The Truth about Debbie Cook as Captain of Flag

Purple Rain

Crusader
Just for the record, I have never, ever, said that I understand the inside workings of the mind of a SO member. Dox, please. Seriously. I have been looking at this for over 40 years. Please, someone, illuminate my real shortcomings. How many loved ones ripped up for how many years does it take to have a worthy opinion?

Well, I think your opinion is worthy, and I know what you have done unsung to fight the cult. I think you're awesome! Plus you like hobbit houses.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Oh, I lol'd that then went, wait, no, un-lol, un-lol.... It sounded like a joke at first, but thinking about it, that's awful.

It was awful. You turn red, and your skin burns like hell. I was a child taking a big adult overdose. If I die from the results, I wouldn't be surprised. It probably wrecked my kidney and liver.
 

Leland

Crusader
Hey, Consider yourself lucky, I'd rather feel set aside on an Internet forum than to have lost years of my life to the CoS as a slave worked half to death and fed rice & beans.

Thankyou....but as a "Public" I lost 27 years of my life to the cult.....and 13 more, now.....since I left it in 2001, sorting things out.

My life was devastated.....

I am sure many "public" did without....as I did....to pay on account, and "move up the bridge." The sad part is I did it to myself.....(in a broad sense)

Many public, lived in group homes...and lived as cheaply as possible.....

But of course....not as severe as SO and Staff....

And I'd like to point out.....without a "public", where would the Cof$ be?

Many times I've read here on ESMB, that this board is tying to educate and stop anyone from making that first fatal step.....of getting involved with this cult. And I agree.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I know and realize that ESMB is mainly former SO......BUT, I must say, it does piss me off that "PUBLIC" (as we thought we were called...lol) are routinely set aside here.... :(

actually it aint mainly ExSO. The only time one of the admins was xso was when I was doing it for a brief period. I think all but one of the mods are not xso as well. And, to be honest, I think ESMB is better for that.

not sure what you mean by "routinely setaside" . I disagreed with anonycat's posting about Debbie Cook for reasons I laid out. One of the reasons I think AC did not get it right was because they did not appear to understand some things that are very clear from inside but almost unknowable from outside.

That does not mean that I think anonycat is wrong in all things about scientology, not at all. Not even close.

My opinion about Debbie Cook is based on what I know of her from working with her. It is also based on what someone who holds the Captain FSO job for 17 years (h/t to Lulu for correcting me) has to be like in order to do that job to the satisfaction of a person like Miscavige. My opinion is based on what she has done in the past, consistently and for long periods.

And my opinion is that she did exactly the same thing again with the recent email/courtcase/gag order/settlement. And I think the results bear out my opinion.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Thankyou....but as a "Public" I lost 27 years of my life to the cult.....and 13 more, now.....since I left it in 2001, sorting things out.

My life was devastated.....

I am sure many "public" did without....as I did....to pay on account, and "move up the bridge." The sad part is I did it to myself.....(in a broad sense)

Many public, lived in group homes...and lived as cheaply as possible.....

But of course....not as severe as SO and Staff....

And I'd like to point out.....without a "public", where would the Cof$ be?

Many times I've read here on ESMB, that this board is tying to educate and stop anyone from making that first fatal step.....of getting involved with this cult. And I agree.

Somebody said before that every Scientologist is a victim and a perpetrator, and I think that is true. Public were victims of mind control, too. Many of them lost their families as well as their financial security. I don't think such "who was damaged more" rivalries are constructive.
 

Leland

Crusader
Somebody said before that every Scientologist is a victim and a perpetrator, and I think that is true. Public were victims of mind control, too. Many of them lost their families as well as their financial security. I don't think such "who was damaged more" rivalries are constructive.

I hear you. I am in no way tying to start a "rivalry." I just said "set aside" in reference to some of the discussions here.

But perhaps it is still me......trying and trying and banging my head against a wall....tying to get at what happened....

For me, as a public, sure it was LRH....but I looked up to and had to deal with SO and Staff. Sure the "church" in general...but the people I dealt with were SO and Staff....

It was and is still, really, part of the trap....!

I decided (as an 17 year old) to "get into" scientology. I even told my best friend "I'm joining a cult." And I tried it for 27 years....

But I did it as an experiment....to see if it worked.....and I got hooked.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
It was awful. You turn red, and your skin burns like hell. I was a child taking a big adult overdose. If I die from the results, I wouldn't be surprised. It probably wrecked my kidney and liver.

I wish there was a sad emoticon button for this.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I hear you. I am in no way tying to start a "rivalry." I just said "set aside" in reference to some of the discussions here.

But perhaps it is still me......trying and trying and banging my head against a wall....tying to get at what happened....

For me, as a public, sure it was LRH....but I looked up to and had to deal with SO and Staff. Sure the "church" in general...but the people I dealt with were SO and Staff....

It was and is still, really, part of the trap....!

I decided (as an 17 year old) to "get into" scientology. I even told my best friend "I'm joining a cult." And I tried it for 27 years....

But I did it as an experiment....to see if it worked.....and I got hooked.

Sure. I have just seen that from time to time in the past, because there can be resentments going both ways.
 

Leland

Crusader
Sure. I have just seen that from time to time in the past, because there can be resentments going both ways.

Yes, that was "built into the system" of scientology.

"Why weren't the orgs booming with public..."

"Why weren't the public doing more....getting their friends in and such"

"Why weren't the public joining the SO or Staff?"

What a crazy set up scientology was!!
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thankyou....but as a "Public" I lost 27 years of my life to the cult.....and 13 more, now.....since I left it in 2001, sorting things out.

My life was devastated.....

I am sure many "public" did without....as I did....to pay on account, and "move up the bridge." The sad part is I did it to myself.....(in a broad sense)

Many public, lived in group homes...and lived as cheaply as possible.....

But of course....not as severe as SO and Staff....

And I'd like to point out.....without a "public", where would the Cof$ be?

Many times I've read here on ESMB, that this board is tying to educate and stop anyone from making that first fatal step.....of getting involved with this cult. And I agree.

I did not mean to diminish what you went through, lord knows they put the screws to "public members" and ruin lives. I was just trying to put a positive spin on it. At least you were spared the abuse of being in the SO, even if you weren't spared abuse and financial pain via regges and well, SO and staff getting blood from a stone.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Thankyou....but as a "Public" I lost 27 years of my life to the cult.....and 13 more, now.....since I left it in 2001, sorting things out.

My life was devastated.....

I am sure many "public" did without....as I did....to pay on account, and "move up the bridge." The sad part is I did it to myself.....(in a broad sense)

Many public, lived in group homes...and lived as cheaply as possible.....

But of course....not as severe as SO and Staff....

And I'd like to point out.....without a "public", where would the Cof$ be?

Many times I've read here on ESMB, that this board is tying to educate and stop anyone from making that first fatal step.....of getting involved with this cult. And I agree.

Leland, I got the idea that you had it worse and lived it harder than the majority of public. Am I mistaken?

Also, Steve Miller was in a really exceptional position as NSO at AOLA, seeing and dealing with things in Qual normally reserved for SO, which put you in a unique position as his flatmate. How did that influence you? Did it make you more dedicated? What did you see, do or experience that other public didn't? I imagine quite a bit. Perhaps some of that was traumatic and blocked for you, too, but either way, I'm sure you have much to tell and personally, I find the public stories fascinating and often enlightening.. :yes:
 

Leland

Crusader
Leland, I got the idea that you had it worse and lived it harder than the majority of public. Am I mistaken?

Also, Steve Miller was in a really exceptional position as NSO at AOLA, seeing and dealing with things in Qual normally reserved for SO, which put you in a unique position as his flatmate. How did that influence you? Did it make you more dedicated? What did you see, do or experience that other public didn't? I imagine quite a bit. Perhaps some of that was traumatic and blocked for you, too, but either way, I'm sure you have much to tell and personally, I find the public stories fascinating and often enlightening.. :yes:

LOL, Steve would race home in his Chevy Malibu, (from AOLA) turn on the television and make dinner. He ALWAYS had a turkey leg and salad. He ALWAYS watched "The Rockford Files" while eating dinner. He ate with his hands....grabbing a hand full of lettuce and eating that in between taking bites off his turkey leg.

We didn't really talk much. He was like you say a high tech terminal at AO. I had just arrived in LA in 1983 to do my OT 1-3. I solo audited in the living room, during the day, while he was at work.

I did mention in another post months ago, that there was one rare occasion where he did spill some beans to me.....and that was in regards to some public guy that had molested his daughter. Perhaps the burden of that information, or the enturbulation it caused on the org lines....was something he wanted to get off his chest...and he did a bit to me.

It wasn't a situation where I could query him much about anything and get much information out of him.

I do recall a situation, after I moved out and got my own apartment....where he asked me to come back and put up some nice Danish Modern type shelves that he had bought, in his living room. (he had gotten married by then.)

I am very handy with tools and building/fixing things...and it was not a problem for me. Steve didn't know how to turn a screwdriver....

After I finished the installation, Steve looked at me and said " You know MEST and I know THETA." I opinion of him dropped dramatically after that.

I could tell you a few more things...if you are interested. He came from a wealthy Jewish family that lived in NYC. But he had disconnected from them...(SPs)

I don't know how he met Astrid. But do know that he use to fly up to San Francisco to date her on the weekends.. It was so funny, he didn't have any luggage, so he would put his stuff in a brown paper grocery store bag...and drive to the airport and that was his luggage to hold his change of cloths for the weekend. :eyeroll:
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I am very handy with tools and building/fixing things...and it was not a problem for me. Steve didn't know how to turn a screwdriver....

After I finished the installation, Steve looked at me and said " You know MEST and I know THETA." I opinion of him dropped dramatically after that.

I could tell you a few more things...if you are interested. He came from a wealthy Jewish family that lived in NYC. But he had disconnected from them...(SPs)

I don't know how he met Astrid. But do know that he use to fly up to San Francisco to date her on the weekends.. It was so funny, he didn't have any luggage, so he would put his stuff in a brown paper grocery store bag...and drive to the airport and that was his luggage to hold his change of cloths for the weekend. :eyeroll:

Wow! Quirky stuff, right? He had that nice car but then he's flying with his clothes in a bag like some illegal immigrant fruitpicker. SO effect? :confused2: Or childish rebellion against the nice Jewish lugqage? :coolwink:

And loved his habits, didn't he? Were we all like that?

What an arrogant statement to make to you, and he probably thought it was a compliment. Was that one of your first wake-up calls?

Then think how MANY people knew something about child abuse going on, how many were deeply upset by it and .... ya know?

And Steve had left his family. How sad. :bigcry: Did you disconnect from yours or lose any friends because of Scientology?
 

Gib

Crusader
I find it odd when someone attacks one person in the odd belief it defends another - or proves some sort of point.

Anybody who doesn't believe child molestation was rampant in the SO at both Flag and in LA, with SO executives protecting predators and punishing victims, is an ostritch with their head ass deep in the sand. the stories are sadly numerous and those are just the ones who have spoken up, I have no doubt there is a veritable army of silent victims as well.

Almost all controlling cults that have children as part of their system have this problem, because adults have access to very gullible, easy to manipulate kids and so many cults are either very sexually repressive or overtly sexual (see Children of God). In fact, some predators join cults for this very reason - easy access to minors with systematic rejection of outside legal entities.

The ban on children in the SO may very well have stemmed from the problem of sex abuse - that and having to "care" for non-working humans. The cult would not have cared a whit about protecting kids, but lord knows they do care about legal and PR flaps and ESP in the 90s the sexual abuse of children becoming a public issue would have been their worst nightmare.

Good points BunnySkull. :thumbsup:

And I agree. I actually don't understand why folks here argue over it. It's pretty simple, really.

Scientology is supposed to handle all aberration of the human, it's called "clear" & "OT". The tech is supposed to solve all problems such as child molestation.

All Sea Org members believe the tech will handle anything. Thus all SO members will not report crimes to the authorities.

Child gets molested, it's because per the tech, child pulled it in. Person doing the molestation is out-ethics, thus they do conditions.

Problem solved within scientology, in the minds of the members as they were [STRIKE]taught[/STRIKE] persuaded the tech works.

But here is the kicker, because nobody in scientology can compare notes, also known as "no talking about case" and "no verbal data of tech", nobody really knows if the tech worked. They just think it works. And there is no feedback you might say.
 

Leland

Crusader
Wow! Quirky stuff, right? He had that nice car but then he's flying with his clothes in a bag like some illegal immigrant fruitpicker. SO effect? :confused2: Or childish rebellion against the nice Jewish lugqage? :coolwink:

And loved his habits, didn't he? Were we all like that?

What an arrogant statement to make to you, and he probably thought it was a compliment. Was that one of your first wake-up calls?

Then think how MANY people knew something about child abuse going on, how many were deeply upset by it and .... ya know?

And Steve had left his family. How sad. :bigcry: Did you disconnect from yours or lose any friends because of Scientology?

Now now Sheila....don't itsa me too much....lol

But really, I think talking about myself and what happened sometimes hurts me more than it helps me. (I stopped writing my history)

Yes, I did some disconnection stuff...and was away from my family for a long time... but we are all back together again.

But after leaving in 2001, I never talked to another scien, until I posted here. So lost all those people I knew...

Some SO were OK to me and some weren't. Of course, I didn't interact with many....no reason to.

Yes, an incredibly arrogant statement to make. It made me think he was an ass.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
And there is no feedback you might say.

That was the worst bit when it came to the kids. You'd try and try and try to follow-up and spin your wheels getting no info or almost no info and then told it was all fixed, bad guys in jail, sure, and let it go and start to feel at peace again, then find out years later that it wasn't true. What ever was?

I'm not sure anyone ever actually believed auditing or training would fix a child abuser, though. I sure never did.

But really, I think talking about myself and what happened sometimes hurts me more than it helps me.

I understand.
Yes, I did some disconnection stuff...and was away from my family for a long time... but we are all back together again.

But after leaving in 2001, I never talked to another scien, until I posted here. So lost all those people I knew...

Some SO were OK to me and some weren't. Of course, I didn't interact with many....no reason to.

Yes, an incredibly arrogant statement to make. It made me think he was an ass.

Glad you got your family back. :heartflower:
It's good to see the ass side of those we looked up to with hypnotic admiration. Helps break the spell.
Maybe wouldn't hurt to catch a barbecue once in a while with others that left. It helps. :yes:

Your point about the habits rang true for me personally - repeating routines kept us locked in the hypnotic spell of Scientology.

I'm happy to know you, Leland. You're a good guy and I'm sorry you went through all that.
 

Leland

Crusader
That was the worst bit when it came to the kids. You'd try and try and try to follow-up and spin your wheels getting no info or almost no info and then told it was all fixed, bad guys in jail, sure, and let it go and start to feel at peace again, then find out years later that it wasn't true. What ever was?

I'm not sure anyone ever actually believed auditing or training would fix a child abuser, though. I sure never did.



I understand.


Glad you got your family back. :heartflower:
It's good to see the ass side of those we looked up to with hypnotic admiration. Helps break the spell.
Maybe wouldn't hurt to catch a barbecue once in a while with others that left. It helps. :yes:

Your point about the habits rang true for me personally - repeating routines kept us locked in the hypnotic spell of Scientology.

I'm happy to know you, Leland. You're a good guy and I'm sorry you went through all that.

Thanks Sheila.

Yes it was kinda funny, I was usually home when Steve arrived for dinner. He did not want to talk....and was glued to the television watching his favorite show....Rockford Files.

We were two bachelors living together...so the place was a disaster, never cleaned...plates in the sink and all that...

And this is probably too much information...Steve had a lot of body hair...and it shed all over the bathroom floor. It was kinda gross.... He never cleaned it up. I think he was extremely worried about going bald....he always adjusted his hair to fall over his forehead....to cover any receding hairline.

I did ask a few questions about the child molestation...but don't recall the answers. I do know that they did not call the police about it.

LOL....funny guy. His Father and his uncles OWNED office buildings in NYC....lots of dough.

IMO it is tougher for Jewish families to lose a child to another religion. Just my opinion.
 

Gib

Crusader
That was the worst bit when it came to the kids. You'd try and try and try to follow-up and spin your wheels getting no info or almost no info and then told it was all fixed, bad guys in jail, sure, and let it go and start to feel at peace again, then find out years later that it wasn't true. What ever was?

I'm not sure anyone ever actually believed auditing or training would fix a child abuser, though. I sure never did.

Well I sure did.

I thought dianetics and scientology would handle any and all problems and aberrations. I was sold, persuaded by reading Hubbard.

But Hubbard stopped the negative feedback loop.

Hubbard stopped the negative feedback loop for self-correcting,

by calling it PTS/SP, entheta, no talking about case, no verbal data, ethics conditions, etc

And the positive feedback loop is called success stories, PR, marketing, good roads, good weather, etc.

It's all rhetorical writing by hubbard to convince.

Hubbard figured out how to get us to NOT COMPARE results. :laugh:
 
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