The worst damage Scientology does.

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I think the worst damage that Scientology does is to the spirit.

I know that a lot of people here were once optimist and hopeful that the world could be a better place.

Then we fell into the grip of Scientology.

It is good that we are out. But it’s not good enough.

We have to recover that hopefulness and humanity each of us possessed before Scientology crushed our spirits.

In the name of spirituality Scientology crushed us into dirt.

I see many people here who strike me as nihilist.

Sometimes there are threads where a mood of cynicism about justice or anything spiritual or religious dominates.

Only the bad is looked at. Only the bad is acknowledged.

Ideas that give hope and inspiration to other people in the world are often held here in contempt.

That’s the lingering effect of Scientology.

The cynicism is not sound reasoning or rational thought but rather the scar left upon our spirits by Scientology.

I think it would behoove everyone to remember their humanity.

We were all fooled; we became and once were what we now despise.

The death of Karen’s son and surrounding events makes me want to scream.

Let’s rage against the dying of the spirit—our spirit.

Let’s not forget what we once knew was true: that we are of a spiritual nature and that all the evils that befall mankind are only temporal.

I’m adding this video because it fits.

Listen to the statement read by the late E.G. Marshall and written by the author of the song.

It certainly describes my view of Scientology now.

Most importantly, the song gives me a feeling of absolution for my contribution to Scientology.

Peace.

http://youtu.be/l6vR-TQ7n68

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[RogerB]

TAJ,

Yours above is one of the very posts ever on ESMB.

A masterpiece. Immensely valid and important.

Thank you.

RogerB

 

[TG1]

TAJ, your post speaks to me, too.

Thank you for it.

TG1

 

[FoTi]

TAJ, your post speaks to me, too.

Thank you for it.

TG1

Me too!!!

Beautiful.

Very inspirational.

Thanks so much, TAJ.

 

[LA SCN]

WORD!

That think entered my mind as I posted on the Moody Blues thread. Pre Scn I was so filled with goodwill towards my fellow man. When I 'fell' for Scn it was because I bought that here was the most effective way ever to help my fellow man. Ooops...

But now I'm past that naivete and want to help my fellow man out of the trap I was in. As long as the church goes on, there is suffering of greater or lesser degree occurring and spiritual damage ongoing.

Great post, TAJ!

 

[Petey C]

My view is a bit different. I think that many of us -- certainly people I know who have been through the Scientology/SO mangle -- are much more optimistic and full of spirit than we were before Scientology and certainly during Scientology. And that's even adjusting for the foolish optimism of youth.

I would have to say that the more I know, the more I know I don't know. And the more ignorant I become, the happier I am. I see myself as more hopeful and humane than I was before or during Scientology. Though there's much to complain about, ultimately I am still fired by the brilliance and compassion of human nature, and most importantly the ability of people to change and create.

I wonder too whether some of the nihilism, cynicism and what you see as being anti-spiritual or religious is just a reflection of contemporary culture and its preoccupations. What's on this board is not necessarily representative of people's deeper nature; a lot of what you read is dashed off in quick response to a stimulus and not a considered, even, judicious reply. It's ephemera, it's fleeting. It's rouge and powder, not skin or flesh and blood.

 

[RogerB]

My view is a bit different. I think that many of us -- certainly people I know who have been through the Scientology/SO mangle -- are much more optimistic and full of spirit than we were before Scientology and certainly during Scientology. And that's even adjusting for the foolish optimism of youth.

I would have to say that the more I know, the more I know I don't know. And the more ignorant I become, the happier I am. I see myself as more hopeful and humane than I was before or during Scientology. Though there's much to complain about, ultimately I am still fired by the brilliance and compassion of human nature, and most importantly the ability of people to change and create.

I wonder too whether some of the nihilism, cynicism and what you see as being anti-spiritual or religious is just a reflection of contemporary culture and its preoccupations. What's on this board is not necessarily representative of people's deeper nature; a lot of what you read is dashed off in quick response to a stimulus and not a considered, even, judicious reply. It's ephemera, it's fleeting. It's rouge and powder, not skin or flesh and blood.

Petey,

What a wonderful post. What you say is very true and sane.

While TAJ is also correct in some of the sentiments he wrote in his post: Hubbard and his cult did betray the ideal we sought and pursued and some were damaged by it; your response is positive and that too is true and actually beneficial.

What I like in what you wrote is that you addressed and put back in place the sanity of pursuing one's spiritual ideals; for it is insane to abandon them. And that, in the abandonment of one's truth and spiritual ideals, is where and when the real, actual damage occurs.

I say, as you do above, pursue the truth of you, your dreams and aspirations: do not hang up in the purported damage of the betrayal.

You have what you focus on . . . .

RogerB

 

[Commander Birdsong]

"...that the world could be a better place" - taj

janis joplin said "i'm not a hippie. i'm a beatnik. hippies want to change the world. beatniks know you can't."

 

[Gadfly]

The "worst" is that people still actually think and talk about it TEN, TWENTY or MORE YEARS after they have LEFT! :confused2:

Some STILL consider it "relevant" even though they haven't been in a Church or Mission in sometimes 25 years!!!!

What was/is it about Scientology that can dig in SO DEEP and STAY THERE for so long? :confused2:

 

[Operating DB]

The "worst" is that people still actually think and talk about it TEN, TWENTY or MORE YEARS after they have LEFT! :confused2:

Some STILL consider it "relevant" even though they haven't been in a Church or Mission in sometimes 25 years!!!!

What was/is it about Scientology that can dig in SO DEEP and STAY THERE for so long? :confused2:

I too find this incomprehensibly baffling! Its like you want to grab and shake their shoulders and yell "wake the fuck up!"

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

"...that the world could be a better place" - taj

janis joplin said "i'm not a hippie. i'm a beatnik. hippies want to change the world. beatniks know you can't."

I know that deep down you are a hippie too.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...."

I love Janis, but John trumps Janis.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Helena Handbasket]

WORD!

WTF does "WORD!" mean?

Helena

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Perhaps the word is love.

 

[Idle Morgue]

The "worst" is that people still actually think and talk about it TEN, TWENTY or MORE YEARS after they have LEFT! :confused2:

Some STILL consider it "relevant" even though they haven't been in a Church or Mission in sometimes 25 years!!!!

What was/is it about Scientology that can dig in SO DEEP and STAY THERE for so long? :confused2:

For me, BETRAYAL of spiritual freedom! The MIND CONTROL techniques, taking advantage of people when they are down.

The lies, the deceit, the inhumanity of a "church" preaching HELP! SELLING "forgiveness - when Hubbard made fun of churches that did that long ago. Selling HELP at a cost that is out of reach for most people. Slave labor and inhumane treatment. YUCK - it is really a horrible Organization!

I am new and only out a short time. I use ESMB to vent my frustrations and anger - which is appropriate emotions to have. Delivering the effective blow to the cult by getting others out is helping me recover. Making up the damage I did by getting people in. When I am not on here - I am nurturing my spirit - doing lots of good things for others. I have found a new place to hang my hat spiritually speaking. I believe that the cult really helped me find spiritual freedom because I now know what HELL is when one does not have a higher power - whatever that is to that person.

The intentions of all of us were so good - we wanted to help others and ourselves. Make the world a better place. Did you ever really do that in Scientology? I never saw it and the cult would not let me do anything really valuable due to the control - the only thing anyone could do is give money or make others give money.

We can make a difference in this world and if each of us just helped our family, helped our community - it has a trickle effect and we all will make the world brighter. Love and forgiveness is all there is. I, of course, have a way to go forgiving this cult - but I am working on it daily and someday very soon I will be free of the cult taking up any more of my "attention units" as they say in the cult.

I do think it is important to let everyone you know about the crimes this Organization does to others. I am in screaming affluence on that one! Hip hip and all that jazz!

 

[Gadfly]

The "worst" is that people still actually think and talk about it TEN, TWENTY or MORE YEARS after they have LEFT! :confused2:

Some STILL consider it "relevant" even though they haven't been in a Church or Mission in sometimes 25 years!!!!

What was/is it about Scientology that can dig in SO DEEP and STAY THERE for so long? :confused2:

I too find this incomprehensibly baffling! Its like you want to grab and shake their shoulders and yell "wake the fuck up!"

I was talking about "critics" . . . . . . .

The people who STILL spend moderate amounts of time involved with the subject of Scientology, by thinking about it, and talking about it. Even though they "left" many years ago. The people who STILL allow Scientology to control their responses, reactions, attentions, time and energy.

I am not being critical of crtiics. I am simply making a comment about an observation.

For me, I will be be glad when the Church of Scientology no longer exists, and there is then nothing to talk or think about in its regard (not FOR it, and not AGAINST it).

My point was that the subject of Scientology sucked some of us in as participants and believers, and on the other side of the coin, it still has the power to suck some of us in as "crtiics" and "antagonists". In a certain sense, for some, it still very much has the power to "pull you in", and get you thinking and talking about it. For these folks, it STILL has substantial meaning and significance. Some got all wrapped up with it as a Scientology church member, and now these same folks, some at least, continue all wrapped up in it as a critic. But, being all wrapped up is being all wrapped up.

I forget which Indian teacher mentioned this, but responding to anything, as an automatic reaction of a sort, with either affirmation or denial, is STILL letting IT control how you think and feel. One is STILL "involved". Or, in other words, resisting something keeps it there just as much as if you were supporting the something. The only real way to make something diappear and go away is to forget all about it, to neither support or attack.

That is the nature of "attention".

Note: I realize completely that the above may not be popular to say. Also, I am talking about this from the angle of psychology and personal therapy.

 

[WildKat]

The "worst" is that people still actually think and talk about it TEN, TWENTY or MORE YEARS after they have LEFT! :confused2:

Some STILL consider it "relevant" even though they haven't been in a Church or Mission in sometimes 25 years!!!!

What was/is it about Scientology that can dig in SO DEEP and STAY THERE for so long? :confused2:

We invested our hopes and fears in it. And those do go deep.

 

[Gadfly]

We invested our hopes and fears in it. And those do go deep.

Well, I myself figured out and learned a LONG time ago now, that there were and are MY HOPES.

I just found other places to AIM my hopes.

People confuse their own hopes and dreams with the temporary and fleeting objects of life and reality.

They were ALWAYS YOUR hopes and dreams.

Also, it is a mistake to view this as an "investment". When one looks at it that way, one generally wants to "get something back". I look at it as a "creation". YOU CREATE your hopes and dreams. And, some of us made the mistake of ATTACHING our hopes & dreams to the subject and practices of Scientology. THAT was the mistake.

Attach them to something else. Or better yet, attach them to NOTHING at all, and just choose to have great hopes and dreams!

One doesn't need an institution or religion or philosophy to get you to exhibit your hopes and dreams. Forget about all the props of reality that get you to hope and dream, and just HOPE & DREAM.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

The "worst" is that people still actually think and talk about it TEN, TWENTY or MORE YEARS after they have LEFT! :confused2:

Some STILL consider it "relevant" even though they haven't been in a Church or Mission in sometimes 25 years!!!!

What was/is it about Scientology that can dig in SO DEEP and STAY THERE for so long? :confused2:

In many ways, it's a perfectly interesting showcase to explore the thresholds of human gullibility, and by doing so, better judge what might or might not be real in ones current life or beliefs.

Well, that's why I find it fascinating, anyways.

But, it's not just Scientology, I really enjoy learning about hoaxes of all kinds as a relaxing and pleasurable hobby. And having a place to play with creative thought and writing is even more fun. It is what I do when I don't feel like running my companies or thinking. I honestly don't have to think at all when I am here on ESMB, it is a kind of meditation, you might say.

 

[WildKat]

And, some of us made the mistake of ATTACHING our hopes & dreams to the subject and practices of Scientology. THAT was the mistake.

Yes, a key point! People can have their own separate hopes and dreams that, they are made to believe, can be furthered by Scientology.

How many young people have the fairly common dream of being an actor or actress and becoming famous, like Tom Cruise? And they are told directly or it is inferred, "Scientology can help you achieve that!" It worked for Tom, right?

These promises are eagerly scooped up by idealistic (and especially young) people with their own hopes and dreams. You can be an actor, an artist or sports celebrity.

The idea is sold, and bought, that Scientology can help you do whatever it is that is nearest and dearest to your heart.

 

[Gadfly]

In many ways, it's a perfectly interesting showcase to explore the thresholds of human gullibility, and by doing so, better judge what might or might not be real in ones current life or beliefs.

Well, that's why I find it fascinating, anyways.

But, it's not just Scientology, I really enjoy learning about hoaxes of all kinds as a relaxing and pleasurable hobby. And having a place to play with creative thought and writing is even more fun. It is what I do when I don't feel like running my companies or thinking. I honestly don't have to think at all when I am here on ESMB, it is a kind of meditation, you might say.

Hoaxie, I am sure that you already KNOW, on many different levels and angles, all about the HOAX known as Scientology. There isn't much for you to "learn" - not anymore.

But I agree on the later part completely. For me, in the past, I needed a place to go and write. I enjoy writing, and this here gave me an excuse to do so.

There is no doubt that the subject and practices of Scientology provide an IMMENSE wealth of idiocy, contradictions and absurd behaviors that can and do act as endless FODDER for anyone with a good sense of humor (like you).

Really, where else can somebody find such an endless reservoir of STUPID to joke and kid about? :confused2:

At the moment I don't have much interest in mulling over all the things I have in the past about Scientology. I have looked closely, I have observed, and I have posted my observations here on ESMB over the years. For me, I understand as much about it all as I need to - I could probably write a few books on it. For me, the onion has been fully peeled, and I "get it" from a great many angles and views.

But, I did just now look over for a second what exactly it was that kept me looking at it. What kept drawing me to talking about Scientology? What still gnawed at me?

It was the BETRAYAL. I think we all react to INJUSTICE and HYPOCRISY at an almost primal level. I know that I do. I was MAD for so long. Mad about the many examples of hypocrisy that punched me in the face while dealing with that insane organization. Mad at how the Church of Scientology would discard and waste good and decent people with phony Comm Evs and over-posturing SP Declares. On and on.

It was the never-ending examples of contradictions, where Hubbard or Scientology would CLAIM one thing, all sweet and nice and good and decent, but then BE something else entirely different. I have always rebelled against PHONIES, and superficiality. My experiences with Scientology were a constant parade of those things.

And, once I was out, I came to discover the biggest betrayal of them all about Scientology.

Hubbard talked of "betrayal", and how we have each have been betrayed so much over our past eternities. He brought up how we have been tricked by promises of "help" in the past, how Scientology "help" was legitimate, and how you would NOT fall victim to "failed help" again. Ron promised you, and if Ron said so, then it "must be true". Hubbard promised that this was the Road to Freedom, and the ONLY way OUT OF THE TRAP.

The biggest betrayal of all was that he used the HOPE of freedom to once again TRAP YOU!!!!! He planned THAT! He seems to have actually INTENDED that! That is really nasty. That is an example of humanity operating at the absolute dregs of possibility (oh, the "dregs", the "Dixie Dregs" - gotta remembre that for that "other thread" on music . . . ).

And, yep, you are right Hoaxter, this has to do with the varied and interesting world of tricksters, confidence men, deceivers and HOAXES of all sorts!!!!

Scientology took the "con" to a whole new level.

See, most cons hook people by thier own GREED. Without the greed of the "mark", often the con artist could never succeed. The deceiver waves "instant wealth" and other desirable things in front of your face. Hubbard waved the BIGGEST desire and hope of all: FREEDOM!

And, there are a near infinite range and number of things to be "interested in". The day any of us lose interest in something, in anything, then we might us well just curl up and die, and/or merge back into the Nothingness from whence we came. Interest is what directs our "attention". When any person stops imbueing life with "interest" that is the day the world stops existing for him or her.