THIS IS WHY

[Anonagi]

Finally got the registration to work. Gmail + this work computer + IE5 = bad combination. Greetings from an Anon!

The original email I recieved from her was a little less coherent than this one. She signed her name only as "Ruth" and I didn't have a chance to respond to her immediately. A few days later, I got the Anonymous Hate Crimes + Legal letter package sent to my grandparents' house, accusing me of being a terrorist. My relationship with my grandmother was almost destroyed by that letter that Scientology sent to her house.

I replied back and all I did was ask her if I could share that story. She sounded like she was on the road to recovery, but I'm an Anonymous, not an Ex-Scientologist. All the stories I've read from people that have gotten out sounded similar to this one - there was nothing unique in this story that hadn't been written before. That's why it didn't send up any red flags to me. I had no reason for it to.

The advice I gave her was to spend her time putting her life back together and not end up like some of the Ex Scientologists who have forgotten how to live and gone after the Church with the same intensity they had while inside it. This was a personal opinion of mine and I directed her to the Ex-Sci message board, as I felt it would be the best place to point her as opposed to OCBM, or god forbid, any of the forums we use. The last thing a newly freed woman in her 50s needs is to stumble into Thunderdome or the chans

She wrote me back with a few clarifications to her letter to make it easier to read to people, which is what I posted. The letter was the original with the changes she made, as she asked me to not share the original due to her still being afraid and paranoid. Can't blame her, honestly.

If it IS a fake story, I can't imagine why someone would take the time out to write our cell with it. There are some inconsistancies, rereading it (when not being floored by the emotional impact if it IS true) but what in Scientology isn't double think or contradictions? If it is fake, she's definately fooled me.

This type of story is all too common, which is why I believe it to be true.

(Note - she referred to President simply as "ED". I wasn't sure what that meant. The reworded email used the term President. I know here in San Diego, the President of our org is David Meyer, and he referrs to himself as that, so I don't think that's an inconsistancy.)

If she registers here she may be able to answer questions, I myself can only go off what she told me herself.

 

[Anonagi]

BTW, you guys are all awesome. You help the exes in ways we never could. Thank you so much for doing what you all do

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Thank you!

Finally got the registration to work. Gmail + this work computer + IE5 = bad combination. Greetings from an Anon!
...text deleted...

And greetings back to you! Thanks for you efforts and the data - stay and hang out - you are most welcome!

Roy, the EP's EP

 

[Feral]

Anonagi, Welcome!

AH!! That explains an inconsistancy. ED stands for Executive Director. That is the boss or president of an org.

So this 'sec checking' thing....what did the origional say? Unless she was in an AO she could not get a bona fide sec check.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Anonymous messages lack credibility by themselves. But it all depends. Take this board. Some people are anonymous and some aren't, but if an anonymous person posts 200 messages that are consistent and in line with what has been commonly experienced by most of the people here, that makes the person credible.

Yes, one letter may be fake. As for who would bother, some teenager might, just for kicks, to see how many people get taken in by it. When it gets into a long posting history, if it looks fake the inconsistencies get called here on ESMB. Sometimes we're probably even correct.

Paul

 

[KnightVision]

BTW, you guys are all awesome. You help the exes in ways we never could. Thank you so much for doing what you all do

And thank you for your help. Great work all around!!...

 

[Carmel]

Hey Anonagi,

Thanks for the clarification, although to most of us I think, it wasn't necessary - we were pleased to have it, felt compassion for the woman, and the many in her position.

Good on you and yours for the work you do, and welcome to the board!

Cheers,
Carmel

 

[Free to shine]

I can't believe this thread.

This is NOT an uncommon story! That kind of disconnection is par for the course and the fact that some poor lady - who probably is not computer literate after a life in scio - writes her story and then gets it put under a microscope and questioned and questioned is a good example of why it is hard to tell such stories!

I hope she finds ESMB and thankyou Anonagi!

 

[Once bitten]

Thanks from NZ

Hey Anonagi,

Thanks for the clarification, although to most of us I think, it wasn't necessary - we were pleased to have it, felt compassion for the woman, and the many in her position.

Good on you and yours for the work you do, and welcome to the board!

Cheers,
Carmel

^^This^^

Thanks from NZ exes too

Love Once

 

[riptide]

I can't believe this thread.

This is NOT an uncommon story! That kind of disconnection is par for the course and the fact that some poor lady - who probably is not computer literate after a life in scio - writes her story and then gets it put under a microscope and questioned and questioned is a good example of why it is hard to tell such stories!

I hope she finds ESMB and thankyou Anonagi!

Boy you are not kidding....this happened to my family big time. It why I'm still so pissed off, at myself as well as the cult, for going along with it.

 

[Power Change]

Finally got the registration to work. Gmail + this work computer + IE5 = bad combination. Greetings from an Anon!

The original email I recieved from her was a little less coherent than this one. She signed her name only as "Ruth" and I didn't have a chance to respond to her immediately. A few days later, I got the Anonymous Hate Crimes + Legal letter package sent to my grandparents' house, accusing me of being a terrorist. My relationship with my grandmother was almost destroyed by that letter that Scientology sent to her house.

I replied back and all I did was ask her if I could share that story. She sounded like she was on the road to recovery, but I'm an Anonymous, not an Ex-Scientologist. All the stories I've read from people that have gotten out sounded similar to this one - there was nothing unique in this story that hadn't been written before. That's why it didn't send up any red flags to me. I had no reason for it to.

The advice I gave her was to spend her time putting her life back together and not end up like some of the Ex Scientologists who have forgotten how to live and gone after the Church with the same intensity they had while inside it. This was a personal opinion of mine and I directed her to the Ex-Sci message board, as I felt it would be the best place to point her as opposed to OCBM, or god forbid, any of the forums we use. The last thing a newly freed woman in her 50s needs is to stumble into Thunderdome or the chans

She wrote me back with a few clarifications to her letter to make it easier to read to people, which is what I posted. The letter was the original with the changes she made, as she asked me to not share the original due to her still being afraid and paranoid. Can't blame her, honestly.

If it IS a fake story, I can't imagine why someone would take the time out to write our cell with it. There are some inconsistancies, rereading it (when not being floored by the emotional impact if it IS true) but what in Scientology isn't double think or contradictions? If it is fake, she's definately fooled me.

This type of story is all too common, which is why I believe it to be true.

(Note - she referred to President simply as "ED". I wasn't sure what that meant. The reworded email used the term President. I know here in San Diego, the President of our org is David Meyer, and he referrs to himself as that, so I don't think that's an inconsistancy.)

If she registers here she may be able to answer questions, I myself can only go off what she told me herself.

Well I am back as atrue believer as I was when I first read it.

Alex 3rd partied the situation and I started to believe him ..... :wink2:

 

[gomorrhan]

Alexm, I'm sure, meant no harm. Just advocating taking care. Our 'belief' really doesn't matter. What matters is that the person understands they have help if they need it, and that people understand this is common in the Church, and that people are helped by the protests. They ARE. We know that, some from personal experience, others from reliable reports.

Protests communicate to scientologists. While they may not be allowed to communicate with the protestors, this will actually hurt the Church, because Scientologists believe in open communication. Where that is inhibited, scientologists will see an outpoint. From there on, they will investigate. Every protest plants a seed. When the investigation begins, the Church loses, because truth is hard to suppress, and scientologists can be very determined once they realize there is a problem.

 

[Power Change]

Alexm, I'm sure, meant no harm. Just advocating taking care.

well, I was just trying to be funny...:confused2:

 

[Nurse Pinch]

Firstly, I dont know if every detail is true or not, but the core message sounded pretty familiar to me. I suspect that the lady in question may have changed some details to ensure her identity remains unknown, and that may account for some irregularities (maybe she is clear and put OT2? It doesn't really matter, and it keeps her safe). Anyway, that is my take on it. I found it moving and wanted to share.
Pinchy,

 

[Thrak]

Once again, here we assume it's a lie... so slam it. Gottta be absolutely certain!!!

I'm not assuming it's a lie. I'm saying if there is reason to believe something is fishy take it with a grain of salt.

But, if we talk about the tech, which is full of holes, mixed with massive lies, used mostly to extract compliance within itself... etc... etc.... yet it's OK to stand up for it MOSTLY...

BS.

I'm not standing up for the tech. I think there is some validity to some of it but it is so full of lies it's hard to extract anything worthwhile and it's useless being administered by a suppressive group.

There's nothing in that story that shows conclusively that's it's a false document.

No but for a person who has done some of the OT levels it sounds kind of off to me. She's finished OT2 and is getting sec checked at a local org? Once you've done any OT levels all auditing is done at an AO unless you could get an upper level auditor to do it there and that's pretty rare unless your John Travolta. But who knows maybe she did go to an AO.

But it's worth shooting down, cause it might be....??

I don't think anybody is trying to shoot it down. Numerous people here had issues with certain points and it's worth taking a close look. False information has no value. That's one thing I can say with certainty.

Go for it. It's just not worth it cause there's no accusation of wrong doing within it that has not already been proven to exist. That's what I'm getting at. Even if it were completely, utterly true... are you trying to tell me that the Co$ would not try to discredit it anyway??

I don't see that anybody is trying to discredit anything. I believed it when I first read it and it was funny that I actually had little thoughts about some of the things sounding odd but I ignored them because I wanted to believe it. When Alex wrote that post I thought it was weird that I kind of edited that stuff out of my mind because I wanted to see some more dirt on the church.
Think about it. We are all on this board because we were conned and this happened by not checking the facts and silencing those little voices of disbelief because of "wanting" to believe something. I really don't want to fall for any more BS. I think this story is probably true and want it to be true but I for one have been conned enough and so will try not to silence those little voices of doubt as that's really to me the biggest thing to learn from the scn experience.

But hey why wait around for the Co$ to get involved... they've got plenty of soldiers right here on the board who think they are 'free of it'....

I find one of the best things about this board is that people pick up on trolls pretty quickly. There ARE fakers that show up and it's critical thinking that spots them and points them out. Once again all I'm saying is if something seems fishy look at it very closely before you believe it..

 

[Rmack]

I mostly believe that they did land on the moon, but if you haven't see this movie, it's worth watching.

http://www.checktheevidence.com/video/Astronauts Gone Wild.mpg

I don't approve of the maker's methods and I don't agree with his conclusions, but it's a heck of a thing to see.

I can't get that movie to work, it just keeps loading forever.

There is no way the moon landings were hoaxes, that is just absurd. Too many people involved.

The thing about them that most people miss is; there is no real reason to go to the moon!

It's a stunt! Like climbing Mount Everest or something. It's difficult, dangerous, and very, very expensive, and there's no return for your effort.

The whole idea that you can tell the age of the universe from rocks is a fraud. The various dating methods work pretty good on organic materials, but there are too many assumptions that have to be made to date inorganic materials. You basically decide about how old they are before you start.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool, and would love to go and everything, but there really is no justification for the cost.

 

[Anonagi]

I do understand where the people that are saying this are coming from.

After 9 months of this Anonymous tends to have a saying of "DOX OR STFU" meaning show proof for allegations both good and bad. We're alot different than some core groups of the old guard that claim to be sitting on information but never released it or backed it up, and this ended up causing a split between Anonymous and a few members of the Old Guard. The biggest example of this was when Lerma posted on our boards that he had a BIG suprise that would personally DESTROY DM that he would release in 60 days. When 60 days passed and he produced nothing and other Anonymous asked him about it, Lerma left.

It's one of the reasons that we're encouraging the general public to go to OCMB while encouraging any exes that contact us (no matter how long they've been out) to come either here or ExSciKids. Stories tend to work better than walls of legalese court documents for helping confused and struggling people.

Back to the Dox or STFU issue - Especially among Anonymous, we've learned over the last few months to selectively suspend this rule when not doing so would put other Anonymous or other Ex Scientologists in danger from harassment from the cult. We just had a large situation on our own site (which I run) where we had to ban a long time member because he became a liability to us and the other Anonymous members in San Diego.

A user on WWP who goes by the name of FormerlyIN has had all sorts of stuff happen to her since she blew Scientology this year as a result of us, including nearly being ran down by a private investigator. (Then again, she DID take alot of documents with her.)

If "Ruth" has moved several times and changed her phone number several times, it's entirely possible the cult doesn't know exactly where she is right now. Her daughter must have gone through the same things when she left SO back in 2002.

The only way I could possibly verify with 100% truth that this is accurate would be for me to pressure her to reveal herself, but there is no way to do so without revealing her to Scientology as well. That decision is hers to make, and I will not disrespect her wishes.

All that being said - I came to a realization from reading this letter, and responses to it not just here.

Anonymous will not be the ones to truly take down Scientology. The ones that will finish the job are you, the ex members, and the wave that will expand outward when the people inside cry out for no more abuse and the collapse happens from within.

 

[Stan D'Teque]

Anonagi thank you for posting the story yesterday. I believe Alex got caught out from under his bridge yet again and turned to stone so ignore whatever he says - I'm sure the rest of us here were more than happy you posted. Tell "Ruth" from me I send her a big cyberhug and hope she gets her head around the crap she's been subjected to - it ain't easy being suddenly free!

 

[ttamaad]

All that being said - I came to a realization from reading this letter, and responses to it not just here.

Anonymous will not be the ones to truly take down Scientology. The ones that will finish the job are you, the ex members, and the wave that will expand outward when the people inside cry out for no more abuse and the collapse happens from within.

I like where you are coming from, Anonagi, yes I can see that we will both compliment each other in the downfall of scn

Thanks for everything you guys are doing

 

[Thrak]

I do understand where the people that are saying this are coming from.

After 9 months of this Anonymous tends to have a saying of "DOX OR STFU" meaning show proof for allegations both good and bad. We're alot different than some core groups of the old guard that claim to be sitting on information but never released it or backed it up, and this ended up causing a split between Anonymous and a few members of the Old Guard. The biggest example of this was when Lerma posted on our boards that he had a BIG suprise that would personally DESTROY DM that he would release in 60 days. When 60 days passed and he produced nothing and other Anonymous asked him about it, Lerma left.

It's one of the reasons that we're encouraging the general public to go to OCMB while encouraging any exes that contact us (no matter how long they've been out) to come either here or ExSciKids. Stories tend to work better than walls of legalese court documents for helping confused and struggling people.

Back to the Dox or STFU issue - Especially among Anonymous, we've learned over the last few months to selectively suspend this rule when not doing so would put other Anonymous or other Ex Scientologists in danger from harassment from the cult. We just had a large situation on our own site (which I run) where we had to ban a long time member because he became a liability to us and the other Anonymous members in San Diego.

A user on WWP who goes by the name of FormerlyIN has had all sorts of stuff happen to her since she blew Scientology this year as a result of us, including nearly being ran down by a private investigator. (Then again, she DID take alot of documents with her.)

If "Ruth" has moved several times and changed her phone number several times, it's entirely possible the cult doesn't know exactly where she is right now. Her daughter must have gone through the same things when she left SO back in 2002.

The only way I could possibly verify with 100% truth that this is accurate would be for me to pressure her to reveal herself, but there is no way to do so without revealing her to Scientology as well. That decision is hers to make, and I will not disrespect her wishes.

All that being said - I came to a realization from reading this letter, and responses to it not just here.

Anonymous will not be the ones to truly take down Scientology. The ones that will finish the job are you, the ex members, and the wave that will expand outward when the people inside cry out for no more abuse and the collapse happens from within.

I think you see where I'm coming from on this. I wasn't trying to be a wet blanket on it. I think dox or STFU says it perfectly but I totally don't think this woman should be put under ANY pressure to prove anything. If she feels up to it great if not that's fine too. I just think it's foolish to believe and possibly quote a story from a totally unknown person. I said before false information is useless, I'll revise that to false information is useless unless you are trying to con somebody. I've had the experience of telling people some of my experiences and them thinking I was a "plant" and not telling the truth. A bit maddening when you are telling the truth. But then I found myself having the same fears that they would take the info I was giving and relay it to people I didn't want. I thought they were a plant or spy. This is a bit of a war and so IMHO it's important to get it right.