This code break of his invalidated, introverted and created a dependency on Scientology as the "only" tech to resolve these people's now understood to be low-toned "case".

    It was deliberately done by Hubbard to make men his slaves and for him to acquire material things. Some people stood up to him in 1950/51, so he kidnapped his child and in a drunken stupour blasted them with his Science of Survival code breaks.

    Tansy, you said "For the less intelligent or the traumatised, one might excuse the urge for a black-and-white view on the matter, but you should know better Zinj!" just be careful you are not adopting an LRH Black magic spell that he has put there to boost your ego and invalidate "wogs" and critics! :wink2:
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
  5. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Tone Scale..? - A 'tool' that scientologists use to read and manipulate others? - The nugget of knowledge, or implant, that being low-toned is HE&R and evidence of insanity lurking in your 'Reactive Mind'. A persuasive argument for a scientologist to wear a perpetual goofy grin. To avoid showing Bad Indicators, BI's, which is even less socially acceptable than BO's...

    That's what I understood about it.. As applied in the GO and amongst fellow staff and scilons.

    So.. I wondered if Hubbard had a certain 'attitude' when writing up that 'Tone Scale'? - What was his interest? What did he want?

    Seems to me he wanted 'loyalty' to his 'project'. Like all warlords and 'despotic leaders' in all history did...

    So the Tone Scale is for evaluating someones reaction or mindset about Scientology and Hubbard. And for persuasion to become more loyal...

  6. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    You've said it so well, Schwimm! :thumbsup:
  7. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Yes the numbers are arbitrary, and possibly misleading.
    I don't have an opinion on the tones below 0.0 since I have no practical experience with them on self or others. I've experienced some pretty grim days and all of them seemed at 0.0 or above. The amplitude of the energy wave (emotion) is as much a factor as anything, e.g., very strong boredom can be excruciating.

    The fact that use of the tone scale is abused in CoS makes it no less of a valuable tool in auditing and in life.

    Perhaps there is insufficient emphasis on differentiating between the thetan's tone and the thetan-plus-body tone. I've never kidded myself that I could spot the thetan-only tone.

    I work on the general principle that the higher a person is on the tone scale the (generally) more honest and productive they are. All those attributes never interested me and look a little specious.


    I don't need to be careful, I know my own mind and I call it as I see it.
    Are there still vestiges of CoS indoctrination in my mindset - possibly.

    I both like and respect Zinj. In this particular instance I think he's talking bollocks. I'm attacking his idea not the man.

    You might care to look at how many of your own comments are ostensibly efforts to introvert(?). :)

    My main point is this: The principle problem of the Church is fanaticism - they know what is right for everyone. It's all black and white. If we are to evaluate CoS, Hubbard and the tech in order to learn from our mistakes and prevent future injustices we need to take a balanced look. Two wrongs don't make a right and they never will.


  8. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well done Tansy, good reply, keep re-evaluating your ideas.

    The only thing I would take issue with you is where you say the CofS uses the tone scale abusively. Yes they do, but my point is that Hubbard did so and taught scientologists to do the same. Some say this shows I'm fixated on LRH, but I maintain that exact cause and source of the CofS abuse is necessary to understand the enigma that is the CofS.

    I'm willing to learn too. Please give an example where I have ostensibly introverted. I do try to get us all to re-evaluate what Hubbard told us, but I wouldn't want to introvert people. So please tell me where I have done so or if I do so in the future. And I will correct or explain whatever it was that I said. :)
  9. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Okay LH, that's a fair point.
    I think we're just coming at this from slightly different angles.
    My main concern is how the tech can be salvaged from CoS and be used to help, where help is wanted. No hidden agenda or ulterior motive.
    I don't want to see the tech baby thrown out with the LRH/CoS bath water.

    I don't want to see any groups with some "Clear the Planet" goal. Gawd 'elp us. I'd like to see a loosely affiliated network of individuals and small groups who honestly present what they have to offer and who allow those interested to partake at fair rates of exchange.

    Well, I don't want introvert you about efforts to introvert others! :)
    It was a suggestion, not an accusation, and I hope it was taken as such.

    There was one issue we discussed by PM a little while back, which I think we handled to mutual satisfaction. I think where certainty is lacking over the meaning or intentions of another, then it is best addressed on PM lines.
    I don't have any issues with you LH. We local boys need to stick together! :yes:


  10. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I like your style Tansy, and I agree with most of what you have to say about tech. Some people tend to invalidate what is useful along with what is not useful.

    The key datum that got totally clarified to me by Scientology is AS-ISNESS. If there is any jewel buried under a lot of muck, this is it.

    All considerations are additive to the being. If one can see this then one will return to the native state.

  11. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Hey Vinay

    Yes, As-isness is a key, if not the key, datum.

    Since there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of as-isness going on in this place at this time, the key then seems to be finding the gradient to as-ising.

    I mean to take a closer look at this, but for the time being, any process or (just as importantly) drill to increase one's willingness and ability to handle the following factors, is going in the right direction:

    experience (all flows)

    52-55 seems to have been the period where Scn could most honestly be described as an "applied religious philosopy": the PDC, the Phoenix lectures, etc. At this time, there were more drills and there was creative processing.

    I don't know the reasons why creative processing was dropped. It seems a shame. Trying to as-is an object in this old, decrepit, solid, alter-ised universe is as out-gradient as you can get and sets us up for loses. The gradient is 1. Create, maintain, destroy and SCS in one's own universe, 2. As 1. but in space jointly mocked up with another............ you see where I'm going.
  12. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tansy, I understand your desire to salvage workable tech.

    I don't know if this happens to everybody, but for me I spent ten or more years trying to work out what was workable in Hubbard's tech. There are tantalising glimpses of pure workable tech, but for me this was so often tempered with disappointing realisations of how even the "good" stuff was laced with Hubbard's black magic trap.

    Nowadays I wonder if the solution to this problem is to ditch the whole of Scn? I did this and then was amazed to find that other workable techniques did exist in the areas that LRH told us were dangerous, squirrel, SP zones. Until I ditched scn I never saw these alternatives!

    For example the Sedona Method contains a perfectly workable technology using a scale of emotions. Holosync theory contains workable technology for experiencing emotions without resistence. There are scientific theories/discoveries about "open systems" and this can be related to the "tone-scale"

    What I am saying is that knowledge of Hubbard's "tech", but not using any of it, opens up understanding and application of other non-cult techniques. I suppose what John Galusha and Mike Goldstein have done is perhaps an example of this. They seem to have de-constructed Scn tech, abandoned it and developed new techniques from their experience of Scn tech.

    I think Idenics would be a tremendously good "fit" for you Tansy! How's that for an evaluation! :D

    My opinion is that trying to pick out the workable from the mind-trap aspects of Hubbard's tech is probably impossible. I think old Ronnie set it up that way on purpose. So one solution for this is to ditch all of it! Yippee! That is incredibly liberating!

    Suddenly judgement is possible about it once one has recogonised that the whole subject was a trap! This is a paradox, but in my experience this is what happens. Whereas trying to sift the tech seems to leave one confused and unable to use the "tech". In my opinion that is what Ron wanted to create while he created his slaves.

    PS, please do tell me if you think anything I say has the effect of introverting anyone. De-programming the hubbard cult-think is sometimes painful.

    I am not perfect and when I try to puncture people's Hubbard stable data I would want to know if any of that is introverting. By introverting I mean spinning inwards into confusion. This is not the same as self-examination, which I believe is necessary to de-program the effects of the cult.

    You can monitor me Tansy. I will always consider your criticism.
  13. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    I see lots of as-ising going on "in this place"! :D

    ESMB provides a platform for viewing the exact creation of the cult. Once the creation by Hubbard is viewed, and our own creation of it is viewed, it ceases to exist. The more exactly his and our creation is viewed the more it tends to as-is.
  14. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    LH - thanks for that.

    I am very interested in other tech and will be one of the first to order Mike's book on Idenics when it comes out. I'm reading one of Alan's books at the moment.

    Personally, I like Byron Katie's method and that is what I would use if someone came to me with just one issue they wanted help with.

    It's good that people have choices in the spiritual development/personal improvement field. I'd like to see Scn as one of those choices. I've had auditing from 2 people in the FZ and it was a joy to employ the tech free of agendas, efforts to control, etc. It can be done.

    We're all unique (except Alanzo :)) and have our own paths/interests to follow. I wouldn't have it any other way. As soon as I hear anyone say that their's is the only true way, I run a mile! :yes:
  15. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Good post! :thumbsup:

    I was, of course, talking about the degree of objective reality as-isness that makes traffic wardens disappear! :D
  16. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I see it clearly.

    The key is to clearly differentiate between one's universe and the MEST universe (which includes the body). When people are focusing on handling the body with current "spiritual technology," that is clearly out-gradient and leads to losses and succumbing to the MEST technology.

    MEST technology has its usefulness and should not be downgraded. MEST technology simply provides a holding action till one can handle MEST with spiritual technology. Spiritual technology has a long way to go. There is a lot of development needed here.

    I like IDENICS approach. I shall be off for IDENICS training in a couple of weeks.

  17. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Excellent. Please let us know how you get on with that. I'm very interested.
  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Actually, Hubbard said that there's nothing wrong with feeling grief or anger or whatever if the situation is one that would prompt such feelings. He said, in fact, that this would NOT be aberrated and that it's normal to go up and down the tone scale.

    His thing with talking about people at this or that tone scale position was - what is the chronic tone scale position? Are they generally angry almost all the time? Generally apathetic? Cheerful? Etc.

    So, no, I think he did a GREAT job with the tone scale and I think that what he truly said about going up and down the tone scale and chronic vs temporary tone scale position gets omitted from critical discourse far too often and that this is misleading.

    Oh, and I'm going to make another observation that I'm sure will please oh so many people here since, of course, I'm not ever supposed to say anything against critics. :p many times do critics who supposedly are oh so enlightened about the Hubbardite mindfuck go on and on about the tone scale position of such Scn'ists as who are ever so lucky as to be discussing things with them? Happens a lot. So yeah, lots of labelling going on. It's a two edged sword.
  19. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    Another word.

    MISEMOTION: having emotions that would be irrational for the circumstances at hand. Feeling enthusiastic at the death of a friend would be just as much a misemotion as the church's emotion of hate when someone says "I don't agree with you."

    And Fluffy, you make a point that I should have stressed more. It is considered rational and sane for a person to move up and down the tone scale. Irrationality is being "stuck" at one level. Life progesses, it moves forward. To try to handle EVERYTHING "enthusiastically" is just as insane or abnormal or neurotic or whatever as being "apathetic" about everything.
  20. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes but we have to differentiate between what Hubbard said as regards the tone scale and what he did.

    He didn't allow for labelled souls to move "up" and "down" the scale. He fixed them with his labels. "Theety weety", "DB" "1.1" "Suppressive".

    He conveniently invented the concept of "chronic" level, negating the original discovery of movement through the emotions. Then he invented below death emotions to mystery sandwich his slaves.

    Who on here can say that the tone scale wasn't used as a weapon to invalidate and evaluate? My contention is that Hubbard taught us slaves to do this in order to further his evil enslavery affirmation.