The 'Why' Scientology works (on some) ....... & does not, on others .....

[FoTi]

Yoiu lost me already . . . .

WHAT "great spiritual truth"? :confused2:

I don't see it, and I am more than a little familiar with BOTH sides of the so-called "bridge".

So, your apparent "dilemma" mentioned above, to me, is quite non-existent.

The Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom is a path to nowhere (other than towards exaggerated egos who falsely imagine that they are somehow now "superior" as some sort of "OT").

"You" will NEVER "be God". At best "you" can dissolve and fade, and you might meld into God. But that is about it. I suppose that I have read too much "source data" from the original Hindu and Buddhist texts to fall for Hubbard's ersatz "spiritual philosophy". As long as there is any sense of "you", well, "you" have NOT "made it". And, if you think and believe that "you" have "made it" while wallowing in your individuality and uniqueness, then it is a delusion. Just like Hubbard - VERY deluded.

Sorry, Horatio, but your argument is already dead.

Note: I spend time every day on "spiritual pursuits", and I have had more "spiritual gains" with various forms of meditation. visualization, and various occult drills than anything I got from Scientology. But then, I am looking to expand my ability to be (nothing) and love, not to acquire "super abilities" (i.e. "OT").

The Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom is not a Path to Nowhere....it's the Path to Poverty.

When you have spent all your money on Scientology, you no longer need your bank. Going Clear means that you have given Scientology all of your money and you thus no longer need a bank.....thus you are free of your bank (and other people know that you are most likely broke or in debt). Paying for Scientology and getting rid of your bank go hand in hand. That is what it's about, isn't it? You are supposed to get rid of your bank when you go Clear, aren't you? At least that's the way I experienced it. It worked for me.

 

[What's It All About]

...which is a long story given the history of a spiritual being imagining itself (i.e mocking itself up) as being a man. The invisible becoming visible. The formeless taking form. The timeless appearing in time. etc.

Nonetheless I will provide a short version here (for openers) having been prepared for the intellectual elite amongst us. Elsewise it would take a few lifetimes (if not more) to explain the basic & fundamental dynamics involved to the idiots amongst us. Which are many.

The foremost question at the moment for us ('us' being humanity) is how is it possible that such a great human liar could produce such a great spiritual truth? Which conceptual framework is intellectually indisputable as being 'workable' (though the morons amongst us will continue to whine about it). So be it. More on being a moron later.

Given the depth, breadth and scope of the subject I must and will necessarily begin with a few simple concepts. Beginning with the fundamental concept that: all human beings have a 'Moral Code'. Which consequence of such an elementary concept will come into play later on (in terms of coming to understand why Scientology works on some, and why Scientology does not work on others).

By the way, as a side note, the reason most human beings do not think for themselves, is because thinking itself, is work. Don't believe me? Think about it.

L. Ron Hubbard knew something most people in this world didn't (and never would/will) know. Which is to say he knew he was a God, of sorts, in regard to this world. He knew he was a Spiritual Being that was formless and timeless and thus invisible and eternal, which he called, in his words, the Static. Not 'A' Static mind you. But 'The' Static. Big difference. More on that later. Covered in the subject of Being a 'Thetan'.

Sufficient to clarify (for the moment) Scientology appeared on the worlds stage/scene owing to the presence of a man that knew (if not merely deeply-believed) that all men were Gods, even as he struggled with his own sense (and reality) of being a man. With all of the difficulties such a co-reality entails and demands. After all, he did flunk physics. And he did write Dianetics. In that order.

More later.

The body is hungry. Must eat.

much love,
Horacio

What do you mean by "works on some and does not on others"? What happens when Scientology "works on" a person?

What is "a long story given the history of a spiritual being imagining itself (i.e mocking itself up) as being a man. The invisible becoming visible. The formeless taking form. The timeless appearing in time. etc."? Do you mean that Scientology is that long history?

I'm not sure what statement you are trying to make here.

However, you question how it could be that Ron the Ridiculous, a pathological liar, could know that he is a god, a spiritual being, etc.

I read somewhere that Ron had a sickness that took him close to death. If so, and if he had a near-death experience, then he may have experienced his own spiritual reality directly.

Strangely enough, although many people who have near-death experiences are changed for the better, sometimes it produces megalomania. A researcher named P.M.H. Atwater has done a great deal of research on this subject and has recorded others who have created horrific catastrophes for those around them despite, or because of, having a near-death experience.

But whether Elwrong had one or not, he did a lot of reading about the occult, which often describes spiritual realities. So he may simply have picked these ideas up in other people's books.

Since it was his intention to start a religion in order to enrich himself, he had to have some material that made reference to spiritual realities. The idea that humans embody an eternal soul that is a divine spark (or chip off the old God block) is hardly unique.

So I don't think that his lying was a bar to his plagarism to create the illusion that what he was selling was a religion. And even people who are delusional can be correct about some things.

I was walking across a street the other day when a guy who probably was schizophrenic passed me. He was dirty and ragged, his hair was long and he was scratching himself and talking to himself. He was shouting and jumping as though startled. But at one point he said, "Find a police and go to the crazy hospital". He knew that he could get shelter, and treatment, if he could get himself picked up by the police. I'm sure this had happened to him many times.

So he was delusional but also could say things that were grounded in reality. So was Hubbard.

Even crazy people can be right some of the time. And Hubbard shoved in enough real stuff so that people wouldn't notice when they were accepting the poisonous ideas along with the more benign ones.

I think that "L. Ron Hubbard knew something most people in this world didn't (and never would/will) know." is simply false. You seem to be attached to the idea that he had unique knowledge of spiritual realities.

I think that there have been countless human beings who have such knowledge. In fact, I think such knowledge is an inevitable part of our existence, certainly at the intuitive or "subconscious" level, and as such cannot be obliterated for more than a short period of time (say some number of lifetimes - short in the overall scheme of existence).

I think that intuitively, every human knows that we are not innately physical. These intuitions manifest in many ways. Religions of every type address this fact and attempt to remind us of it. There's nothing at all new in the idea.

But each of us goes through a unique trajectory of remembering. And physical life is truly a melting pot. On the "other side", we can only relate to others of an approximate stage of development to our own. We can't force our way into a "finer state of vibration" or "higher realm" just by wanting to go there. And we explore "darker realms" at our peril.

But in physical life, you can be walking next to a "saint" or a "devil" any day of the week. So the guy who cleans the laundromat can be a quiet saint while a Hubbard is a con man who attempted represent himself as a saint/psychologist.

Some of the best explanations I've heard of this have come from two sources, both involved in teaching (affordably) people to have out-of-body experiences: Robert Monroe (deceased), who wrote Journeys Out of the Body and other books and founder of the Monroe Institute and Dr. Waldo Vieira, an elderly Brazilian who founded the IAC (International Academy of Consciousness). Jane Robert's Seth writings are also a unique and revelatory source of information about our "eternal selves".

Unfortunately, Dr. Vieira created his own Latinized vocabulary to talk about the "paranormal" or the "occult" precisely because he didn't like the preconceptions that people have when they hear the terminology associated with that material.

I don't think Hubbard was on to anything unique. And even delusional people may speak the truth at times. It doesn't tip the scales in his favor, in my estimation, that he knew that we have a "divine" aspect. The way he used that basic and in a sense, non-esoteric fact was primarily destructive.

 

[RolandRB]

I'm sure "it works" on some people in that they do Scientology and get some sort of improvement in their lives according to their own criteria, or so they think. Only a fraction of those people will pass an "other people think they have improved" test because it will all be in their mind in most cases. What you have left of it "working" on people and outsiders seeing it has a positive benefit is no more than a random effect. Slipping on a bar of soap in the shower will, I am sure, positively effect some people though I would not regard a person who recommended it as a therapy, a genius.

The people who have Big Wins(tm) from Scientology are the social types who can enthuse and make a lot of noise in order to let people know that they are truly part of that group and agree with everything and respond perfectly in the way they know they are supposed to respond. They are good actors/actresses. They are positive, social and thrive on showing that they agree and fit in with that social group. They are the ones who will draw ARC triangles on their Success Stories(tm) with them on it and L. Ron Hubbard on it and show that they were once lost to the world and and now glowing. It is they who will claim that they were as good as dead and L. Ron Hubbard saved their lives through the Tech(tm).

 

[Smilla]

Click me.

 

[Smilla]

Modesty is sexy.


[video=youtube;6gwLQAuHJv8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gwLQAuHJv8&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;Up7nKpyh5uA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Up7nKpyh5uA#![/video]

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re the concept posted in the thread title, here's my guess:

It's because we're all different people.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Yoiu lost me already . . . .

WHAT "great spiritual truth"? :confused2:

I don't see it, and I am more than a little familiar with BOTH sides of the so-called "bridge".

So, your apparent "dilemma" mentioned above, to me, is quite non-existent.

The Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom is a path to nowhere (other than towards exaggerated egos who falsely imagine that they are somehow now "superior" as some sort of "OT").

"You" will NEVER "be God". At best "you" can dissolve and fade, and you might meld into God. But that is about it. I suppose that I have read too much "source data" from the original Hindu and Buddhist texts to fall for Hubbard's ersatz "spiritual philosophy". As long as there is any sense of "you", well, "you" have NOT "made it". And, if you think and believe that "you" have "made it" while wallowing in your individuality and uniqueness, then it is a delusion. Just like Hubbard - VERY deluded.

Sorry, Horatio, but your argument is already dead.

Note: I spend time every day on "spiritual pursuits", and I have had more "spiritual gains" with various forms of meditation. visualization, and various occult drills than anything I got from Scientology. But then, I am looking to expand my ability to be (nothing) and love, not to acquire "super abilities" (i.e. "OT").

You are actually trying to have a serious discussion with Homo Horacius?

Paul

 

[Gadfly]

You are actually trying to have a serious discussion with Homo Horacius?

Paul

Are you kidding me? Of course not!

I was stating MY VIEW on some idiocies that spewed forth from his general direction.

 

[Smilla]

The OT OP seems to have lost his lust for this thread


[video=youtube;JOvabFrdQes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOvabFrdQes[/video]

 

[Smilla]

..
[video=youtube;D09lRMNPOHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D09lRMNPOHE[/video]

 

[Smilla]

..
[video=youtube;uq04SazQlEk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq04SazQlEk[/video]

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

The OT OP seems to have lost his lust for this thread


[video=youtube;JOvabFrdQes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOvabFrdQes[/video]

Veni Vidi Posti Blowi

He came, he saw, he posted, he blew.

The cycle of a Scientologist.

They come to earth, like Ron, humbly gift their universal wisdom and then suddenly leave, graciously affording mortals with abundant time to clay demo.

 

[Lermanet_com]

"The nationalist socialists derived power from one source: ...a fanatical autohypnosis which convinced disciples, succumbing to the totalitarian discipline in the promise of reaching transcendent reality, that they were the new men the age was waiting for.. ..that they were endowed with a secret energy which would enable them to take over germany and the world. If they were properly prepared, mysteries would be revealed to them which would give them Satanic powers.." from Gods and Beasts - The Nazi's and the Occult, by Dusty Sklar (c) 1977 isbn 0-690-01232-2 LINK

 

[Lermanet_com]

Perhaps, those who still "believe" in scientology (or volunteer for osa) AND have seen the internet..., likely have pedophilia or something sinister that they cannot risk ever being revealed residing, in writing, perhaps video, in their thier "pc ("auditing folder") files"...


I recall, in the late 60's, being "PC Folder Admin" and then I got "promoted" to Dir of Tech Services...anyway, one day the PC Folder Admin sign on the door was replaced with a new one, "Confessional Formulary"

arnie lerma

"It's funny how everyone considers honesty a virtue, but nobody wants to hear the truth" link

 

[Smurf]

...which is a long story given the history of a spiritual being imagining itself (i.e mocking itself up) as being a man. The invisible becoming visible. The formeless taking form. The timeless appearing in time. etc.
Horacio

LOL. Nice try, Bill (Yaude). You & your OSA shenanigans posting as 'Turtlez' on OCMB didn't work there... they sure, in hell, aren't going to work here.

Keep trying, cupcake. :dancer:

 

[Gadfly]

"The nationalist socialists derived power from one source: ...a fanatical autohypnosis which convinced disciples, succumbing to the totalitarian discipline in the promise of reaching transcendent reality, that they were the new men the age was waiting for.. ..that they were endowed with a secret energy which would enable them to take over germany and the world. If they were properly prepared, mysteries would be revealed to them which would give them Satanic powers.." from Gods and Beasts - The Nazi's and the Occult, by Dusty Sklar (c) 1977 isbn 0-690-01232-2 LINK

Great book! I read it back in about 1994 when I was still onlines at Flag (living in Clearwater). I remember noticing a few too many similarities with Scientology - it was discomforting to say the least.

The same thing happened about the same time when I read, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of Brainwashing in China" by Robert Jay Lifton.

I looked around at how Scientology functioned and behaved, and it was too often just like what Lifton was describing in his book.

 

[Smilla]

LOL. Nice try, Bill (Yaude). You & your OSA shenanigans posting as 'Turtlez' on OCMB didn't work there... they sure, in hell, aren't going to work here.

Keep trying, cupcake. :dancer:

Looks like his controller hit the big red button. Selah.

 

[Smilla]

Perhaps, those who still "believe" in scientology (or volunteer for osa) AND have seen the internet..., likely have pedophilia or something sinister that they cannot risk ever being revealed residing, in writing, perhaps video, in their thier "pc ("auditing folder") files"...


I recall, in the late 60's, being "PC Folder Admin" and then I got "promoted" to Dir of Tech Services...anyway, one day the PC Folder Admin sign on the door was replaced with a new one, "Confessional Formulary"

arnie lerma

"It's funny how everyone considers honesty a virtue, but nobody wants to hear the truth" link

As always, what you say makes a lot of sense.

 

[RolandRB]

I'm sure "it works" on some people in that they do Scientology and get some sort of improvement in their lives according to their own criteria, or so they think. Only a fraction of those people will pass an "other people think they have improved" test because it will all be in their mind in most cases. What you have left of it "working" on people and outsiders seeing it has a positive benefit is no more than a random effect. Slipping on a bar of soap in the shower will, I am sure, positively effect some people though I would not regard a person who recommended it as a therapy, a genius.

The people who have Big Wins(tm) from Scientology are the social types who can enthuse and make a lot of noise in order to let people know that they are truly part of that group and agree with everything and respond perfectly in the way they know they are supposed to respond. They are good actors/actresses. They are positive, social and thrive on showing that they agree and fit in with that social group. They are the ones who will draw ARC triangles on their Success Stories(tm) with them on it and L. Ron Hubbard on it and show that they were once lost to the world and and now glowing. It is they who will claim that they were as good as dead and L. Ron Hubbard saved their lives through the Tech(tm).

I used to be so envious of those Happy People who had Big Wins(tm). I wanted to be Happy like them. But looking back, I think these people were as scared as fuck and just putting on a convincing act.

 

[RolandRB]

"The nationalist socialists derived power from one source: ...a fanatical autohypnosis which convinced disciples, succumbing to the totalitarian discipline in the promise of reaching transcendent reality, that they were the new men the age was waiting for.. ..that they were endowed with a secret energy which would enable them to take over germany and the world. If they were properly prepared, mysteries would be revealed to them which would give them Satanic powers.." from Gods and Beasts - The Nazi's and the Occult, by Dusty Sklar (c) 1977 isbn 0-690-01232-2 LINK

I've walked around the Feldherrnhalle and Odeonsplatz loads of times, when I was living in Munich, and even religiously went there every Sunday morning when you would have expected the power to be at its highest, but I never felt a thing.