THIS IS WHY

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think Alex has this one.
I'd have to ask why she doesn't just say her name if she was already messed with and has her daughter back?
It's not like the people at that org wouldn't know who she was.

I wish that were a true story.:confused2:

Yeah well there are folks on this board with little to loose by exposure but still remain 'under cover'. Odd thing but the Co$ has that effect on people. This person hasn't been out that long. Don't know if it's true but sounds sincere and real.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Flawed argument!

A couple of interesting inconsistencies in the email....

Writer refers to selling the basics previous to 2002, when they were not yet released for several years.

And no org delivers auditing in a conference room. An HGC hardly resembles a conference room.

Its weird that someone would stop at ot 2 also, as 3 is pretty cheap, most people stop after 3...she said she had paid for "most of the preparation courses" for ot3, yet if she is ot 2, the only course she would need is the ot3 course.

I smell a concocted story.

Sorry. but my opinion.

alex (it was moving though....)

-The point you make about when she was selling the basics is a moot one - she is still obviously upset and the point she was trying to make, was simply that both she and her daughter were contributing.

- In our org, when we ran out of auditing rooms, we audited in the bathroom, and even in the cafeteria kitchen at times!

- I've known many who stalled/parked at OT 2 for a while, before being ready and having the circumstances conducive to starting 3.

While some who are still within the ranks of the CofS could and would be capable of making up such a story (especially those who work in OSA), I don't know of any who are 'out', who would bother! - Why would they? For what purpose? There are SO MANY stories like this one!

One can refute or find out-points with anything and everything if one wants to. It hardly seems like a valid thing to do with this story. To me it just came straight from the heart - and when that's the case, often attention to relevant detail (for the receiver) is missed.
 

ttamaad

Silver Meritorious Patron
One can refute or find out-points with anything and everything if one wants to. It hardly seems like a valid thing to do with this story. To me it just came straight from the heart - and when that's the case, often attention to relevant detail (for the receiver) is missed.

Here here!!! another person has made it out. Lets celebrate. We don't even need to know if its true, particularly, as long as another family has managed to extract themselves and made peace with each other
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess an anonymous story like that you have to take with a grain of salt because who knows who really wrote it? But we've all heard enough of these stories to know these things really happen. But it does kind of bother me she refers to the ED as the president. Seems like a real staff person would get the name right. CC has a president but it's the only one I know of. But maybe she just used the wrong name who knows? The prep courses for OT 3 bothers me too. OT 2 is the prep for 3. If you were off solo for a while you might have to do some retread of auditor training but it's the only thing I can think of unless there was some special program. Or unless they said you have to do the basics course first which wouldn't surprise me. But again who knows?
 

Feral

Rogue male
A few orgs have had presidents, I think flag had one too.

Also Tory advised newbies to muddle detais to make it harder for OSA to spot them, she suggested changing gender, location etc.

As a good example, Alex has in the past indicated his affection for Emma, but here is his my space liink, does this girl look like a 48 year old Alex? There can be many explanations for 'out points'. They don't simply always point to the fact that the story is bogus.http://www.myspace.com/109829039


I guess an anonymous story like that you have to take with a grain of salt because who knows who really wrote it? But we've all heard enough of these stories to know these things really happen. But it does kind of bother me she refers to the ED as the president. Seems like a real staff person would get the name right. CC has a president but it's the only one I know of. But maybe she just used the wrong name who knows? The prep courses for OT 3 bothers me too. OT 2 is the prep for 3. If you were off solo for a while you might have to do some retread of auditor training but it's the only thing I can think of unless there was some special program. Or unless they said you have to do the basics course first which wouldn't surprise me. But again who knows?
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
For once I agree with Alex.

"it was moving...."

Yes, Alex it was moving and it should, because it reveals the truth about the tragedies that the Co$ is party to creating.

But where I disagree with you Alex is your Dead Agenting the story.

I can say that this is a very plausible story, in fact it is the one story of tragedy on the internet that most closely resembles mine.

I am so glad, the end came true.

For me, I am still living daily with the consequences of believing the Black PR of the organization. No it was much more than that, it was also the false promise that was presented by lrh and the Co$.

Emma you deliver. Anonymous yu 'dliver'. Old guard you deliver.

That is what this story is about. Who really delivers and it certainly isn't the Co$.
Why oh Why!!?, I would venture to say it is because the Co$ has no heart, and no soul.
And it is so wonderful to see another couple of souls reunited:yes:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
A few orgs have had presidents, I think flag had one too.

Also Tory advised newbies to muddle detais to make it harder for OSA to spot them, she suggested changing gender, location etc.

As a good example, Alex has in the past indicated his affection for Emma, but here is his my space liink, does this girl look like a 48 year old Alex? There can be many explanations for 'out points'. They don't simply always point to the fact that the story is bogus.http://www.myspace.com/109829039

Actually, every org has a president. It is an OSA post.

My question.....why would anyone make up a story like this. No need to manufacture evidence about the Co$ breaking up families, there's scads of real stories and real evidence. It doesn't make the writer famous....she's anonymous. I see no point in writing this if it wasn't true. I think it is true.
 

Carnaubawax

Patron Meritorious
Often times truth is stranger than fiction. There are people who believe that we never landed on the moon in spite of all the evidence. I believe her.
I mostly believe that they did land on the moon, but if you haven't see this movie, it's worth watching.

http://www.checktheevidence.com/video/Astronauts Gone Wild.mpg

I don't approve of the maker's methods and I don't agree with his conclusions, but it's a heck of a thing to see.
 
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Div6

Crusader
A couple of interesting inconsistencies in the email....

Writer refers to selling the basics previous to 2002, when they were not yet released for several years.

And no org delivers auditing in a conference room. An HGC hardly resembles a conference room.

Its weird that someone would stop at ot 2 also, as 3 is pretty cheap, most people stop after 3...she said she had paid for "most of the preparation courses" for ot3, yet if she is ot 2, the only course she would need is the ot3 course.

I smell a concocted story.

Sorry. but my opinion.

alex (it was moving though....)

She said "the Basics" not "the Basic Books". Div 6 offers many "basic courses". No outpoint there.

Could be referring to an academy, or basic courses courseroom. Ambiguity may be maintained to help conceal the identity.

It is highly unusual, but not unheard of, for someone to not go straight on to III after OT II.....

Only a dmologist would want to counter the wins of Anon. :D
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
A desire for truth doesn't make one opposed to Anon. If anon wants to be effective, they need to tell the truth. I'm assuming they are, but checking when it matters to me.

Trust but verify, a doddering old fool once told me.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
gomorrhan: Trust but verify

true or false
What type of church is it, when things like this can be posted and given the benefit of the doubt and not immediately dismissed by ex-members?
For me, that is the saddest thing.
And THAT is why.
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
To Alex-good call

A couple of interesting inconsistencies in the email....

Writer refers to selling the basics previous to 2002, when they were not yet released for several years.

And no org delivers auditing in a conference room. An HGC hardly resembles a conference room.

Its weird that someone would stop at ot 2 also, as 3 is pretty cheap, most people stop after 3...she said she had paid for "most of the preparation courses" for ot3, yet if she is ot 2, the only course she would need is the ot3 course.

I smell a concocted story.

Sorry. but my opinion.

alex (it was moving though....)

I,too, noticed that-very odd-but why?
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Now, now, I just came in here due to reading this story on another (duplicate thread). And supposedly this story may be FAKE?! :screwy:

NO WAY?

I mean, I DO agree with the inconsistencies with some things that were said in it, but still.....WHO would, and WHY would that story be faked, exactly? :blink:

Regardless, it made me cry. :bigcry: And made me fall in love all over again, with Anon! :touched: :hug:

I still like the story and still say maybe it could be a TRUE one, even with the inconsistencies, ya know? Idk.....:sadsigh:

If this story is true, I wish that woman and her daughter and family all the luck, happiness and success in the world! :yes:

Michelle
 
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KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
gomorrhan: Trust but verify

true or false
What type of church is it, when things like this can be posted and given the benefit of the doubt and not immediately dismissed by ex-members?
For me, that is the saddest thing.
And THAT is why.

Exactly man. cracks me up that so many people are trying to prove if this story was perhaps made up by somebody.

Why would it matter? It doesn't really. If it's true- great. If it's false- who cares? It's not like it's an incredible stretch of the imagination that such a thing occurs ON A REGULAR BASIS.

And what's more is that these people refuting it are on an ex scientologist message board. Scientologists have the hardest time seeing through their indoctrination.... they are on auto pilot to (subjectively) correct any and all potential 'inaccuracies' regarding scientology. They are willing to fight for an inaccurate tech AND against anything that threatens their 'tech view' of the world. Some folks are so far gone that even after they have left the church they go on supporting their belief system beyond reason. What's for sure is that they are incapable of confronting life without the shield of their beliefs, without the supposed abilities that they've 'gained' with the tech.

For those who are on brighter ground... only patience and granting others being-ness to be indoctrinated will enable one to not be pulled down into the mud of their arrogant assumptions.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Could be fake. Some inconsistencies. Do they really do sec checks on people who're OT2 in local orgs? I thought they got routed to the AO, even if the non-interference area is a joke these days. Auditing in the conference room? Yeah, unlikely. Maybe in boom days when the stairwell is full but not as a routine action today when the WDAHs probably has a good week if it makes double digits.

But it's not even a horrific story! Hate to say it, but it's just business as usual. No-one died. Mother and daughter got back together after losing a few years. It is not exceptional at all. And that is what makes it horrific. The fact that such a heart-wrenching tale is routine, day-to-day life, business as usual at the Church of Screwyouology.

Paul
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Exactly man. cracks me up that so many people are trying to prove if this story was perhaps made up by somebody.

Why would it matter? It doesn't really. If it's true- great. If it's false- who cares? It's not like it's an incredible stretch of the imagination that such a thing occurs ON A REGULAR BASIS.

For those who are on brighter ground... only patience and granting others being-ness to be indoctrinated will enable one to not be pulled down into the mud of their arrogant assumptions.

Sorry dude, it TOTALLY matters. What good is false information? Just because things "like this" happen, more lies don't help the cause in any way. And I'm not saying it is a lie but there are enough problems with it to make you wonder. What if somebody reads it and says "wow a senior staff member groped her" and it's not true? Then somebody puts it on a sign at a protest. To me it's very important that all allegations be accurate because if anon or protesters start quoting lies and then the church can prove they are lies it would be a major blow to credibility = Epic fail.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I could think of reasons why one wouldn't start OT III right away, and what prep work might have been required.

If she did her OTII before GAT, for example and ended it at the right time, she might have had to do some retraining before starting III. She might have needed OT Preps before going onto the next level.

Yes, most people go right from II to III, but I know several people who did not.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sorry dude, it TOTALLY matters. What good is false information? Just because things "like this" happen, more lies don't help the cause in any way. And I'm not saying it is a lie but there are enough problems with it to make you wonder. What if somebody reads it and says "wow a senior staff member groped her" and it's not true? Then somebody puts it on a sign at a protest. To me it's very important that all allegations be accurate because if anon or protesters start quoting lies and then the church can prove they are lies it would be a major blow to credibility = Epic fail.


Once again, here we assume it's a lie... so slam it. Gottta be absolutely certain!!!

But, if we talk about the tech, which is full of holes, mixed with massive lies, used mostly to extract compliance within itself... etc... etc.... yet it's OK to stand up for it MOSTLY...

BS.

There's nothing in that story that shows conclusively that's it's a false document.

But it's worth shooting down, cause it might be....??

Go for it. It's just not worth it cause there's no accusation of wrong doing within it that has not already been proven to exist. That's what I'm getting at. Even if it were completely, utterly true... are you trying to tell me that the Co$ would not try to discredit it anyway??

But hey why wait around for the Co$ to get involved... they've got plenty of soldiers right here on the board who think they are 'free of it'....
 
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