Tom Cruise has lured my friend into Scientology

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

I just don't get it.

In one post, she says she cares about her friend, in another she says she doesn't care if they figured out who her friend is, or that she doesn't care if her friend gets upset and never talks to her again. Normally we would hear the latter from someone against Scientology, willing to forfeit a friendship in order to save the friend from the horrors of the cult but this Jenn thinks Scientology is OK.

I think, too, that she needs to answer the questions posted about what she personally wants from us? Everything else concerning her friend has been addressed. There is no need for more references and articles about the damages and wrongs Scientology has done to it's members. Or info on what a cult it it. They have had little effect in helping her help her friend, and educating either one of them. No one needs to know anymore about the friend, who we know too much about in the first place ( much to the friend's disadvantage ) .

People that come here and post concern for their friends or loved ones getting involved in Scientology are usually discrete to begin with. They are quick to heed warnings. Tbey don't keep repeating details that could identify their friend, once warned. But that is not the case here. It's almost as if Jenn wanted to sabotage this friendship. like I said, I don't get it. And I'm not going to waste another second on this thread.

I agree with Mary. It's not the story that bugs me, it's the affect of the person writing it.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

I am sure in the hundreds of replies that have preceded this it has already been said but I just thought of it now so I'll say it now.
Trolling like this is like crying wolf. At some point we may dismiss a legitimate request for help from a noob because cult troublemakers have engaged in tomfoolery with us. That is the real danger here. Stirring up mistrust can make us all less sensitive to honest requests for advice.

PTS,

Or it can make it clear to OSA and prankers that the people here, no matter how damaged, won't just gobble up any bullshit story, which is a waste of our time and could also distract us from other posts and requests that might be really helpful to someone in need.

For someone who is genuinely seeking help, they will see from this thread that the immediate tone from the beginning (and I have seen this throughout the forum) was one of acceptance and kindness and immediate support. I was willing to take a ride on Jenn's crazy train until I noticed that people were sending her articles on Lisa McPherson, Astra Woodcraft, and other atrocities in the church's history, and we weren't getting posts back that said, "Oh my God, I can't believe what I'm reading..." or "That's insane, my friend is really in trouble" but posts that would say "Thank you for the information!" and then totally not comment of what was sent. "Breathless" posts where Jenn writes things like, "Wow, I'm back, I just had to take a break!" like she just breezed in from picking up more beer at a Frat party. When Jenn is shown that there may be danger related to what she is posting, she later talks about "two sides" when it comes to criticizing the church, and how she feels "indifferent", how some people were helped by the church. This doesn't feel like someone in crisis.

I feel putting someone like Jenn on "blast" and ripping her funky, confused story apart can also be therapeutic for an ex-Scientologist (or anyone with PTSD from mind control) by saying we're not going to swallow bullshit anymore at face value. In that way, a lurker or someone crying out for help can read Jenn's thread and think, "Wow, they really mean business here. I can trust the level of integrity of these people. They won't let anyone take advantage of them."

I've been critical of Jenn, and also wondered if I am being hard on her. But there is something to the tone of "JennWonderful" (Goddamnit, doesn't the name say everything, people - I mean really, your friend is trouble with the church and you post as "Jenn Wonderful?) that I feel, if her story is true, she/he can use the tough love here, like slapping a hysteria person into reality. If Jenn is really who she says she is, and I highly doubt it, and she and her friend really do have access to T.C. and D.M....she is in danger and I think, dealing with two psychopaths. And I don't mind hurting her feelings, if it breaks through this hero worship tone in Jenn's posts and helps her deal with reality.

I mean why is she giving us details about her friend's grandmother and the power she has over men? That pisses me off and feels like she is wasting my time, or getting off sexually on this story. That may seem excessive to some, but there is something about Jenn's rendering of her taie, not just the details, that has a pornographic feel. Like the story is supposed to turn us on, the access to T.C. and D.M, and what's happening to her friend, and I don't feel that vibe from people who are genuinely asking for help. After awhile of reading too much of the story from posts like this, you start to feel like you are a part of it, like you are participating in something sordid. (Usually people who really need help, move past story quickly and into solution. They don't "serialize" the story - like stay tuned for the next bit of gossip, once you get "hooked".)

So fine, get off if you want, we all tell stories from time to time, just don't trick me into participating, shoot in my face, and then expect me to thank you for the free moisturizer.

Yes, let's listen and be supportive as possible. But let's not listen to incredulous stories and patronize the storyteller as if we don't have any critical faculties. Otherwise, ESMB is just one big campfire for science-fiction stories and bullshit.

Jenn, has anyone introduced you to a guy named Xenu?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Looking for consistency in human beings is an exercise in futility.

People who are being quite truthful often recount and recollect things in an inaccurate manner. I'm with Thrak and Mickster on this one.

There's too much of this pile on stuff here.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

Looking for consistency in human beings is an exercise in futility.

People who are being quite truthful often recount and recollect things in an inaccurate manner. I'm with Thrak and Mickster on this one.

There's too much of this pile on stuff here.

Perhaps, Claire, but why would Jenn talk about the benefits that people have gotten from the church....if she feels this way, why is she worried about her friend?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: If a contributor were OSA

1) Promote scientology, keep it upstat. OP was in sci, and considers the friend perfect fit for scientology. Jenn makes it all sound so exciting. JennWonderful.

2) Promote image of Tom Cruise or other cult PR causalities, but in this case, TC. We saw the PR story about the restaurant manager woman and "dirty dancing" - that.

3) Dev-T

4) Entheta is from "damaged" people who seem angry.

(Well, actually, there are a lot of damaged people out of Scn who seem and are angry, if it comes to that)

That being said, I'll share an anecdote with you. I have a friend who defends Scn and Tom Cruise. And guess what. She's never ever ever been in it, never read a book. What she knows is from discussions we've had, news stories, etc. That's it.

Even when I was an Indie and certainly now, we'd talk about TC or CofS and the conversation often goes that she's chiding me for being mean. We once had a bit of an argument with one of us- me- yelling "Goddamn it, it's a CULT!" and her defending it. Keeping in mind my reputation for trying to lead people into the Miscavigian salt mines (bullshit but sometimes claimed here)- that's actually pretty damn ironic. And what's even more ironic is that someone who'd never been in, has no family in ('cept me- we're like sisters)- has that stance.

My point? (you didn't think I had one, did you!) is that points of view and people can be found in many varieties. And trying to dissect this person, as some here are doing (and when I see who's doing it, I find that a bit ironic, too), that's not gonna work.

To me, it's based on this idea that non CofS members can only have certain types of viewpoints. The thing is, the human condition is varied. Generally, when people try to pigeonhole strangers on the internet, they're often not taking into account information that they do not have and would not have access to. Of course we can't know everything abt a stranger. But the smart people realize this and withhold judgment at least to an extent.

 

[Free Being Me]

Looking for consistency in human beings is an exercise in futility.

People who are being quite truthful often recount and recollect things in an inaccurate manner. I'm with Thrak and Mickster on this one.

There's too much of this pile on stuff here.

And when inconsistencies are revealed on a persons part telling the tale, it's called lying.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

And when inconsistencies are revealed on a persons part telling the tale, it's called lying.

actually, no it's not - it's simply inconsistencies.

Being mistaken about the details of a story is being mistaken about the details of a story.

Lying is the act of telling an untruth with the intention to deceive.

Thanks for illuminating my point for me.

 

[Claire Swazey]

actually, no it's not - it's simply inconsistencies.

Being mistaken about the details of a story is being mistaken about the details of a story.

Lying is the act of telling an untruth with the intention to deceive.

Thanks for illuminating my point for me.

Mick's right.

I work in the legal field and people often give differing accounts of the same event, when they are deposed, writing a sworn statement or appearing in court in other venues.

I have some friends who sometimes tell me the same anecdotes. Over the years, I've seen the stories change. And since I was actually there at the events being depicted, I knew they weren't lying, that the events truly happened. But the stories changed over the years. People recall things differently.

You know, if it came to that, then claiming someone is working against a bunch of people who she doesn't even know and has never even back channelled anybody about could be seen as lying too. But I'm charitable and figure it's just personal opinion (albeit untrue and groundless).

 

[Free Being Me]

actually, no it's not - it's simply inconsistencies.

Being mistaken about the details of a story is being mistaken about the details of a story.

Lying is the act of telling an untruth with the intention to deceive.

Thanks for illuminating my point for me.

Whether said person made it up, bought into it or is spreading it for their own purposes, it's still a lie. The inconsistencies are the measure of what's being said, much like El Con and his $cientology or in this case, this thread. Whether anyone is interested in buying into this thread, I'll leave for each person to decide based on those inconsistencies.

 

[Free Being Me]

Mick's right.

I work in the legal field and people often give differing accounts of the same event, when they are deposed, writing a sworn statement or appearing in court in other venues.

I have some friends who sometimes tell me the same anecdotes. Over the years, I've seen the stories change. And since I was actually there at the events being depicted, I knew they weren't lying, that the events truly happened. But the stories changed over the years. People recall things differently.

You know, if it came to that, then claiming someone is working against a bunch of people who she doesn't even know and has never even back channelled anybody about could be seen as lying too. But I'm charitable and figure it's just personal opinion (albeit untrue and groundless).

That's all well and good but this isn't a court of law, it's a message board. I can only go by what a poster writes and weigh the content accordingly. I'm under no obligation to believe the op or be manipulated into doing so.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Whether said person made it up, bought into it or is spreading it for their own purposes, it's still a lie. The inconsistencies are the measure of what's being said, much like El Con and his $cientology or in this case, this thread. Whether anyone is interested in buying into this thread, I'll leave for each person to decide based on those inconsistencies.

er no. While every lie is an inconsistency, every inconsistency is not a lie.

And using the most pejorative term to describe something in the hope of making it appear to be something it is not, is disingenuous at best.

 

[Anonycat]

Got me beat why anyone would format posts in HTML anyway. Using Word or Notepad I can understand but HTML???

I didn't want to be the first to guess why the code showed up, but here's my guess: the text was copied from something, maybe an e-mail.

 

[What's It All About]

Let's assume that JennWonderful is an OSA staff, or some variation thereof. It's an utterly time-wasting activity for a staff member or other propagandist to come to this site and try to seed sweetness and light for scientology. So if time is being diverted from more productive uses of precious time, then the staff member is the one who is wasting the most.

Let's say that staff member reads not only this thread but many others here with the same agenda. That person is getting a boat-load of experienced, detailed, knowledgable accounts of what is wrong with Hubbard, Miscavige and scientology - information that is slowly seeping into their thoughts and life experience.

The helpfulness, concern and genuine desire to protect someone from suffering needlessly when they can enjoy the freedom of their mind and emotions, of their movements, of their work, families and friends instead may become clear to this staffer, or whomever has taken on this "cleaning the Aegean stables" task of futilely trying to persuade people who may have decades more experience dealing with the iniquities of scientology than does the staffer.

Pro-Hubbard/Miscavige/greedy-fearful-psychopaths-masquerading-as-spiritual-leaders seeds are falling on barren soil here. But for the scientology devotee who seeks to convert, or re-convert people to the cult, coming to this site is definitely planting in them irresistible seeds of reality, dissent and freedom with their promise of future happiness and a more full, balanced way of life, joyful.

To say nothing of the less-connected-to-scientology, who may stumble across these threads and get a glimpse of the compassion at work presented here.

It's like the staffer is fishing for gullible, little, easily manipulated converts and landed whales of human kindness, compassion and concern instead.

I hope they're reeling it in and reeling from the reality check they're getting as well.

We are known, understood and loved unconditionally, whether we are consciously aware of it or not. And no human being gives that to us. And no human being takes it away.

If you don't believe that, check out people who've had near-death experiences. They've lived to tell the tale, and no amount of skepticism or criticism or condemnation is enough to alter what they know (no, I have no connection to this or any other site that presents this material) www.nderf.org

Why do I mention that here? Because ultimately that's what we need to remember. Religions, cults, philosophies, charismatic leaders, etc. are fingers pointing to that moon. No need to gnaw on the finger when you can gaze at the moon itself.

Go in peace, all ye who gather here. And have a nice day, while you're at it. Heh.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Since when did this thread or this board become a springboard for propagation of the ElRon is Kewl modality? Or even the hey, let's do Scn in some way modality?

I don't see Jenn saying it. I don't see anybody else saying it.

People have commented on inconsistencies they thought they perceived in Jenn's posts regarding what she says about her friend. Not the same thing.

 

[Free Being Me]

er no. While every lie is an inconsistency, every inconsistency is not a lie.

And using the most pejorative term to describe something in the hope of making it appear to be something it is not, is disingenuous at best.

I will agree that every inconsistency isn't necessarily a lie or forwarded with intent to mislead, however in this case, I don't rush in to believe a strangers inconsistent story just because internet gullibility is suddenly fashionable and I'll use whatever terms I see fit to describe this nonsensical thread.

 

[Anonycat]

I will agree that every inconsistency isn't necessarily a lie or forwarded with intent to mislead, however in this case, I don't rush in to believe a strangers inconsistent story just because internet gullibility is suddenly fashionable and I'll use whatever terms I see fit to describe this nonsensical thread.

Or we could say the OP is bi-polar with schizophrenic tendencies, and communicates in a unique way. I work with someone in this situation, and until you understand, you cannot get anywhere. However, I had taken Jenn at face value, and it was useless. High five to Mary who had the smarts to call it when it was obvious.

Sure, there is every type of person and in every possible variation, but now it's getting so rhetorical, I might as well join Mary and throw my arms up.

 

[Free Being Me]

Or we could say the OP is bi-polar with schizophrenic tendencies, and communicates in a unique way. I work with someone in this situation, and until you understand, you cannot get anywhere. However, I had taken Jenn at face value, and it was useless. High five to Mary who had the smarts to call it when it was obvious.

Sure, there is every type of person and in every possible variation, but now it's getting so rhetorical, I might as well join Mary and throw my arms up.

Good point, thank you.

 

[ethercat]

I didn't want to be the first to guess why the code showed up, but here's my guess: the text was copied from something, maybe an e-mail.

---

is used by SMF (Simple Machine Forum) software as BB code for a horizontal rule. She had posted about having trouble with her return key. I believe this is in the part right after the forum move. It could be that she's familiar with SMF and was trying to add line breaks, or it could be that it was indeed copied and pasted from something else. I don't know if phpBB uses that as BB code also. As far as I know, there is no closing BB code in SMF, and I'm pretty familiar with it.

 

[Anonycat]

---

is used by SMF (Simple Machine Forum) software as BB code for a horizontal rule. She had posted about having trouble with her return key. I believe this is in the part right after the forum move. It could be that she's familiar with SMF and was trying to add line breaks, or it could be that it was indeed copied and pasted from something else. I don't know if phpBB uses that as BB code also. As far as I know, there is no closing BB code in SMF, and I'm pretty familiar with it.

OP seemed confused by it, so I considered copy/paste.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

actually, no it's not - it's simply inconsistencies.

Being mistaken about the details of a story is being mistaken about the details of a story.

Lying is the act of telling an untruth with the intention to deceive.

Thanks for illuminating my point for me.

How can you be mistaken about a story that you are a part of? And a story that happened so recently -this wasn't something that happened 10 years ago.