Thinking Critically About Scientology, Psychiatry, and Their Feud

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
So I noticed Emma suppressing communication, and I then I specified two exact threads where I observed her doing this. It's merely an observation.

Re-read post three above for context.

I am not upset about Emma's suppression of communication of views that she disagrees with. I figure it is her own free choice whether she wants to be message board founder or message board supreme cult leader or message board administrator. I see no rational reason to be angry or upset about this.

Maybe Alanzo was reactively or legitimately pissed at Emma's suppression of his communication on his thread: "I Love Scientologists". Or maybe not. Maybe he just is exercising his own free choice or whether to communicate or not to communicate.

I essentially like and therefore also mostly believe in the basic idea of rationally free communication within a rationally free civilization. I am not particularly fond of and therefore do not also much believe in the basic idea of irrationally suppressed communication within an irrationally suppressed civilization. I suppose there are a great many gradations between the two ends of this rather intriguing dichotomy.

I believe that Ron Hubbard did much good for civilization back in May of 1950 when he introduced Dianetics. This was, in my view, certainly an improvement over psychiatry of 1949. I suppose there was then a 'battle of ideas' ... perhaps for some still ongoing today.

It is obvious to me that Ron Hubbard had the better idea in 1950 when he introduced the idea of erasing the engram. A psychiatrist in 1949 got a nobel prize for the idea of doing quite the exact opposite, adding in engrams, specifically with icepick through the eyehole with extreme electric shock producing the painful engram of unconsciousness.


Reference: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=3772


As you may have noticed, I am simply and quietly communicating my own viewpoint here, and without immersing into heated irrational argument. The next several centuries of future history should be very interesting.

No you are not, Magpie. You are shit stirring, and you know it.

What's caused you to pop up out of know where and start causing trouble by bad mouthing Emma? You say you see no rational reason to be angry or upset about it, but you are going on about it. I see no rational reason for you to have commented in the first place. You should have just kept it to the topic, even though your particular arguments are nonsense, you are entitled to them.

Dianetics did not change the world for the better. Scientology doesn't even practice Dianetics any more (except to get people interested in Scientology). Why, because it does not work. Hubbard went after Psychiatry as a vendetta, not out of altruism. Hubbard ripped people of, put children to work, lied to people, avoided his tax, and exploited many people. This is the man that gave us Dianetics. You still want to argue about how brilliant it is?

You are going to have to do much better than you have so far to convince me that Dianetics (or Scientology) is anything other than a fraud and a general waste of time.

Neo
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Introduction by Webmaster: When I was in Hubbard's the 'Sea Organization', in 1971, Hana Eltringham was known to me as Deputy Commodore... appearing on many Flag Order's ( Official Policy Directives of the Sea Organization) as D/Commodore Hana Eltringham. Hubbard was "Commodore", Hana was D/Commodore. She was the Highest ranking Sea Org member...in the history of Scientology...

The Psychiatric Times
Volume VIII, No. 6 $9.00
The Newspaper of American Psychiatry
June 1991

Prozac Frees Ex-Scientology Leader from Depression

A personal aide to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard for eight of her nearly 20 years with the group says that fluoxetine (Prozac) and therapy have finally stopped the depression and suicidal ideation she had suffered since 1976. "I have to speak out" Hana (Eltringham) Whitfield told The Psychiatric Times, "The Scientologists choose the most prominent psychiatrists and the most successful drugs to attack, That's why they attacked Ritalin, and that's why they are now attacking Prozac."

Although trained as a nurse in South Africa. Hana said she didn't realize that she had a mental block toward seeking therapy because of the hatred for psychiatry taught by Hubbard and maintained by his followers. "It took me five years to get over the fear of going to a counselor. therapist, or anyone connected with the psychiatric field.- she said. Then, in 1989, she and her husband, Jerry, also a former Scientologist read 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan. "Suddenly we realized that there was such a thing as mind control, that it was practiced by Scientologists and that we had been subjected to it." she said.

It was only then that the "cult personality" began to fracture, once it did, Hana said she gained some frightening insights:

• "Scientology makes people into clones of Hubbard. You can't think except within the parameters he has set.

• "Auditors (Scientology counselors! are unlicensed practitioners who don't know that they are putting people into trance states and using desensitization techniques that appear to work for a time but then the problem recurs or is replaced by another one."

It was physical illness, depression, and suicidal ideation that finally pushed Hana out of Scientology. "I got a terrible headache during an auditing session in 1974 and from then on for 10 years I was almost never without a migraine." she said. According to Scientology. Hana is "Clear #60" - she was the 60th person to reach Hubbard's nirvana state." Therefore, it was embarrassing to Hubbard that she was having the headaches since "clears" are not supposed to have physical or emotional problems. He even supervised her auditing personally for two years, but the headaches didn't improve. In fact. Hana said, "she was constantly depressed and the last five years constantly suicidal. The headaches were so bad I1 couldn't work two or three days a week, and even the vibration of a person walking in the hall outside my room made the pain excruciating. I am five feet nine Inches tall and I weighed only 125 pounds."

Looking back, Hana said the trance state of the auditing process, which heightens awareness accounts for the headaches she suffered. Hubbard was hypersensitive, too. Particularly to smells, she said. "He would fly into rages it he could smell soap in his shirts or if the cleaning girl used a product whose smell irritated him." The trance state also makes people more suggestible and easier to control. Hana said. She and others she knew experienced leaving their bodies and other altered states. "This was what Hubbard wanted us all to attain permanently;" she said. "Now I'm aghast to think about it."

continues here:
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/psychiatric-times-1991.htm
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scientology auditing can be harmful

Thanks for posting this, Arnie. The badly mistaken idea that scientology auditing only helps people needs to be thoroughly debunked. Factually, many get worse from auditing, even when it is "on-Source" and "In-tech". In Hana's case, even when it was personally supervised by L. Ron Hubbard himself.
 

Carnaubawax

Patron Meritorious
This is misuse of "moral equivalency". Scintology is not morally or intellectually equivalent to psychiatry. Scientology is an amateurish quackery and psychiatry is a profession.

Granted that psychiatry has its bad results but bear in mind

1) Scientology refuses to touch the mentally ill , to help them or to make them better. It's only performance in this regard has been to take individuals and make them crazy.

2) psychiatry specializes in dealing with the mentally ill.

The twit that wrote this has bought into Scientology propaganda - there is no comparison between the two.

THIS
 

Carnaubawax

Patron Meritorious
Where is there a feud between 'psychiatry' and 'Scientology'? Certainly Scientology is anti-'Psychs' (not just psychiatry), but, for the most part, psychiatry, psychology and related fields and organizations totally ignore Scientology.

Rightly so, since it's a social disease better addressed by police agencies, and, on an individual basis, by social workers helping to reintegrate the displaced and victimized.

Zinj

So true!
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to degraded being

Ron was also working very hard for a long time after 1950. There were the grades, the OT levels, with what Ron himself considered the real "biggie", OT 3. There were also other things such as ethics tech, management tech, study tech, the purif etc. Do you think his later achievements were equally as beneficial for mankind as what he did in 1950.?

I think that the scientology grades can be helpful to many people, but there have been improvements over those in other practices. Now, there are no Operating Thetans. Thus, there are no OT levels. Any claim of such is clearly a fraud and I believe that anyone making such claim should either prove they can produce such a state, or be subject to lawsuit. Ethics tech is at best useless as no condition in life is the same and a pat formula cannot uniformly work to solve any condition, management tech is useless or destructive, study tech was ripped off by Hubbard from Virginia Waddy, Elements of Composition and Rhetoric, Chapter 8, Style. The Purification R/D is an eclectic mix of sauna and exercise, which usually does make a person feel better and has precedent that long predates Hubbard. The vitamin part of it is quack nutrition which has caused liver damage to a few people who have done it.
 

Carnaubawax

Patron Meritorious
No you are not, Magpie. You are shit stirring, and you know it.

What's caused you to pop up out of know where and start causing trouble by bad mouthing Emma? You say you see no rational reason to be angry or upset about it, but you are going on about it. I see no rational reason for you to have commented in the first place. You should have just kept it to the topic, even though your particular arguments are nonsense, you are entitled to them.

Dianetics did not change the world for the better. Scientology doesn't even practice Dianetics any more (except to get people interested in Scientology). Why, because it does not work. Hubbard went after Psychiatry as a vendetta, not out of altruism. Hubbard ripped people of, put children to work, lied to people, avoided his tax, and exploited many people. This is the man that gave us Dianetics. You still want to argue about how brilliant it is?

You are going to have to do much better than you have so far to convince me that Dianetics (or Scientology) is anything other than a fraud and a general waste of time.

Neo

Dianetics changed nothing until the 60's when Ron went Psychotic. After that he was no longer the charming con artist, but LRH the sadistic lunatic who formed the 'Sea Org', and wielded the 'conditions' with careful cruelty. What it changed from then on was people's minds, and it changed them in a very negative way.

I s it Magpie or Cuckoo"
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
Dianetics changed nothing until the 60's when Ron went Psychotic. After that he was no longer the charming con artist, but LRH the sadistic lunatic who formed the 'Sea Org', and wielded the 'conditions' with careful cruelty. What it changed from then on was people's minds, and it changed them in a very negative way.

I think there is ample evidence to show that Hubbard was psychotic in the early 1950's. His psychosis just became more intense in the 1960's.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think that the article fails to adequately research the two fields as well as the actual circumstances of 'abuse' that may be prevalent in them.

Whereas Psychiatry may have it's abuses, it is not a cult that was formed to pay homage to a 'leader' and serve the fears and inadequacies of a criminal's psychological illnesses.
 
Top