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Thetan as an Energy Source? Or Not?

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Dulloldfart, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    A rose, by any other name.... :whistling:
     
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    from my viewpoint,

    Hubbard said a thetan was a energy production unit. If you substitute the word thetan with person, I think you understand Hubbards rhetoric. maybe not.

    You also have to remove from your mind the metaphysical & spiritual aspect that Hubbard tried to teach. It's a hard one if you read or listened to much of Hubbard. Just say'in. He's very convincing.

    But, of course, the ultimate is it true or not?

    Hubbard's teachings in Dianetics were to go clear. Hubbard's teachings in scientology were about going OT.

    No matter how many ways people slice it,

    there are no clears or OT's.

    But there were many thetans, or people, who joined the bandwagon and became energy production units.

    I was one.
     
  3. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    I agree that there isn't a single living soul who achieved Hubbard's mythical textbook definitions of Clear and OT, but quite a few people did get real and lasting benefits from his counseling procedures, myself included.

    I was just telling my son that Hubbard would have been just as successful (if not more so) if he'd simply told the truth, and not over-sold the benefits of Clear and OT. The actual benefits from doing those levels are real, but personal, and are unique from person to person.

    No, they don't measure up in any way, compared to his grandiose lies descriptions of them, but yes, they do have potential value for those who attain them. Again, this is very subjective and highly personal for each individual.

    * My only caveat to the above, is that I never did the OT levels myself, so my statements about them are based upon observation and the things others have told me about them.
     
  4. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Exactly.
    When I previously mentionned he confused a spiritual being with other states by attributing ego and individuality characteristics, I should have said he confused a spiritual being with a person...this is why he attribute them a desire to be immortal, powerful and knowledgeable...

    All this you leave behind when you die...when we die, the "I am" dies...there is no more "I"...this, we can be certain since the brain dies...

    In spite Dr Hubs tried to appear metaphysical, he didn't make sens...perhasps some of you recal Dr Hubs , in some of ils lecture saying "Your thetan"...This was when I realized he des fooling people and didn't have a clue about the toxic...

    Isn't interesting to learn finally, the we own our thetan...:eek:
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  5. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    I don't agree with that statement at all, but I'll defend to the death, your right to say it.
     
  6. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Then, could you share your view of the "I" ..what it is made of ???
    :cool:
     
    strativarius and programmer_guy like this.
  7. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    You talking to me? ;) Just kidding. :wave:

    The description of a thetan (the 'I') in Axiom 1 works for me. The being is non-corporeal, though it is capable of thought, perception, emotion, decision, and consideration.

    It isn't subject to the laws of the physical universe, though it considers itself to inhabit the material world. It isn't a collection of electrical impulses in the brain, though it uses the brain to process external stimuli transmitted to it via the body.

    It is the life force that animates the body, but it's more akin to a driver, than it is a car. When the car wears out, the driver finds a new one.

    These concepts are not original to Hubbard.

    I am convinced of this, having experienced exteriorization with full perceptics. If you ever experience that yourself, it may make a believer out of you.
     
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I wasn't criticising your English lotus, I just though what you wrote was funny.

    Whiskey? I never drink the stuff, merely the smell of it makes me want to throw up, but here's wishing you many straight up and vertical stats if that's what makes you happy.
     
  9. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    I knew there was a reason I liked you. You're leaving more whiskey for me :D
     
  10. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Fascinating stuff Voodoo. Could you briefly describe how your environment appeared to you while you were in an exteriorised state?
     
  11. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    My pleasure.

    Nothing about the physical environment was different to me - just my perceptions of it.

    As an example, imagine being blind in one eye, and having horribly blurred eyesight in the other, then suddenly seeing the world in perfect focus and in 3-D for the first time in your life. That's exactly how my visual perception appeared to me in that incident.

    Not only that, everything near and far was in crystal clear focus - simultaneously, and I could see in all directions at once. It wasn't disorienting to me in the least, but felt completely natural. 'Forward' was whichever direction my attention was directed.

    And the colors... I can't even describe the brilliance and richness.

    My sense of hearing was similarly enhanced. I swear, it seemed like I could hear ants walking. It was as though my ears had been unplugged for the first time in my life.

    I also had a sense of self that was beyond anything I'd ever experienced. I felt as though I'd suddenly rediscovered my true nature as a living being. Kind of like coming home to the real world after decades of being trapped in some fictitious mental construct. It's a bit hard to express in words, but it was a major component of the experience, and was very profound. I actually felt like weeping for joy.

    I conceived myself to be about the diameter of a quarter. At the same time, I felt as big around as ten city blocks. Most puzzling, but not uncomfortable. I also had no sensations of personal mass or weight.

    I also didn't move from place to place in my travels. I was here, then I was there, as soon as I fixed my attention on some new location.

    There were other perceptions, such as being able to 'feel' the life force and beingness of the plants outside. It was the same as perceiving the life force and beingness of a person standing next to you. You know they're a live sentient being, and not a mannequin because you just do. You can sense their vibes. It was just like that.

    Unfortunately, as soon as I was completely aware of what was happening, I slammed back into my body (which was still in the house). And I do mean slammed. It was a violent re-entry.

    Ask away if you have any other questions. I'm happy to share.
     
  12. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Thank you. If I ever needed to describe my very first acid trip, your post would have served that purpose wonderfully well.
     
    RogerB likes this.
  13. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    You're welcome. I took acid back in the day myself, but it was nothing like being exterior with full perception. Not even close.
     
  14. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    The acid you took obviously wasn't as good as mine.
     
  15. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Oh, I meant to ask you but it slipped my mind @Voodoo. Would you be kind enough to describe what the context of your 'exterior with full perception' experience was? A really good auditing session perhaps? Or did it happen just 'out of the blue' so to speak?
     
  16. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Brother, you only wish you'd had acid as good as the stuff I once had access to. A quarter tab of my dealer's best would send most people to Electric Ladyland for 24 hours. A whole tab would put you in a cartoon fantasy world. For most, it was just too intense an experience to try a second time, but I really enjoyed it.

    I was never the type to get full blown hallucinations. Maybe a bit of 'patterning', but nothing more than that. I did acid dozens of times, but the experience was more cerebral for me. It was nothing like exteriorization with full perception.
     
  17. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    The one incident I spoke of came 'out of the blue'. There have been others over the years, but none in conjunction with Scn auditing. I always wanted to experience that through auditing, but it never happened to me.

    I was at home in the middle of the day, just relaxing with a book, with my stereo on in the background. At some point I paused from my book and began idly daydreaming about something or other, when I noticed I was staring at the ceiling of my closet from just inches away.

    It looked as though I were seeing the surface through some sort of magnifier. I could see the tiniest particles and imperfections.

    As I'm staring in wonder at this (not even wondering how it was possible) I noticed the outdoors through a little window and suddenly found myself outside, hovering close to the edge of the roof (it was a two story house).

    It was then, that I experienced all of the enhanced perceptions I related earlier. This was several years after I'd quit drugs, and maybe two years after I'd completed the Comm Course. I wasn't on any Scn services at the time, and had not yet received any professional auditing.
     
  18. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    You have absolutely no idea what the quality of the acid I took was, so you are speaking out of turn there. As it happens I'm talking about the real stuff, blotter acid, not the later rubbish that called itself acid and came on tabs in the seventies. I don't know what sort of acid you can take that doesn't give you hallucinations, after all, that's what acid is all about isn't it, the 'doors of perception' and all that.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  19. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    You told us that your 'out of the body' experience had nothing to do with scientology and in fact happened before you ever joined @Voodoo, so can you explain why if we had a similar experience, it should make us believers in scientology?
     
  20. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Oooh... Sauce for the goose, but not for the gander? Heh...

    Perhaps you didn't notice, but you said the same thing to me upthread :whistling:

    Where did I say I never had blotter acid? I had that, plus acid in sugar cubes, painted on aspirins, as well as tabs. And I wasn't some wimpy weekend warrior, either. I was a dedicated user for a number of years.

    I have no idea why I never got full blown hallucinations, but I did get something a bit more subtle. I called it "patterning" in my earlier post. I would see uniform patterns in things like grass lawns, street pavement, wood grain, trees, etc. They were low grade hallucinations - just not full blown, like so many others experienced.

    I experienced what I experienced, as did you. Our mileage was obviously different.