The Truth about Marty Rathburn

[42yearsin&pissed]

way to go, aaron

hi, aaron,

thank you for an excellent post.

i was in scientology for 42 years as "public," on mid-OT7 when the shit hit the fan for me and our family (more about that at another time).

anyway, when the house of cards began to fall for me, i had the following moment: upstairs in my bedroom is this rather massive, sturdy bookcase. it wraps around a bit on the walls. hubby made it for our scientology library. it contains all the usual, most of which is unread, unlistened-to. i recall looking at all those books, lectures, tech volumes, etc., and wondering: HOW COULD ALL OF THIS BE FAKE? why, the sheer volume of material was astounding and surely meant truth therein. NOT!

and then i had a second idea: scientology is so TEDIOUS!

i recall countless hours arguing about tech in the '70s and '80s while on course, when we could still do so (considered verbal tech by modern-day standards); fighting with supes over definitions of words that were applicable to me but not to them; many, many hours receiving auditing, trying to locate another incident earlier on the chain, when there really weren't any, but the needle wasn't "floating" because the whole thing was just so wrong, etc.

TEDIOUS! and it still is. this is probably not very relevant to this chain, but overall, perhaps it is.

we just gotta get on with things and stop paying attention to the small stuff.

somehow i didn't need scientology anymore. count yourselves lucky and much richer if you never made it up the bridge. and those of you who did, best wishes for a marvelous life that YOU create and one in which you find out truly what is your interest and area of activity. could be quite an interesting adventure.

and someday such thoughts as "What would LRH do" - lol - we sure know now since we read thousands of pages of lies - and "What policy deals with such and such" will fade out of existence.

we all probably hate the self-delusion we were under. oh, well. too bad. onward.

thanks again for a swell post, aaron.

42

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Voltaire, easy on Markus, please. He is not a Scn or exScn. He's here because someone very close to him died in Scilo. He just misunderstood you. He is 100% with us on human rights, but he has his own particular pain with Scilo.

I think what he meant was that Scilo comes from so many sources that whether you're a Scilo or not, you use parts of it in everyday life. That's all.

He also put words in my mouth (keyboard) that I did not say, imply or intend. He painted me as some kind of FZ/Rondroid. He needs to get a clue. He can start by reading my sigline. Oh, and my post, as to what it actually said.

 

[slimjim]

Voltaire - it's christmas

If you're really into it all, try communicating with some "ARC". to be honest I'm getting stressed just reading your comms.

If anything yucky happened or if things aren't going great, I wish that things will smooth out right away for you, I'm with ya and send you LOTS of

Love and hugs
slimjim

 

[thetanic]

and then i had a second idea: scientology is so TEDIOUS!

i recall countless hours arguing about tech in the '70s and '80s while on course, when we could still do so (considered verbal tech by modern-day standards); fighting with supes over definitions of words that were applicable to me but not to them; many, many hours receiving auditing, trying to locate another incident earlier on the chain, when there really weren't any, but the needle wasn't "floating" because the whole thing was just so wrong, etc.

TEDIOUS! and it still is. this is probably not very relevant to this chain, but overall, perhaps it is.

42, that's a pretty amazing observation.

Routing forms were tedious too.
And then there was the waiting!

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

Great post, Aaron.

I was duped by LRH. But that all got cleared up about 2 years ago. It was a joyous day for me.

 

[slimjim]

speaking of tedious, lemme count the ways in which it was all tedious!

like you said
routing forms
waiting (for sessions)
the "set ups"
the waiting for a floating needle
the letter writing
the endless events
the voice of the guy doing the events
sunday service when they decided to implement it
the endless conditions that didn't really change anything
the long hours
the having to write csw's - ok sorry, I could go on. but I won't.

 

[slimjim]

Oh Aaron, I got sidetracked, sorry

Great post, well put and I agree - better to nip it in the bud now before it gains momentum.

Was it Paul Schofield who said that he realised Scientology was the art of Self Delusion? Well Mary is a prime example. Or a good actor.

 

[hartley]

So it's ok to toss out bulletins and policies whenever they don't suit the interest of the person involved? How does that make one a Scientologist then? Being a Scientologist means you follow Source 100% not whenever you want to.

Tell that to the millions of non-Catholic Christians who ignore the pronouncements of the Bishop of Rome!

As with every other such belief set, Scientology has disagreements, schisms and disputes. You can scream until you are blue in the face that all Scientologists must follow Source, but that does not make it true.

Self identification is a better guide to religious status, and it is therefore the one used by demographers. It is not of course perfect, as people can stick labels on themselves that everyone else thinks are false. Latter Day Saints are not, despite their protestations, considered to be 'proper' Christians by other Christian organisations.

And that is the other good guide - public opinion. If the overwhelming majority say for example that the CoS is a cult, then it is one for practical purposes.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Voltaire - it's christmas

If you're really into it all, try communicating with some "ARC". to be honest I'm getting stressed just reading your comms.

If anything yucky happened or if things aren't going great, I wish that things will smooth out right away for you, I'm with ya and send you LOTS of

Love and hugs
slimjim

Hi, Slimjim,

I'm doing fine. Don't worry about me. I've posted very different things on each thread and I create my responses based on commentary I've received. Each one is different and each one is written as and when I see fit.

My life is fine and my taking issue with/re a couple of posts does not indicate any problems in said life. No offense, but I don't think anyone should assume that it would have.

Happy Hellidays to you, too.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Tell that to the millions of non-Catholic Christians who ignore the pronouncements of the Bishop of Rome!

As with every other such belief set, Scientology has disagreements, schisms and disputes. You can scream until you are blue in the face that all Scientologists must follow Source, but that does not make it true.

Self identification is a better guide to religious status, and it is therefore the one used by demographers. It is not of course perfect, as people can stick labels on themselves that everyone else thinks are false. Latter Day Saints are not, despite their protestations, considered to be 'proper' Christians by other Christian organisations.

And that is the other good guide - public opinion. If the overwhelming majority say for example that the CoS is a cult, then it is one for practical purposes.

^^^^^wot he said^^^^^^

 

[42yearsin&pissed]

doctorates of tedium

we all should have received doctorates of tedium and/or doctorates of patience.

and the beat goes on, right, aaron? it's endless. you have to confront the tedium still, so others may wake up. sorry. you is a good guy.

the tedium of arguing regarding the tech nowadays: is it valid? is it not?

well, there's some joy there because we're not used to doing that anymore; aruing, that is.

but really, it's ALL rather tedious, don't you think?

tedious drilling because you stammered on a word (barely).

now i'm about to make scalloped potatoes and somehow that isn't tedious to me. i used to consider it dev-t, though. now it's a joy.

and a glass of red wine is pure heaven.

all of you have a joyous christmas.

42

 

[Zinjifar]

the tedium is the Tech.

Now, watch the swinging watch and you're getting very very, um, processed....

Zinj

 

[Blue Spirit]

Another Fucking Nazi

And back to the subject at hand; does anyone here really believe that we've heard/read The Truth about Marty Rathbun yet? I don't.

The only truth I need re Marty Rathbun is the obvious Nazi personality he did adopt to please senior Nazi DM.

I could feel it years ago from the balcony at the event where he spoke.

How's that for OT Aaron ? :lo

 

[Mark A. Baker]

So it's ok to toss out bulletins and policies whenever they don't suit the interest of the person involved?

Yes. True if it's true for you.

How does that make one a Scientologist then?

See VC's tech dictionary post. Even Hubbard said it.

Being a Scientologist means you follow Source 100% not whenever you want to.

Nope, that's YOUR consideration.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

Lying is a Scientology sacrament. Scientologists were lied to by Scientology's founder, are encouraged to lie to themselves about Scientology, and are expected to lie to others on behalf of Scientology. When this lying becomes internalized, the person no longer requires an organization to enforce the lying - it just becomes something he does.

This can become quite creepy.

 

[Zinjifar]

Lying is a Scientology sacrament. Scientologists were lied to by Scientology's founder, are encouraged to lie to themselves about Scientology, and are expected to lie to others on behalf of Scientology. When this lying becomes internalized, the person no longer requires an organization to enforce the lying - it just becomes something he does.

This can become quite creepy.

*Successful* Scientologists are those most proficient at lying to themselves.

The wonders of doublethink never cease.

Zinj

 

[degraded being]

I am in agreement with Mz Manchie.

To me it boils down to "squirrel scientologists" who insist upon calling themselves scientologists being liars.

To insist upon anouncing themselves as scientologists, qualified by how they butcher scientology any which way,
only announces that they are oxy morons.

 

[Terril park]

I do find it rather amusing how much attention Marty Rathbun (note the spelling) is getting, considering how unimportant several ESMBers apparently consider him to be.

I also find it rather frustrating. I can’t see how Rathbun is doing anything other than making it easier for all of us who oppose the ‘Church’ of Scientology and the abuses perpetrated in it’s name. He has provided a rallying point for many ‘true believers’ who would probably never listen to us and given them an acceptable route out of the cult. He has also provided a target for Miscavige (there always has to be a WHY / WHO) which diverts attention from us and he has been and continues to be a vocal critic of Miscavige and the CoS (in it’s current form), getting a lot of media coverage in the process.

I really don’t see what the big deal is with going after Rathbun. Don’t we have a more pressing target right now?

If you want to have a serious discussion with him and all the other supporters of the Scientology ‘Tech’, can’t that wait until the CoS has been dismantled? Perhaps by then, most of the supporters will have had a chance to educate themselves and change their minds?

And, just as a matter of interest, who here has actually met the guy?

Axiom142

My thoughts also Ax.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Yes. True if it's true for you.




See VC's tech dictionary post. Even Hubbard said it.




Nope, that's YOUR consideration.


Mark A. Baker

Boy, if I had a nickel for every time some critic would (while totally ignoring the existence of Scn splinter groups, offshoots, etc) tell someone who practices Scientology that the person is not a Scientologist- I could fucking retire. And each time they do it with the air of someone making some brand new discovery, as if people hadn't been making the same comments for years.

Virtually every religion, ology, ism, philosophy has offshoots. Hubbard himself said a Scientologist is someone who uses Scn in his or her life.

Also I notice the assumption that non CofS Scn'ists are chucking out various bits of tech. Point of fact, some don't. Some are tech purists. They may not abide by some policies (but then again, neither does CofS) but some of them do abide by all "tech". Some don't, but some do.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I am in agreement with Mz Manchie.

To me it boils down to "squirrel scientologists" who insist upon calling themselves scientologists being liars.

To insist upon anouncing themselves as scientologists, qualified by how they butcher scientology any which way,
only announces that they are oxy morons.

That's ridiculous. Hubbard himself defined a Scientologist as someone who uses Scn in his or her life. Period. No mention of who's in what organization.

Also, as I said, many FreeZoners ARE tech purists and don't butcher anything.

You should probably do some reading as you appear to be operating on limited and incomplete information. There is nothing wrong with not having all the facts but when you are standing on such a platform and using it to tell others what they are and are not, well, it's kind of not so good.