The Truth about Debbie Cook as Captain of Flag

[Edwardo]

Get another hobby. How about 18th Century literature?

I read a great article recently about the value of being able to become interested in such pursuits:

http://takimag.com/article/entertainment_surfeit_disorder_theodore_dalrymple

 

[Boomima]

I would like DB to summarize every argument on these boards.

 

[BunnySkull]

I find it odd when someone attacks one person in the odd belief it defends another - or proves some sort of point.

Anybody who doesn't believe child molestation was rampant in the SO at both Flag and in LA, with SO executives protecting predators and punishing victims, is an ostritch with their head ass deep in the sand. the stories are sadly numerous and those are just the ones who have spoken up, I have no doubt there is a veritable army of silent victims as well.

Almost all controlling cults that have children as part of their system have this problem, because adults have access to very gullible, easy to manipulate kids and so many cults are either very sexually repressive or overtly sexual (see Children of God). In fact, some predators join cults for this very reason - easy access to minors with systematic rejection of outside legal entities.

The ban on children in the SO may very well have stemmed from the problem of sex abuse - that and having to "care" for non-working humans. The cult would not have cared a whit about protecting kids, but lord knows they do care about legal and PR flaps and ESP in the 90s the sexual abuse of children becoming a public issue would have been their worst nightmare.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Lulu Belle, I was alway curious about a guy at AOLA named Steve Miller. He was non-SO, but was the Qual Sec at AO for years...

Or was he just Qual staff? Anyway he worked at AO and did so for many years....

I roomed with him when I first got to LA in 1983, and know he was paid well enough to have his own apartment and a car...thought he lived a frugal life. I stayed at his place for several years, until he married a girl named Astrid, that had been staff at the San Francisco org, and had to move out of his apartment.

Steve was never the Qual Sec. He was a Cram Off. He wasn't SO so technically he couldn't cram NOTs auditors (don't know whether he did or not; Karen DLC may be able to answer that). But he was a Class VIII so he was able to do most of the cramming in the org.

Steve's wife Astrid was an NSO (non Sea Org) auditor. I think she may have been a Class VIII too; I'm not totally sure. She audited in the Div 4 HGC (the "regular" HGC as opposed to the Solo HGC or the NOTs HGC).

I don't remember Astrid ever not being there when Steve was there but I'm not totally sure. Don't remember them having kids either.

Steve managed to hang in there through all the shit the NSO were put through. He and Susan Soloman were the last two to go, from what I recall. The org was ordered by management to get rid of all of the non-Sea Org staff; I think it was around 1990. That's when he finally left.

 

[hpm1999]

To be picked as an exec, and to STAY an exec, you had to give your seniors what they wanted. The ones who survived as execs were the ones who could make themselves operate with complete ruthlessness towards staff and public, if that's what it took to get the results which made their seniors happy. Keep in mind, also, that being ruthless whip-wielders was something that was demanded all the way up to LRH's level. LRH openly expressed contempt, in HCOPLs, towards execs who were "worker oriented". To be accused of being "worker oriented"(being more concerned with the welfare of your juniors than with getting the stat) was a kiss of death to a manager in Scn. Many thus would feel they had to go out of their way to demonstrate they were not "worker oriented".

A toxic environment produces toxic behavior. Removal from the environment can revert the behavior.

As an extreme example, I've known several wonderful guys, great to hang out with, warm and sensitive. They also have each killed multiple people without hesitation. They were in the military at the time, so it was all fine. You do what you have to do to survive.

Concur- unless one became a "Pig" ala Animal Farm one was doomed it seems

 

[Lulu Belle]

"

What is a "snapshot" to you is the best part of someone else's life. What I mean by that is that - for example, you see that Debbie cook was meanly treated in the hole. And you somehow think this balances out 10 years of dictatorial behavior as CO FSO. ten FUCKING YEARS. People on staff in the FSO denied libs, given substandard food - while making over a million dollars a week in income - put on half pay as "punishment" or "rice and beans" the list is endless - and she was over it all and living the good life. And yes, she got some rough treatment at the end but nothing compared to what she dished out. And throughout it all - had she felt in the least troubled by what was happening she could have stood up for it - she could have taken a first class ticket out of Tampa to pretty much anywhere she damned well pleased. SHE CHOSE NOT TO. Please, when you get into this argument understand this simple fact - SHE CHOSE TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

Actually, worse than that.

She was the CO FSO for 17 years.

 

[Anonycat]

"John Snow, you know NOTHING" to quote a recently famous character.

Seriously - you have never been in - and yet you claim to know what being in an organization like the FSO for over a decade is like? You have absolutely no idea what it means for someone like Cook to buy a sports car from the money she made from the public while her staff got by on $50 a week or less. it is GOOD that you do not know what this means. it is weapons grade ignorance to pretend that you have any idea what it means.

What is a "snapshot" to you is the best part of someone else's life. What I mean by that is that - for example, you see that Debbie cook was meanly treated in the hole. And you somehow think this balances out 10 years of dictatorial behavior as CO FSO. ten FUCKING YEARS. People on staff in the FSO denied libs, given substandard food - while making over a million dollars a week in income - put on half pay as "punishment" or "rice and beans" the list is endless - and she was over it all and living the good life. And yes, she got some rough treatment at the end but nothing compared to what she dished out. And throughout it all - had she felt in the least troubled by what was happening she could have stood up for it - she could have taken a first class ticket out of Tampa to pretty much anywhere she damned well pleased. SHE CHOSE NOT TO. Please, when you get into this argument understand this simple fact - SHE CHOSE TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

You may think you have a grasp of things because you have read stuff here or on OCMB or Ortegas blog And, believe it or not - I appreciate, very much indeed, your efforts. But it is impossible for you to do so. Because while the phrase "ten years" takes a second or two to read and understand - it takes a 7th of a biblical lifetime to experience.

So your perspective on Debbie Cook is flawed and you have got it wrong from the very start.

I never expected anything else from her other than to grasp, meanly and cynically, for as much of the ill gotten gains as she could possibly get. And that is what she did. That a bunch of twats who had been caressing themselves about how she was going to destroy DM and all the rest of it was just living proof that many exes never quite lose the whole magical thinking thing we had going in Scientology.



Well OK - but if you post on threads with the mistaken ideas that you have been doing - expect me to respond. It is not that I don;t wish you to have your own view - and I am incredibly happy for you that your view is untainted with any experience of having been in that awful organization - it is that I would like people outside of out conversation to understand that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to being in the SO or Scientology.



goo advice - you should follow it.

Okay, as much as I generally dislike loooong posts that I should respond to, I just saw this and wanted to give you something.

Since I was young, about 10 years old, I have been exposed to scientology. One of my close friends was an older guy who was a messenger. The one I mentioned who was cowering while Ron beat Roos in Hubbard's room on the ship. I have other personal friends who were on the ship with Ron. Yes, I do read the Bunker, and once saw docs there about my second friend. He held a lot of high posts, and when he left the Apollo, went into the hypnotism business. You may have noticed over a long period, I occasionally post something like that. Or that I knew Astrid. Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? And like I said, this was decades ago, not friends from here or another forum. Since before the internet. Since I was a kid.

Yes, I only did the comm course when I was a kid, and that's only because someone paid for it, and asked me if I'd try it. The kid who asked me was a teen girl, a classmate who was in a relationship with a male staff member. Yeah, that's rape where I live. But, that wasn't even when my exposure to the cult started.

If you want to PM me, I'll tell you why I feel my perspective is of value. Other than that, kindly get off my back or block me. I will consider taking the goo advice.

 

[JustSheila]

Anonycat, Mick also said:

well this may be hard to believe after the roundabout we have just been on - but I do know that you are one of the good people Anonycat.

Some days I am tired and crabby.

 

[Anonycat]

Anonycat, Mick also said:

I did see that previously, and enjoyed it. But I just saw the other post, and thought I should reply with something.

 

[Purple Rain]

Okay, as much as I generally dislike loooong posts that I should respond to, I just saw this and wanted to give you something.

Since I was young, about 10 years old, I have been exposed to scientology. One of my close friends was an older guy who was a messenger. The one I mentioned who was cowering while Ron beat Roos in Hubbard's room on the ship. I have other personal friends who were on the ship with Ron. Yes, I do read the Bunker, and once saw docs there about my second friend. He held a lot of high posts, and when he left the Apollo, went into the hypnotism business. You may have noticed over a long period, I occasionally post something like that. Or that I knew Astrid. Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? And like I said, this was decades ago, not friends from here or another forum. Since before the internet. Since I was a kid.

Yes, I only did the comm course when I was a kid, and that's only because someone paid for it, and asked me if I'd try it. The kid who asked me was a teen girl, a classmate who was in a relationship with a male staff member. Yeah, that's rape where I live. But, that wasn't even when my exposure to the cult started.

If you want to PM me, I'll tell you why I feel my perspective is of value. Other than that, kindly get off my back or block me. I will consider taking the goo advice.

So you've basically been involved with it since you were Anonykitten!

 

[Anonycat]

So you've basically been involved with it since you were Anonykitten!

Yep. My skin has burned with niacin overdose before I hit my teens.

 

[JustSheila]

Anonycat, I agree with Mick that only those who spent some real time in the SO would truly understand the inside workings of the mind of an ex-SO Exec. Not someone who spent a few months on the EPF and left, even, but someone who lived it.

In that sense, we are the peers, the equals.

Even contracted staff in orgs behaved a bit differently. Though there are similarities, I've learned since being on ESMB that the mindset was different enough that it's best that those who were there speak for themselves.

Your knowledge and peripheral, objective view from not being in provides the outside perspective that we don't always have. Both are necessary, but the perspectives will still always be from either the inside or outside, and for those who left, some blend of both.

 

[Leland]

Anonycat, I agree with Mick that only those who spent some real time in the SO would truly understand the inside workings of the mind of an ex-SO Exec. Not someone who spent a few months on the EPF and left, even, but someone who lived it.

In that sense, we are the peers, the equals.

Even contracted staff in orgs behaved a bit differently. Though there are similarities, I've learned since being on ESMB that the mindset was different enough that it's best that those who were there speak for themselves.

Your knowledge and peripheral, objective view from not being in provides the outside perspective that we don't always have. Both are necessary, but the perspectives will still always be from either the inside or outside, and for those who left, some blend of both.

I know and realize that ESMB is mainly former SO......BUT, I must say, it does piss me off that "PUBLIC" (as we thought we were called...lol) are routinely set aside here....

 

[Intentionally Blank]

What if it was about me? How many of you would jump all over me based solely on some anonymous post claiming to have dox about all my crimes while I was in Scientology? I'm out in the open under my own name and am totally open to an attack just like this. I would hope that if it comes, all of you would see through it and know that it's just so much BS.

Dude. If someone posted this kind of rant about you, I would totally throw you under the bus......

 

[Anonycat]

Anonycat, I agree with Mick that only those who spent some real time in the SO would truly understand the inside workings of the mind of an ex-SO Exec. Not someone who spent a few months on the EPF and left, even, but someone who lived it.

In that sense, we are the peers, the equals.

Even contracted staff in orgs behaved a bit differently. Though there are similarities, I've learned since being on ESMB that the mindset was different enough that it's best that those who were there speak for themselves.

Your knowledge and peripheral, objective view from not being in provides the outside perspective that we don't always have. Both are necessary, but the perspectives will still always be from either the inside or outside, and for those who left, some blend of both.

Just for the record, I have never, ever, said that I understand the inside workings of the mind of a SO member. Dox, please. Seriously. I have been looking at this for over 40 years. Please, someone, illuminate my real shortcomings. How many loved ones ripped up for how many years does it take to have a worthy opinion?

 

[JustSheila]

I know and realize that ESMB is mainly former SO......BUT, I must say, it does piss me off that "PUBLIC" (as we thought we were called...lol) are routinely set aside here....

I'm not sure of ESMB's makeup, but I don't think so.

You would have seen the actual Execs in action but more objectively, the effects of their actions on you as public or how we looked to you, a view we also don't have and need very much.

You would know more about many consequences, too.

I am only referring to the view way, way deep inside. What the Exec actually THOUGHT. The rest, well, you and Anonycat know from the info available.

 

[BunnySkull]

I know and realize that ESMB is mainly former SO......BUT, I must say, it does piss me off that "PUBLIC" (as we thought we were called...lol) are routinely set aside here....

Hey, Consider yourself lucky, I'd rather feel set aside on an Internet forum than to have lost years of my life to the CoS as a slave worked half to death and fed rice & beans.

 

[Purple Rain]

Yep. My skin has burned with niacin overdose before I hit my teens.

Oh, I lol'd that then went, wait, no, un-lol, un-lol.... It sounded like a joke at first, but thinking about it, that's awful.

 

[wazn]

Astrid was a Class VIII, from years back.

Steve was never the Qual Sec. He was a Cram Off. He wasn't SO so technically he couldn't cram NOTs auditors (don't know whether he did or not; Karen DLC may be able to answer that). But he was a Class VIII so he was able to do most of the cramming in the org.

Steve's wife Astrid was an NSO (non Sea Org) auditor. I think she may have been a Class VIII too; I'm not totally sure. She audited in the Div 4 HGC (the "regular" HGC as opposed to the Solo HGC or the NOTs HGC).

I don't remember Astrid ever not being there when Steve was there but I'm not totally sure. Don't remember them having kids either.

Steve managed to hang in there through all the shit the NSO were put through. He and Susan Soloman were the last two to go, from what I recall. The org was ordered by management to get rid of all of the non-Sea Org staff; I think it was around 1990. That's when he finally left.

 

[JustSheila]

Just for the record, I have never, ever, said that I understand the inside workings of the mind of a SO member. Dox, please. Seriously. I have been looking at this for over 40 years. Please, someone, illuminate my real shortcomings.

Thanks Anonycat. I never saw you say that, either, and so maybe everyone actually agrees after all.

Looks like it was a misunderstanding.