What's new

Today Tonight : Exposes Scientology Cult's Xenu Doctrines and Beliefs

Wrong: try again....flunk

Let me take a middle road, just to play devil's advocate, and perhaps to stir some debate on this matter. Clearly the whole OT-3 drama is of ongoing fascination to many. + PUSH the o$A view.....???

So I start by saying that any piece of information - any "fact", can make sense only within some cntext. Taken out of context or in the absence of any context at all, the "fact" will be meaningless and will quite rightly be rejected by people. Facts have to "fit in" to the broader picture, they have to be congruent to their surroundings. Only then can they make any sort of "sense" at all. AND???

This is the main difficulty people have with the Xenu story. The only context people have for such an event (real or imagined) is the world of Science Fiction. That is the only place where it fits in, in our society. And so, along with Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, it gets pigeon-holed as childish fantasy. Something OK for teenagers to get excited about but strictly not for adults. er, NO, we got telescopes, we got evidence, we got space travel & the evidence for aliens is: in your head elcons head....:duh:

OK, so what context is required for the Xenu story? Is there a context where it does make sense? no, except as a parable.....get with it.

I would suggest - being the devil's advocate, as I said O$A! :yes: that the difficulty [people have is their own amnesia. Even on this board the idea past lives are ridiculed and belief in them is seen as evidence of brainwashing in Scientology. But just suppose for a moment that this doctrine really is true, and that we have lived for many thousands or millions of years before this life. And suppose too that some people may have a memory that stretches far beyond the lmitations of the present meat body they inhabit; suppose they can recall with relative ease just about anything going back a long long time. (All quite unprovable objectively of course, but real enough to them.)

And suppose they had encountered incidents of implanting and cluster formation in early auditing let us say, and have huge valence shifts as a result - enough to change their lives and their whole outlook on who they are, and so on.

Perhaps such people have the required context to make sense of, or for, the Xenu drama. Perhaps they have a "reality" on things that others don't and so they may find the Xenu business quite easy to assimilate. Perhaps they look on programs like this one and think something on the lines of "forgive them, for they know not what they mock".

Or something like that.

Perhaps.

Who knows?

who knows?
I don't mock past life stuff just to mock past life stuff, I MOCK what $cilooons do with it, if curing a past life helps you to deal with your present life: do it, just don't expect to charge thousands for Auditing & call it TECH/ switch/bait Religion because thats a Con.
if you want to believe in what Xenu/Xemu/Marcabians do, then fine, just don't con people into the cult & into clearing the planet & hoovering up ca$h while you do it, its cruel, its a con, its totalitarian & ooooh & on & on & on

$ciloons: prepare to be exposed, again & again.:thumbsup:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
One can take this either way - one can join the hordes of people who laugh and scoff and join the hoipoloi asw many here have clearly done, or one can join the CofS side of things and cringe at the sight people making fun of your "most sacred scriptures" and cower in silence consoling yourself with the the thought that "they don't understand".

Let me take a middle road, just to play devil's advocate, and perhaps to stir some debate on this matter. Clearly the whole OT-3 drama is of ongoing fascination to many.

So I start by saying that any piece of information - any "fact", can make sense only within some cntext. Taken out of context or in the absence of any context at all, the "fact" will be meaningless and will quite rightly be rejected by people. Facts have to "fit in" to the broader picture, they have to be congruent to their surroundings. Only then can they make any sort of "sense" at all.

This is the main difficulty people have with the Xenu story. The only context people have for such an event (real or imagined) is the world of Science Fiction. That is the only place where it fits in, in our society. And so, along with Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, it gets pigeon-holed as childish fantasy. Something OK for teenagers to get excited about but strictly not for adults.

OK, so what context is required for the Xenu story? Is there a context where it does make sense?

I would suggest - being the devil's advocate, as I said - that the difficulty [people have is their own amnesia. Even on this board the idea past lives are ridiculed and belief in them is seen as evidence of brainwashing in Scientology. But just suppose for a moment that this doctrine really is true, and that we have lived for many thousands or millions of years before this life. And suppose too that some people may have a memory that stretches far beyond the lmitations of the present meat body they inhabit; suppose they can recall with relative ease just about anything going back a long long time. (All quite unprovable objectively of course, but real enough to them.)

And suppose they had encountered incidents of implanting and cluster formation in early auditing let us say, and have huge valence shifts as a result - enough to change their lives and their whole outlook on who they are, and so on.

Perhaps such people have the required context to make sense of, or for, the Xenu drama. Perhaps they have a "reality" on things that others don't and so they may find the Xenu business quite easy to assimilate. Perhaps they look on programs like this one and think something on the lines of "forgive them, for they know not what they mock".

Or something like that.

Perhaps.

Who knows?

The Xenu story contains no facts. Facts can be seen or pointed to. They exist or happened in a way that can be verified.

Sheeps in New Zealand are facts.

The sun is a fact.

What you actually had for breakfast is a fact.

The Xenu story is a story that contains absolutely nothing factual. And I am not saying that it, as a legend, is not true, even.

I am saying that it contains no facts.

A very very important part of being able to think for one's self is to be able to properly label facts. If you mis-label something as a fact, and can not recognize facts, and can not distinguish facts from non-facts, you are sunk.

Ron said all kinds of things were facts that were not facts. He said that the reactive mind "is just a fact", for instance.

No it's not!

It's part of a model that is used to explain the "human mind" and human mental phenomena, like the electron is used to describe some parts of atomic and sub-atomic theory.

Electrons are not facts.

Neither is the reactive mind.

And neither is anything in the Xenu story.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I hesitate to mention it, since it feeds into some of the worst delusional thinking of the most delusional 'OTIII Apologists', but, the *original* island formed by the hawaian 'hot spot' may indeed have been around 75 million years ago, but, has now moved to the neighborhood of the Aleutians.

Zinj

(addendum, actually, as early as 82 million years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Seamount)
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Xenu story contains no facts. Facts can be seen or pointed to. They exist or happened in a way that can be verified.

Sheeps in New Zealand are facts.

The sun is a fact.

What you actually had for breakfast is a fact.

The Xenu story is a story that contains absolutely nothing factual. And I am not saying that it, as a legend, is not true, even.

I am saying that it contains no facts.

A very very important part of being able to think for one's self is to be able to properly label facts. If you mis-label something as a fact, and can not recognize facts, and can not distinguish facts from non-facts, you are sunk.

Ron said all kinds of things were facts that were not facts. He said that the reactive mind "is just a fact", for instance.

No it's not!

It's part of a model that is used to explain the "human mind" and human mental phenomena, like the electron is used to describe some parts of atomic and sub-atomic theory.

Electrons are not facts.

Neither is the reactive mind.

And neither is anything in the Xenu story.



I fully support what you written here. What makes a "fact" into a fact? Context. It fits coherently into a known context. Then it is a fact.

And when it comes to the contents of the reactive mind - and you are right in saying it is a mere model for representing the mind - the entire contents of it is subjective and can never be anything other than subjective.

And so it follows from here that the workability of Scientology in its entirety is subjective.

The money grabbing - that is something I spoke about to the reporter who interviewed me for the Christchurch newspaper article that was posted on the board by Once Bitten last week. I told him that my only real complaint against the CofS is that the altruistic effort to produce something of lasting benefit to mankind was turned by Hubbard into a goddam money-grabbing slave-making cult.

He chose not to publish that comment.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Even when I was in I found the man repugnant--the sound of his voice and his physical aspect disgusted me.

Does he look reptilian to you?

When I was first in I was forced to watch that LRH interview they use as a PR piece. After I watched it I said to my prospective Purif twin that I found him creepy and that his teeth looked rotten.

Next thing you know I'm in ethics being yelled at and accused of being a plant. I thought the whole thing was nuts and wanted to walk out the door then and there. But I'd paid for my purif and wanted the detox. So I stuck around.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Interesting! - I too found Hubturd creepy and I sensed something sinister about him.. From the first time I saw a picture of him, back of a book.. And I felt digusted by all pics in the org, on every wall like Hitler.. And it didn't go away, even during the time I was quite loyal to Scn... It's strange, coz' how come he could persuade and convince me, and others, when we felt uneasy about him?

How common is it that people felt this way?

:unsure:
 

Flag-2005

Patron with Honors
James Packer was OT 7.

I though he was only in for a year?

Wonder what he paid for that quicky Bridge?

So glad he got out fast..
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Emma got in trouble for telling the truth

When I was first in I was forced to watch that LRH interview they use as a PR piece. After I watched it I said to my prospective Purif twin that I found him creepy and that his teeth looked rotten.

Next thing you know I'm in ethics being yelled at and accused of being a plant. I thought the whole thing was nuts and wanted to walk out the door then and there. But I'd paid for my purif and wanted the detox. So I stuck around.

You tell the truth and expect agreement. What you got was disagreement back, so of course the result of that is "I must be wrong" Then you spent the rest of your time in scientology invalidating what you know is true because if we say it, we'll get in trouble and be made wrong, again.

That just proves how scientology indoctrination works.

Sorry you went through that. So glad you are out. Payback is a bitch, lol!
 
Last edited:

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
When I was first in I was forced to watch that LRH interview they use as a PR piece. After I watched it I said to my prospective Purif twin that I found him creepy and that his teeth looked rotten.

Next thing you know I'm in ethics being yelled at and accused of being a plant. I thought the whole thing was nuts and wanted to walk out the door then and there. But I'd paid for my purif and wanted the detox. So I stuck around.

That was the interview I watched when I first got in. I was really turned off by it, it seemed very contrived.

He was really a bad actor.
 
Top