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This Just In: New Data on LRH's War Record!

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Well, the most fun part for me is always the; 'Ron's Record Is Secret!' chimera.

But, this line stood out:

'While commanding a submarine chaser off the coast of Oregon, L. Ron Hubbard's vessel engaged two Japanese submarines, sinking one and disabling the other.'

Now, it seems to me that a 'disabled' sub that wasn't captured would pretty much also have to be considered 'sunk' too? I mean, it's not like the Japanese sent a tug out to tow it home for repairs...

Zinj
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
I can't believe they're using Prouty to try to defend Hubbard's "war record". Prouty belongs with the tin foil crowd. He was a supporter of the Holocaust deniers and white supremacists and was full of bizarre conspiracy theories that would make OSA proud.
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
L. Fletcher Prouty

Controversial Claims

As a famous critic of the CIA he pointed out its influence in global matters, outside the realm of U.S. congressional and government oversight. His works detail the formation and development of the CIA, the origins of the Cold War, the U-2 incident, the Vietnam War, and the John F. Kennedy assassination. Prouty's book JFK claims that these events are proof of a secret "global elite" at work.

He subscribed to the theory that oil is not derived from fossils but from carbon deposits deep within the Earth (abiogenic petroleum origin theory)[1], and that U.S. Intelligence agencies may have been involved in the deaths of People's Temple members at Jonestown.[2] He claimed that Korean airlines Flight 007 was downed by "an explosive device" planted aboard by the CIA, rather than being shot down by a Soviet interceptor.[3]

He believed that Kennedy was killed by forces allied with the Federal Reserve Bank because Kennedy was moving against them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher_Prouty#Controversial_Claims
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
Secret Team

I can't believe they're using Prouty to try to defend Hubbard's "war record". Prouty belongs with the tin foil crowd. He was a supporter of the Holocaust deniers and white supremacists and was full of bizarre conspiracy theories that would make OSA proud.

Also author of "Secret Team"

The Secret Team: The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World (ISBN 0-13-798173-2) is a book by L. Fletcher Prouty, a former colonel in the US Air Force, first published in 1973. From 1955 to 1963 Prouty was the "Focal Point Officer" for contacts between the CIA and the Pentagon on matters relating to military support for "special operations" but he was not assigned to the CIA and was not bound by any oath of secrecy. (From the first page of the 1974 Printing) It was one of the first tell-all books about the inner workings of the CIA and was an important influence on the Oliver Stone movie JFK. :omg:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Team
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
The linked article is from 2006 and has been debunked on both OCMB and WWP. Sorry, I'm too lazy to provide the link.

As for calling people who disagree with you "haters", it's a common tactic - one the White House uses nearly every day.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
So, I'm thinkin' that the reason the person wanted to remain annonymous is that he/she is a high ranking member of the church noy wanting to be recognized as spreading more sheep dip and flim-flammery.
 

Stephanie

Patron with Honors
an article written about his war records without evidence is just as valid as me writing up my own 'war record'.

i don' t believe that story for one NY second.
 

Veda

Sponsor
An examination of Hubbard's stories about himself demonstrates a long series of conflicting accounts. "It's a trap not being able to prevaricate," said Hubbard in 1952, during the loose-lipped days of the 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lectures.

Nothing much has changed for Scientology believers. The standard responses about Hubbard's tales are belief or acceptance or, as a last resort, "I don't care."

Hubbard wanted badly to be seen as a V.I.P, a war hero, an Intelligence Officer on the order of James Bond. His tales were an attempt to accomplish that. He convinced the Scientologists, and those Scientologists who sense that something is wrong, who begin to perceive the conflicting accounts, and the ease with which Hubbard wafted from reality to fantasy, have - an an excuse - "I don't care."

When confronted with Hubbard's Naval records, one response is to assert that only the person or his immediate family members can access this information. Another response is that the person must be deceased before information can be accessed, so how could this information have appeared before 1986?

Yet the USA Freedom of Information act makes accessible certain information, and files, from a person's military records. This is not mentioned.

If it is noted that the information that has been published is available, through proper means to the public, then the sheep dip argument is made - that the documents must be forgeries.

Yet what of Hubbard's conflicting tales? What of the overwhelming evidence that he just "made up stuff"?

That's "ad hom."

"Well, Hubbard wrote that he was on the Japanese occupied island of Java and practically single-handedly saved the Australians from Japaneses invasion."

"Yea, well prove that he wasn't and that he didn't," etc.

"OK, records show that he was in the USA at the time," etc.

"Oh well, that's sheep dip," etc.

Connect the dots on Hubbard and his deceitful ways? Why would one want to? He gave us the "Tech," the "Bridge To Total Freedom," etc.

That's what really matters, so "I don't care" becomes the response.

Yet the results from Scientology seem to be disappointing. Scientologists are not that different from other people, or perhaps, in some instances, are worse off.

They have their e-meters, they can go through the routine of setting up their meters, holding the cans, going into session, watching the meter respond, watching the needle float, etc.

But, in the long run, are they "Clear," are they "OT"? No.

Not unless they think they are, then, "What's true for you," etc.

When someone is a contented cultist, there's not much point in debating with that person. The certainty that accompanies cultism is its own result, its own reward.

The moving sidewalk that rotates around the monument to Hubbard doesn't need to go any place. It moves, it vibrates. So what if it rotates? Those following the taped path, their gaze focused on a few inches of tape at their feet, won't notice - or care.
 
An examination of Hubbard's stories about himself demonstrates a long series of conflicting accounts. "It's a trap not being able to prevaricate," said Hubbard in 1952, during the loose-lipped days of the 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lectures.

As you are well aware this is Hubbard from 1952, spewing his poorly researched, and painfully outdated, science fiction as fact right at the Genesis of his Cult, or why would anyone expect Hubbard do something so uncharacteristic as tell the truth, when it came to his military service?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGKH4Ami59g
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hubbard did occasionally say or write some things that were true, even in his long winded Crowley-inspired and chemical-enhanced 'PDC' lectures. A successful con man must occasionally tell the truth - Bright shiny dramatic wonderful truths are best.

Hubbard goes on about the history of the solar system, and he's obviously making it up as he goes along; however, I don't have a problem with the possibility of extra-terrestrial life.

Hubbard sold "Clear" and "OT" to people, used it to justify abusive and exploitative policies and practices, made a lot of money, and built monuments to himself, but, IMO, that doesn't mean than nothing ever happens in a Scientology counseling session beyond the delusory:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=245719&postcount=14

Scientology's greatest protection are those pieces of truth that it uses like twinkling Christmas lights:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=65167&postcount=11

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=166052&postcount=20

Hopefully, the above links will prevent any needless misunderstandings with Scientologists who might be looking in.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Veda
Hubbard did occasionally say or write some things that were true, even in his long winded Crowley-inspired and chemical-enhanced 'PDC' lectures. A successful con man must occasionally tell the truth - Bright shiny dramatic wonderful truths are best
Also while I was unpacking yesterday I thought I had an Alan Watts tape plopped into the stereo. It was an LRH PDC from 1952. He was talking about how we use a body to make space. I thought, you know, we kinda do do that. We use them to create viewpoints of dimension for ourselves. If you were to vaporize a body...Whoooops...there goes a viewpoint of dimension. I just got a chuckle out of it. Couldn't help it. 'Specially since now the 2nd Dynamic is "Creativity". But hell, it was already procreativity so thats no big stretch.
 
Great tape. Wow, I'd forgotten just how far-out LRH got. And that was what fascinated me (acid-head) and kept me glued!

Last time I listened to that tape was 1972 hunkered down in the basement of 68 Tottenham Court Road (London org) with Dave Allington after opening the safe with all these "confidential" tapes.

Great adventure at the time.

Not so much anymore.

JHW
 

Anonycat

Crusader
His record is poor. Have you seen his own "affirmations"? His poor record haunted him, and contributed to his feelings of ongoing failure.

This is where he's trying to feel OK about failing:

(b) My service record was not too glorious. I must be convinced that I
suffer no reaction from any minor disciplinary action, that all such
were minor. My service was honorable, my initiative and ability high.
I have nothing to fear from friends about my service. I can forget
such things as Admiral Braystead. Such people are unworthy of my
notice.

And ...

I carried this fear of the disease to sea with me. I was reprimanded
in San Diego in mid-43 for firing on the Mexican coast and was removed
from command of my ship. This on top of having sunk two Jap subs
without credit, the way my crew lied for me at the Court of Inquiry,
the insults of the High Command, all combined to put me in the
hospital with ulcers.

I returned to sea as navigator of a large ship and was subsequently
selected for the Military Government School at Princeton whither I
went in 1944-45 for three months. During my Princeton sojourn I was
very tired and harrassed (sp?) and spent week-ends with a writer
friend in Philadelphia. He almost forced me to sleep with his wife.
Meanwhile I had a affair with a woman named Ferne. Somehow, perhaps
because I had constantly wet feet and no sleep at Princeton, I
contracted a staphloceus infection. I mistook it for gonnhorea and
until I arrived at Monterey, believed my old illness had returned. I
consulted a doctor there who reassured me. This affair again depressed
my libido. The staphloceus infection has not entirely vanished,
appearing as rheumatism which only small doses of stilbestrol will
remove. The hormone further reduces my libido and I am nearly
impotent.

Source: http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2000-03-11.html
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
When I started learning the truth about hubbard I was devastated. It was the beginning of loosing my ‘religion’. I didn’t believe most of what I read until I saw the official documents.

I don’t care what anyone comes out and says anymore. Between the official documents, the affirmations and first hand testimonies (both before and after he came up with dianetics and scientology) I know hubbard was a liar. He lied about anything he needed to. And that included his military record. Just look at the pattern.

I bet that same guy has some “proof” somewhere that hubbard never failed physics and has some prestigious degree after all. I wonder if he could also prove that hubbard was in fact Buda, went blind and got his eyesight back and wasn’t a bigamist.

I really don’t want to hear about one point when there are HUNDREDS more left unproven.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
Speaking of made-up military history, the expert Prouty was not in the Air Force during WWII. There was no U.S. Air Force during WWII -- it was the Army Air Corps. If that was someone's typo, you'd think they would take care to be more accurate in this kind of discussion.
 
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