THIS IS WHY

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm not assuming it's a lie. I'm saying if there is reason to believe something is fishy take it with a grain of salt.

I find one of the best things about this board is that people pick up on trolls pretty quickly. There ARE fakers that show up and it's critical thinking that spots them and points them out. Once again all I'm saying is if something seems fishy look at it very closely before you believe it..

Fair Nuf Thrak,

I appreciate your response and understand the validity of your view.:thumbsup:
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
I don't see anything that really makes me think it's a made up story. On the contrary it all seems too bloody likely to me... I've done what 'Ruth' did.. Disconnected.. And like her, I 'maintained' the disconnection myself. (Different reasons though.)

Well.. I hope that 'Ruth' is a fake name... If she want's to stay anonymous that is.

Ruth.. I'm going to assume that you are real and reading here. Don't be afraid to register on this board and start posting! - You'll be anonymous still. Same goes for you daughter..

But more importantly.. CofS and OSA are not as dangerous as they'll have us believe. We are not bad people for leaving that cult! In fact it's the other way round. The scientologists who stay in there are supporting a supressive and totalitarian cult..

A cult that we need to get rid of. It was a very bad mistake!

Every voice helps!

:yes:
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
WOW, I'm glad you have reunited with your daughter but so saddened that Scientology has the power to convince someone to disconnect from their own Child!!!!
How disgusting, I wouldn't disconnect from a family member and the Higher I think one goes , the more I feel the Church would actually get one to part from their family, No way Hozay, not in a million Zenu years.............
Thanks for sharing this may it be seen here on this board for many to see.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
If "Ruth" has moved several times and changed her phone number several times, it's entirely possible the cult doesn't know exactly where she is right now. Her daughter must have gone through the same things when she left SO back in 2002.

COS has a recent history of tracking people with skip tracing software
which tracks them by social security No. despite changes of name or address. In the US at least. Thus many suprised exes are getting calls about buying basics even after being declared decades ago and much moves etc.
There's a thread or two here somewhere about that.

Its unlikely that Ruth has anything to fear from OSA. They can hardly have the man power to track down everyone who leaves. And there is little
they can do if they did. Someone leaving with lots of documents could be a different matter.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
No org in the US in the last 20 years has done their auditing in conference rooms....Back in the day being the 50's or 60's maybe. No org building would be occupied without the HGC being built. It would not be standard tech to audit like that.

And the OT stuff is just too non sequitor.

Naw its a concoction. Albeit one that tugs at the heart strings. Love those happy endings....

alex

Dude, there has been times where the auditing has been done anywhere. A line of auditors at a table with a line of PCs on the other side.

As long as the PCs "pass" on the preliminary questions they are doing fine.

Hell what you going to say next? That an auditor and A PC wouldn't sneak off to an outhouse to audit if it was the only palce to do so?

Rd00
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
I see no definite inconsistencies along the lines of the "tech" or the "procedures", etc of the Church.

Now the following I'm not saying with the intention of Dead Agenting the story.

I am wondering how she was able to contact her daughter if she did not know she was married unless the daughter kept her same old last name.

Unless she did notice that her name was changed on a later envelope after she was married.

But I do hope that others will reply and state reasons that would refute my doubts.

Other than that I find the story very believable.

Rd00
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
I see no definite inconsistencies along the lines of the "tech" or the "procedures", etc of the Church.

Now the following I'm not saying with the intention of Dead Agenting the story.

I am wondering how she was able to contact her daughter if she did not know she was married unless the daughter kept her same old last name.

Unless she did notice that her name was changed on a later envelope after she was married.

But I do hope that others will reply and state reasons that would refute my doubts.

Other than that I find the story very believable.

Rd00

Believable, yes because it matches common experiences. The general tone and plot are believable. But the details seem to ring bells with almost everyone.

Which raises the question of why.

If this is fake, which I am convinced it is, what is the motivation of the faker?

Is it not unlike the motivation of the Scientologist who does something stupid in "support" of their beliefs?

The pursuit of knowledge, and truth require the ability to see things one does not want to see, to succeed. To pair down the information to the most relevant facts, the core.

When something like this email comes along with very obvious inconsistencies that suggest it was written by someone who had not actually had the experiences claimed in regards the church, it hinders and obfuscates.

For the anti scientology viewpoint it reduces credibility.

Yes I am sure the email and its forwarder mean well, but there is plenty of truth around with out the need for story.

alex
 
Believable, yes because it matches common experiences. The general tone and plot are believable. But the details seem to ring bells with almost everyone.

Which raises the question of why.

If this is fake, which I am convinced it is, what is the motivation of the faker?

Is it not unlike the motivation of the Scientologist who does something stupid in "support" of their beliefs?

The pursuit of knowledge, and truth require the ability to see things one does not want to see, to succeed. To pair down the information to the most relevant facts, the core.

When something like this email comes along with very obvious inconsistencies that suggest it was written by someone who had not actually had the experiences claimed in regards the church, it hinders and obfuscates.

For the anti scientology viewpoint it reduces credibility.

Yes I am sure the email and its forwarder mean well, but there is plenty of truth around with out the need for story.

alex


I agree that the post is flawed and has a few inconsistencies. It does stir emotions. I think the story itself is probably generally true, but with inaccuaracies. That is not the same as being a made up story. The person is writing about a highly emotional and painful period of their life. Again it is not an almanac. If it was written like an almanac, then I would be suspicious.
The lesson here is that for the sake of getting at the truth and allieving doubts about exes credibility, we should be a bit more careful about making inconsistent statements.
I don't know of any historical eye-witness account of events which does not have some inaccuracies. Falsehoods make a story suspect; inconsistencies only make a story sloppy, but not automatically false. I remember how defensive you became once Alex, when someone pointed out the inconsistencies in your story about going to course. I didn't doubt you, I just thought you relayed your situation with inaccuracies, but not falsehood.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Anonagi

Patron
Maybe "Ruth's" daughter sent her another letter when she was in the process of getting ready to blow? Who knows.

People see what they want to see. If you're convinced the story is fake, you'll find details to prove it to yourself. If you believe it's true due to personal experience, then you'll find explanations for the gaps. All I did was pass it on.

For some people it takes years for their story to fully come out. Counterfiet Dreams was one of those ones from what I can tell. Once you get a chance to relax, and be free of the cult, you remember details you wouldn't normally.
 

Pixie

Crusader
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I felt it was a very genuine story and heartwrenching to boot. I know my own timelines of when I was in are still shot to pieces, it's impossible to get all the details right when you're under so much stress and duress and one can be in this state without even realizing it because it happens so slowly over a period of time.
 

Nurse Pinch

Patron with Honors
I personally know of two families where children were involved that were torn apart by the Church's policy of disconnection. In both those cases the "SP" did their A-E steps to get back into good graces and was able to re-connect with their children. I can tell you from speaking to those people that they also had heartwrenching stories of emotional turmoil. Those are wounds that just dont heal (even after auditing :confused2: ). I also know of two families that made the other decision- that is to stay together and lose all their friends. From speaking to those guys, I also know that they have considerable bitterness over the matter, that they even had to make that kind of choice. People that just the week before were having dinner parties with them, suddenly turn cold and refuse to speak to their former friends just because they did something their Church didn't like. They are the same people they were a week ago, but because the org chose to label them SP, their friends can no longer speak to them- not from personal choice, or a dissagreement, but because of fear and intimidation. Thats mind control, its brainwashing, and its not ok.
Look at some of the people you ex's know who got declared. Some of them were bastards, thats true. But some are really nice people who just got nailed. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. How would you feel? How would you feel losing contact with your kids, your parents, or your best friends at the whim of a Church? Control by fear? Doesn't sound like much of a Church worth belonging to to me.
Pinchy.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Maybe "Ruth's" daughter sent her another letter when she was in the process of getting ready to blow? Who knows.

People see what they want to see. If you're convinced the story is fake, you'll find details to prove it to yourself. If you believe it's true due to personal experience, then you'll find explanations for the gaps. All I did was pass it on.

For some people it takes years for their story to fully come out. Counterfiet Dreams was one of those ones from what I can tell. Once you get a chance to relax, and be free of the cult, you remember details you wouldn't normally.

Hey I like that one!!

Great reply!!

So Alex, convinced now that it really did happen?

Better put, which event had the higher probability of occurring?

Her story or the OT3 sotry?

Rd00
 

byte301

Crusader
Course I have the very same thoughts when I'm reading OT Phenomenon stories. Thoughts like, "That's a load of crap," and "Yeah, dude, sure you postulated that car out of your way on the freeway in LA and stopped that tornado in Kansas in a split second."

This story is believable to me, but I'm not here to discredit exes or anons, am I?
 
Top