ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Thetan as an Energy Source? Or Not?

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Dulloldfart, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    No, go back and read what I said. I had that experience after joining Scientology, but before I'd had professional auditing.

    I've also NOT stated that anyone should believe in Scn if they've had similar experiences. It's up to each individual to make what they will of whatever esoteric experiences they've had.

    No one can judge that for you, but yourself.
  2. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    The WSJ online this morning did an article on a brilliant breakthrough technology that "violates all the laws of physics" and the Laws of Thermodynamics . . .

    Interestingly enough, it is a subject I myself had been muddling along with . . . the harnessing of the magnetic force by converting or redirecting it as usable power/energy.

    The article linked to the sites and demos I can also post here without copyright violations.

    Dennis Danzik has invented a whirligig that calls for the suspension of disbelief and the laws of physics. If it works as advertised, it would rank with the harnessing of steam, electricity and the atom.

    Mr. Danzik, the science and technology officer for Wyoming-based Inductance Energy Corp., says he has invented a magnetic generator, a flywheel system that extracts usable energy from the interplay of exotic magnets—also known as a free-energy device, a cousin to the fabled perpetual-motion machine.

    Mr. Danzik winces at the phrase “perpetual motion,” with centuries of humbug behind it. “It’s a generator,” he said during an interview at IEC’s lab and training facility in Scottsdale, Ariz. Left running, the machines, known as Earth Engines, will eventually exhaust themselves. He just isn’t sure when.

    Snipped . . . . .

    One might expect Mr. Danzik, 61 years old, an industrial engineer but not a trained physicist, to tread lightly, perhaps starting with a small lab apparatus to prove his theories. Actually, he has built several, including Crystal, a 1,222-pound demonstrator fabricated out of Lexan polycarbonate, so as to be literally transparent to visitors and skeptics. As you read this, IEC is live streaming the Crystal from its lab in Scottsdale.

    If Crystal is working as advertised, Mr. Danzik will have revealed a new field in, well, fields, the dynamics among his proprietary magnets and their ability to do work. He will have also achieved something that has eluded great minds from Leonardo da Vinci to electrical pioneer Nikola Tesla. How is that even possible? “Tesla didn’t have rare-earth magnets and digital machine control,” Mr. Danzik said.

    Snipped . . . .

    This link (from above) takes you to the now running live video of the generator along with a write-up:

    Text here is:

    The World’s first Magnetic Propulsion Engine streaming live 24 hours a day!
    You are watching Inductance Energy’s ‘Crystal’ Earth Engine – a revolutionary new laboratory scale engine that can change the way the world creates power.
    Crystal is a fully transparent laboratory scale model of the Inductance Energy Earth Engine. The Earth Engine utilizes the ‘push’ created between two opposing permanent magnets to drive large flywheels to create mechanical power. Crystal is designed solely as a demonstration Engine to demonstrate the attenuation of two opposing magnetic fields ‘pushing’ a heavy flywheel to create power to drive a generator. Crystal’s flywheel weighs in at 622 pounds (270kg) and is limited to 100 RPMs or less due to the strength of it’s acrylic main shaft. In comparison, commercial Earth Engine models can run at several hundred RPMs.
    Thank you for visiting We hope you can stop by again in the days and months ahead to watch Crystal continue to operate. Please share the link with friends and family.
    To learn more about the Earth Engine and applied science of magnetic propulsion visit, or register here to receive future updates.​
    Link to more info:

    also . . .
    Earth Engine
    Power that uses no fossil fuels, produces no heat, and requires no combustion.​

  3. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I only tried acid once and it was during my senior year in high school. It was called Orange Sunshine, or similar, and I was only given a 1/4 tab. But I was lying in bed reading sea org promo and suddenly I was "seeing" LRH waving to me to "come join up"! I got excited and decided to run around the block and I apparently burnt it off as my high was gone by the end of my run. Kind of a waste of some good acid...
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, you'd done the comm course, sorry, I missed that.

    But you said: "If you ever experience that yourself, it may make a believer out of you." I can only assume you are talking about a belief in scientology.

    In all honesty I think this 'exterior with full perception' business is way off into the woo woo, but I imagine you've already grasped that fact by now.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  5. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Friend, you're assuming things that I have not stated.

    When I said, "If you ever experience that yourself, it may make a believer out of you.", I was responding to Lotus, who had voiced the opinion that the "I" dies after body death.

    Going exterior with full perception can give a person the certainty that they are separate from the body and immortal.

    Yes, I've already gathered that you think it's all woo woo, and that's totally okay.
    RogerB likes this.
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I have to tell you that even the phrase 'exterior with full perception' causes my hackles to rise.

    My favourite hobby-horse on this phenomena is that we have all learned to a greater or lesser degree how light is detected by the rods and cones in our eyes, optic nerves, the brain etc. etc... But no one can explain to me how a disembodied being is actually able to perceive the physical universe. 'It just can' isn't a good enough answer for me I'm afraid.
  7. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    How a disembodied being is capable of perceiving the physical universe is a question that's above my pay grade. All I can tell you is that they do, but it's not something that can be easily tested or measured with our existing technology.

    About the closest anyone's ever come to proving it, is in the tests that have been done in various operating rooms, where messages and symbols have been intentionally placed in places where they were only visible from high vantage points, like the ceiling. In some cases where patients reported being out of body during their operations, they recalled seeing those messages and symbols.

    In many instances where patients have been brought back from body death on the operating table, they've been able to accurately describe events and conversations that happened while they were clinically 'dead'.

    I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that the "I" is separate and distinct from the body, and is fully capable of thought, cognition, and perception.
  8. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Oh, Strattie, think my man . . .

    Yes, light is detected by the rods and cones in the eyes, optic nerves, the brain etc. . . . and that is a physical universe phenomena.

    But to answer your question of "how a disembodied Being is able to perceive the physical universe" . . . it does it in exactly the same way as it perceives the "imprints" and effects of light on the bodily pieces you referred to above.

    If one holds that it is a spiritual presence that is operating the body and experiencing/perceiving all the body is going through, then, the real question becomes: "How come, and by what mechanism or practice or power or faculty does the spiritual Presence perceive and/or experience what is occurring to the body?"

    Well, it happens that one of a large number of attributes, faculties and powers of the Spiritual Presence is awareness. Awareness when directed is "attention." Paying attention to what one is aware of and analyzing alignments, relationships and other particulars can be deemed to be the act of perception.

    It is this array of spiritual faculties that my research team and I are delving into.
  9. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    In my experience, what is called the "theta body" is an intermediary suit that is tuned to see and experience this particular universe. I only popped out once while in Ronology and could only perceive a streaked blackness before I desperately pulled myself back into my head, all in all only about 5 seconds worth of exteriorization. The be 3 feet back command apparently exteriorized me out of my theta body suit too.
    However, as a young child I popped out on various occasions, it made me think I had something wrong with me, but I had full perceptions including of my puzzling theta body. It was distinctly male and was most like a transparent Kermit The Frog looking suit of sorts. The puzzling part was how quickly my "guardian angels" knew I was out and came and stuffed me back in. I was puzzled as to who empowered them to have dominion over me and why won't they just leave me the fuck alone?
    This all was why I got into Scientology as Rosicrucianism had too many gaps in it.
  10. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Fellas, on the issue of being able to demonstrate the faculties Voodoo is speaking of (and here, Voodoo, you can put it within your pay grade!!) . . . this guy, Michael Rinaldi invited me to Viewer711's event . . . he is a buddy of mine I have posted on in the past here on ESMB.

    In 2016 he won the International Remote Viewing Association's competition as being the BEST remote viewer in the world.

    This link is from an email I got from him earlier this week:

    Per this site:
    About Viewer711
    Educational courses of core curriculum of Controlled Remote Viewing as developed within the US military’s remote viewing program, enhanced by unit member Lyn Buchanan, of Problems>Solutions>Innovations, Inc.

    Also, for info on true "scientific studies" done to verify the existence of these faculties, look up the work of Dean Radin.

    Here is a superficial Googlie-foolie on him:

    Website of Dean Radin
    See my new website at Dean Radin, now available. Dean.

    Dean Radin is a parapsychology researcher. He has been Senior Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, in Petaluma, California, USA, since 2001, served on dissertation committees at Saybrook Graduate School and Research Center, and former President of the Parapsychological Association. Wikipedia
    Born: February 29, 1952 (age 67 years), New York, NY
    Education: University of Massachusetts Amherst, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    Voodoo likes this.
  11. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    OK, and what might that be pray tell? We know how the brain does it, and since I'm a 'non believer', perception stops there for me, but you still haven't told me how the extra step is accomplished, how this information is somehow transmitted to the 'thetan'.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  12. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Dag, written in your piece above is actually some of the answer being looked for . . . you write that you are aware of having exteriorized and with degrees of perception, if flawed and streaky . . . but then you started to think weird things about it!

    Inval and thinking negative thoughts about such things does actually alter and or turn them off!!!!

    Alan Walter addressed this scenario to clean up and recover such awareness and capacities. He and I brought about what we refer to as the "Thoughts are Things R/D" . . . one can use it to lift off the dopey think we have all encumbered ourselves with.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    Voodoo likes this.
  13. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    Ah the classic body-mind problem. Have you tried to apply Alfred N. Whitehead's approach to this?

    I might suggest this paper, though it is somewhat "heavy" because it uses a lot of analytic philosophy terms:
  14. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Naah! Not me mate, you mean DagwoodGum. I've experienced some 'transcendental' episodes via drugs (but not exclusively drugs) some of which could be described as a form of 'religious experience', but exteriorisation? Nope, not guilty.
  15. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I must confess that I haven't. I suspect that if I could understand more than a fraction of it, Roger Penrose's theory as elucidated in 'Shadows of the Mind' could be one that I subscribe to.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  16. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    The body-mind problem is a very old one in Philosophy and over the years has been approached by many very keen minds with a variety of ideas and ways of reasoning.

    I'm partial to analytic philosophy more than continental or pre-modern philosophy, because frankly I find it to be less mumbo-jumbo.

    You can always start with the simple wiki article on the body mind problem and go from there. I've suggested Whitehead because he is both relatively modern, analytic, less-dense than some and his idea is novel (as opposed to the purely materialistic stuff we all know)–body_problem
    lotus and strativarius like this.
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Oh I had no thoughts going on whatsoever!
    I had been immersed in a conversation with a seasoned staff member, he was LRH Com, and he sprang the be 3 feet command on me out of the blue when I'd not heard of it heretofore as he had a hunch it would work on me.
    I instantly felt just exactly like a baby bird who'd been thrown out of its nest into the thin air with undeveloped wings and all that I was conscious of was pure blind panic.
    I found myself clawing myself back into the drivers seat ASAP with tremendous relief once I was safely back in.
    It was the unexpectedness of it that made it work upon me but the unexpectedness of the command left me with nary a thought regarding it, it was just a pure experience without any attached thoughts.
    The panic I felt was instantaneous and without reason because, consciously I welcomed exteriorization, or so I thought.
    Apparently I harbored some worries about losing my body to a hostile takeover by another but those concerns had to be deeply seated and beyond my consciousness.
    I've never been out since and that was 1972.
  18. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Ahh, OK, Dag . . . I was referring to this part of your post, not the in Ronolgy imposition.

    That part highlighted in red is the classic kind of thought that changes what is . . .

    But no worries, it is not something to sweat over.

    Though to be noted relative the Ronolgy incident is the point that, that which one does not want to experience, if desperate enough, will really get turned off.


    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  19. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yeah, back when I was very young I only knew what had been conveyed to me, which was "back in the body for you buster, that's where you are supposed to stay" from the guiding beings or prison guards. For all I know they will escort me from my death bed to wherever I'm "supposed to be" next. Then when I got older I noticed that no one could relate to my exterior experiences and it was implied that I must have something wrong with me because these experiences are not "normal". My mother would have none of it! So I learned to watch what I divulged whenever things got a little bit out there. And many times it did.
    But I never expect anyone to believe my past experiences such as exteriorization because I wouldn't believe either had I not experienced them and even sometimes I shake my head in disbelief though I can't help but know that they happened.
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    Dulloldfart and Voodoo like this.
  20. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Verrrry interesting. I'm intrigued.