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The Worst Thing You Can Do To Yourself As an Ex-Scientologist

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Alanzo, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    People need simplistic explanations for Scientology because it’s too much work to understand it.

    They just want Scientology to be a cult & Hubbard to be a con man because it’s easier to think with that way.

    Even an Ex-Scientologist can go through a period where this is what they want.

    In the long run, that’s never going to work. So even though this need for simplistic understandings is understandable, in the end, it will never do what you need it to do.

    But even this is not the worst thing you can do to yourself as an Ex-Scientologist.

    Audio file:

    So this is about how inadequate the Anti Scientology ideology is to understand the things that we see in Scientology watching.

    Just as the Scientology ideology was was inadequate to handle, you know, large sections of life, the anti Scientology ideology is to! There's, there's a lot of parts to this. And I could go on and on about.

    There's, you know, first of all "cults". It's not a minority religion. It's a cult. It's not a fierce tribe, fierce and harsh tribe. It's a very specific thing. It's a "cult".

    Brainwashing, and mind control and brainwashing are of course, choice denying, choice annihilating mechanisms.

    So therefore, the people who are Scientologists are Scientologists because they're brainwashed to be that way.

    Well, you know, actually, that's not true. They, they made a choice. And every morning they get up and they make that same choice every day. To remain a Scientologist. The degree that you want to deny that person, his own power of choice is the degree to which you would like to dehumanize him. Because it is the power of choice that makes people human. It's what we say, gives them agency. It's the basis of all law and rights and civil rights.

    If a person was in a car accident and has brain damage, then they're not capable of making their own choices anymore. So we recognize that state and we signed them a minder, right? Like Tony Ortega is always say that Shelley Miscavige was seen with a minder, right?

    So, again, this is making the point that Scientologists don't have a power of choice.

    So I I'm not saying that, that that's just part of this part of the anti Scientology ideology. Okay.

    And that's inadequate to understanding Scientologists. It's not adequate.

    You will not be able to see what you're looking at if you use that viewpoint. If you use the brainwashing, Mind Control viewpoint, that you believe that their ability to make a choice for themselves has been annihilated and that they're not. It's not that you believe they're mistaken, you believe there an actual robot, less than human, who is unable to be responsible for his own choices. That's what you think.

    And that, again, is not adequate to understand Scientologists.

    A great example, the best example, is Elisabeth Moss. Loyal Scientologist. Brilliant actress. Brilliant artist. Yet a loyal Scientologist. So does Elisabeth Moss not have the power of choice? She really, you know, she doesn't get up every morning and decide to be a Scientologist?

    Is she brainwashed?

    See that that's just, that's the point where maybe you can see that the anti Scientology ideology is inadequate to understand somebody, like, understand a scientologist like Elisabeth Moss.

    I would submit to you that you won't be able to understand any scientologist, let alone Elisabeth Moss, believing that they're not choosing to be Scientologists, every single day.

    Consciously choosing.

    Self aware power of choice.

    Every day.

    If you look at a Scientologist that way, then your understanding of a Scientologist changes. There's all kinds of stuff that starts to collapse on you, if you have adopted this anti Scientology ideology. You can't have that viewpoint about Scientology and Scientologists anymore.

    And I, I invite you to try it.

    I invite you to embrace both anti Scientology AND Scientology viewpoints and process both.

    Do not occlude - if you're an ex scientologist, and you spent many years in Scientology, the worst thing you can do to yourself is to say, "I wasted 30 years of my life, 20 years of my life!"

    What you're doing there is that you are occluding that whole part of your life - from yourself. You are walling it off by saying that.

    I submit that it is a lie that you're telling yourself about your time as a Scientologist.

    I believe that if you examine that area with less of a ideological viewpoint, anti Scientology, ideological viewpoint, then you would see more about yourself. And you would win a whole bunch of treasure about yourself. If you simply quit looking at your time as a Scientologist through the ideology of being an anti scientologist, if you just drop that and look at it, without fear or favor, just examine it.

    There's treasure there for an ex Scientologist.

    So again, the anti Scientology ideology is not adequate to understand things in a way that is workable. Even I was gonna say constructive. But again, you're looking at things through a little slit, when you should be seeing, you know, like a big wide open door. Walk in the door and look at it. That's the way it should be. Not through little slits of ideological thinking. You made that mistake as a Scientologist. Don't make it again, as an anti Scientologist.

    It's not adequate for you to understand your own past, who you were, what you thought about, what you were trying to do.

    Those are... you can't forget that about yourself!

    Or you are if you, if you re define it, You're redefining it in the worst possible way.

    Why? There has to be a very good reason for that.

    Now, if you were completely abusive, and you you hurt all kinds of people, that I can see why you would wall that part of yourself off. But the overwhelming majority of Scientologists didn't ever harm anyone, and never would!

    Most exes are those people. But when they become antis, they wall this off from themselves. They don't recognize who they used to be anymore - because the anti Scientology ideology doesn't work. It's it's flimsy, it's cartoonish. You can't understand things adequately, if you look at them in a cartoonish way.

    So I think this is the biggest mistake that an ex makes. Okay?

    It can be - sometimes spent as an as an anti-Scientologist, sometimes spent as that can be therapeutic in itself. Because you're, you're like, "Okay, I was totally forced pro for so many years, and now I can be totally forced anti."

    Ok, I can see where that process would would would produce, you know, some kind of gain for you. But there's, there's an end to that process. Okay. That process is not an unlimited process. There's a point where that should end off. That process should end off and you should start stepping back and looking at both objectively.

    Do your very best to look at both objectively.

    And I think that that is the solution. Okay, for an X.

    You have to get to that point. You can't go dive into anti Scientology and then stay there. You can't.

    If you, if you talk about wasting your life?

    Okay, THAT'S wasting your life.

    Over and out.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  2. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    You smoking or taking something you shouldn't be?
  3. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa


    As a long time Anti-Scientologist, I'm puffing on HERESY.

    Cough! Cough! Here! Take it!
  4. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    That's OK when you fully define what you are talking about where you don't have to say,"Don't you see?", in one neat and trim post, then maybe I will see.
  5. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa


    The anti-Scientologist mindset is too simplistic and cartoonish to understand what you were doing when you were a Scientologist.

    Adopting it, for too long, is self-destructive.
  6. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Not here to be an anti Scientologist or a Scientologist. I came here to find out how to get my money back and accomplished that purpose, now I just hang out.
  7. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Dude's that awesome.

    I did the same thing, without ESMB, by about 2004.

    But then it all turned into something else.

    You can deny that it hasn't turned into something else for you, and that it's all chill, freethinker. But that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of people who got themselves involved in Scientology, got out, and adopted the anti-scientology/anti-cult belief system.
  8. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    I think most of them have moved on.
  9. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I know.

    I'm one of those Japanese soldiers they found deep in the Philippine jungle, who never got the word that WWII was over.
  10. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Come out of the jungle, it's over.
  11. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    No it's not.

    And you know it.
  12. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Good luck, it is.
    Veda likes this.
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Ok, I'm going to go ahead and take you seriously.

    I'll pretend this is not just a "Am Not!" Are So!" opposing whatever I say thing you are doing.

    Ill "steel-man" what appears to be your argument to me.

    You are saying that every person who got themselves out of Scientology has NOT adopted the self-destructive and cartoonish ideology of the Anti-cult movement's "brainwashing cult, mind control" paradigm of anti Scientology.

    They've all moved on to a kind of post-EX viewpoint where they've already realized all this, reconciled themselves with who they were as scientologists, and who they were before and after, recovered all the treasure associated with that time of their lives - and all its wholesome and life-giving lessons - and are integrated, individuated and all good.

    It's only ME who is the Japanese soldier stuck in the woods, and no one else.

    Is that your argument?
  14. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    No, I'm not saying that, you are.

    You have been doing this for over a decade and you are no further than you were then, because you are still talking about it.

    If you had a solution, you would have implemented it a long time ago.
    Lurker5 and The_Fixer like this.
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    A decade?

    Personally, I'm pretty sure it was only 4 or 5 years ago, when I saw the same cruelty that made me leave Scientology rampant in Anti-Scientology, too. That's what woke me up.

    What woke you up to the cruelty in anti-scientology?

    When did that happen?

    Tell us about it.
  16. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good point!

    I think the worst thing one could do after leaving Scientology would be to listen to advice from someone who just can't let it go after many years.

    Best advice in my opinion: If you need it, see a therapist. Talk to other ex-Scientologists. Then, let it go.
  17. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Did you report what you saw 4-5 years ago?
  18. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    And how long have you been out of Scientology, Bill?
  19. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    I think Bill will tell you he is out of Scientology. I haven't heard him whine about Scientology at all.
    Lurker5 likes this.
  20. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    First off $cientology is a cult. It preys on unsuspecting people manipulatively sucking them in just as Elcon intended. Secondly the psychology you've fabricated aimed at Ex's is false, misleading and full of nonsense. Thirdly your wacky guru based fallacies and thought policing you incessantly browbeat people with here is silly. lol.