Tom Martiniano defends Admin Tech and the SO; blames current management.

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
From the new, fundamentalist, Wahhabi wing of IS. Oh, and is the part highlighted in red a dig at Marty?

Is Scientology management bad? Is the Sea Org bad?

http://iscientologyblog.org/2013/02/06/is-scientology-management-bad-is-the-sea-org-bad/

February 6, 2013
Is Scientology management bad? Is the Sea Org bad?

By Tom Martiniano

The Sea Org was established on 12 August 1967 by L Ron Hubbard, initially on board three ships, the Diana, the Athena, and the Apollo. In 1971, it assumed responsibility for the ecclesiastical development of the church, and in particular for the upper levels, known as the “OT levels.” LRH’s hallmark “Ron’s Journal 1967” was recorded aboard the Apollo after LRH completed his research into OT III. Shortly after LRH disbanded WW Management and turned the duties of establishing and running Scientology to the Sea Organization. From then until 1975 Scientology experienced unprecedented expansion a boom never seen before or since. Tens of thousands of people per week were going free and experiencing case gain. Scientology was delivering like never before. The Sea Org moved to land bases in 1975, set up management in Clearwater Florida. Scientology continued to expand until it was commandeered and used for something else.

I was staff in Detroit Org from 1971 until 1978. I worked as Qual Sec, HGC auditor, Supervisor and every now and then as an executive. When I took over as Qual Sec after the Day/Foundation split in 1973, I recruited 14 staff for Qual and we ran the org all the way to St Hill size in 1974. Our org ran like a well-oiled machine, running all-hands body routing, all-hands intro lectures, regging and supervising on the basic courses in order to stuff the academy with students. I then supervised the academies 60+ students and put everyone through the Primary Rundown, after which they became “Super Literate.” As a result we had 22 Intern auditors in the HGC and we delivered 850 in-the-chair hours per week with a million student points in the academy alone per week. We had so much fun producing that no one really wanted to take a day off be because it was more fun to produce in the org than it was to do something else. Detroit was good Boot-Camp Training because we really learned how to “Play the Piano” and put all the functions together to boom Scientology in our area and we did.

In 1984 I became a manager at the Flag Bureaux. Dave Henderson was the CO and I was the D/CO. We worked out a strategy in that he ran Scientology International and I would run the Sea Org Int and FLB/FSO. It worked and within a few short months LRH declared Scientology in a state of affluence and ordered us to isolate our successful actions and write a program for them. We did. I had written the strategies for the Sea Orgs and FSO and then implemented them with programs or evaluations as needed. Management was simple and worked like a dream in the hands of sane people like myself and Dave Henderson.

After I left the Sea Org I joined up with a few entrepreneurs who had a retail company but didn’t know how to expand it. I took the Model of admin Know-How (A WISE establishment program), implemented it and we went from a $440,000 per year org in 1998 to $25,000,000 per-year org by 2001. To me it was easy as pie – I just applied policy.

Anyone who knows me knows I’m a rebel; no one tells me what to do. Not even L Ron Hubbard. But I’m smart enough to know who winners are and who losers are. I know that I applied LRH Management tech inside Scientology Organizations and then outside Scientology Orgs and it always worked better than anything else I read or tried. Why re-invent the wheel? The wheel is already there and abundantly available. So when I find someone telling me to “look elsewhere” or “try other things”, I know this person is a loser because this person never applied the tech like we did to boom Scientology, like we did.

Yes, in the wrong hands, Scientology Management and the Sea Org can become suppressive/oppressive groups in themselves. But like anything that is run by suppressives it itself becomes suppressive. Just like in the hands of psychotics, assault weapons can kill a lot of people, but in the hands of sane people, they do not kill.

We can boom Scientology again. It is very easy and I am willing to help anyone who wants to see Scientology grow. Just contact me and we will take the “rocket-ride”.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
In the wrong hands, Scientology Management and the Sea Org can become suppressive/oppressive groups in themselves?

What a DUMBASS!

Scientology Management and the Sea Org can't help but exist oppressively by the very nature of Hubbard's policies, rules, orders and viewpoints about these subjects and things. :yes:
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
"Ron" always admonished us "to always goto source" (to Ron)

Well, I went to Ron's sources and for his Admin tech, well, at least parts of it, his Finance "tech" (I was an FBO in 1972 before they became The Finance Police..) you can find it in this book:



Art of Money Getting,. by P.T. Barnum
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just like in the hands of psychotics, assault weapons can kill a lot of people, but in the hands of sane people, they do not kill.

WTF. Sure, sane people with ASSAULT WEAPONS use them to play with kittens and help feed the hungry. Arghhh. I mean the whole essay is laughable but the above line just slayed me as the perfect example of how dense Tom is. Assault weapons were designed and made with exactly one purpose in mind - to kill and maim. It's the only reason they exist.

Tom also seems to be one of the only people alive who's "business" thrived by using fad concepts and half-baked ideas from the 1950's, created by a con man who didn't even have the most basic, fundamental understanding of statistics - but put statistics as the core of his biz "ideas." ( I've would love to see LRH ideas about statistics and their use get explained to a college statistics class, probably give them the best laugh they'd have in ages.)

I would also like to see any proof to Tom's claim about Hubbard's tech making this "company" boom and make millions, upon millions of dollars. Much like Hubbad, Scientologists are big on throwing around fantastic success claims like this but very rarely is any actual proof or data forthcoming. They seem to survive on a diet of purely andetotal tall tales.
 
"Ron" always admonished us "to always goto source" (to Ron)

Well, I went to Ron's sources and for his Admin tech, well, at least parts of it, his Finance "tech" (I was an FBO in 1972 before they became The Finance Police..) you can find it in this book:



Art of Money Getting,. by P.T. Barnum

Awwww... that's JUMBO on the cover!!! :happydance: I love Jumbo!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumbo

(I sorry for teachable moment minor derail... I hush now! :blush:)
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
I was staff in Detroit Org from 1971 until 1978. I worked as Qual Sec, HGC auditor, Supervisor and every now and then as an executive. When I took over as Qual Sec after the Day/Foundation split in 1973, I recruited 14 staff for Qual and we ran the org all the way to St Hill size in 1974. Our org ran like a well-oiled machine, running all-hands body routing, all-hands intro lectures, regging and supervising on the basic courses in order to stuff the academy with students. I then supervised the academies 60+ students and put everyone through the Primary Rundown, after which they became “Super Literate.” As a result we had 22 Intern auditors in the HGC and we delivered 850 in-the-chair hours per week with a million student points in the academy alone per week. We had so much fun producing that no one really wanted to take a day off be because it was more fun to produce in the org than it was to do something else. Detroit was good Boot-Camp Training because we really learned how to “Play the Piano” and put all the functions together to boom Scientology in our area and we did.

I was there and can tell you Tom has embellished this. There were no 14 staff in Qual and at best maybe 2-3. The FDN org did get up to maybe 70 staff members but Day org was very small. 60 plus students??? Never ever saw that. At times up to 20-25 in the course room. Million student points - well Tom must have counted the points from students from the 60s to help with that stat. I guess his memory is a little different from mine.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
This is the part I like best:

We can boom Scientology again. It is very easy and I am willing to help anyone who wants to see Scientology grow. Just contact me and we will take the “rocket-ride”.

It's like he's waiting to boom Scientology for someone to contact him.

Why?

Why not just go ahead and boom it? Why sit around waiting for someone's approval?
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
it's weird. My memory of Tom Martiniano was that he was a very sensible, down to earth guy.

Same with Lana Mitchell.

It kind of surprises me they would be such foaming at the mouth devotees now that they're out.
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
Tom has always been a BSer. Big talk and little delivery. He left off the part that at the end of 78 he was removed from post. Never returned to Detroit after that. Probably because Scientology unboomed.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Tom has always been a BSer. Big talk and little delivery. He left off the part that at the end of 78 he was removed from post. Never returned to Detroit after that. Probably because Scientology unboomed.

It unboomed before or after he was removed from post? Despite the policy, I often saw that post removal had no relation to down-statistics.

Amusingly, around 1993/4 I was on a post at ITO (Staff Advanced Courses Sup) and I could see that the solo hours (not my stat, per se) was about to really crash after being affluence-trending for weeks. Simply because several high-hours producing people looked to be very close to finishing on OT3. There wasn't a full program for getting staff up the Bridge. This was a very limited project for execs, new management trainees (Tommy Gustaffson, Marina Pezzotti etc).

I suddenly got ripped off post for "out-security" — basically not having in fully-RTC-approved security procedures (safes, electronic gizmos etc) on the packs etc., even though the ad hoc set-up had the full support of the HGB Security Chief. Three of the solo auditors red-tagged because I was a "safe terminal" for them, and quite frankly there weren't any others as knowledgeable about the stuff at hand. And the hours stat really CRASHED and stayed down after that. If you didn't know any better, it looked like having me on post was the reason the stat was so high, and taking me off post crashed it. Anyway, I found that amusing, some small consolation for the bullshit post removal.

Paul
 
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Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
It unboomed before or after he was removed from post? Despite the policy, I often saw that post removal had no relation to down-statistics.

Amusingly, around 1993/4 I was on a post at ITO (Staff Advanced Courses Sup) and I could see that the solo hours (not my stat, per se) was about to really crash after being affluence-trending for weeks. Simply because several high-hours producing people looked to be very close to finishing on OT3. I suddenly got ripped off post for "out-security" — basically not having in fully-RTC-approved security procedures (safes, electronic gizmos etc) on the packs etc., even though the set-up had the full support of the HGB Secutiry Chief. Three of the solo auditors red-tagged because I was a "safe terminal" for them, and quite frankly there weren't any others as knowledgeable about the stuff at hand. And the HOURS stat really CRASHED and stayed down after that. If you didn't know any better, it looked like having me on post was the reason the stat was so high, and taking me off post crashed it. Anyway, I found that amusing, some small consolation for the bullshit post removal.

Paul

It was because stats were down. I really hate the word boom. Anybody can boom a stat but the hard part is keeping it there. Let's suppose that Tom indeed did everything he posted why didn't he maintain that? Well on ESMB people here know the reason. Scientology can be boomed. It's just nobody can maintain it.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Lulu,

I didn't know Martiniano back in the day, but I regard him differently than you do. According to his version of himself on Marty's blog, he was once a multi-millionaire, but lost his money due to someone else's out ethics. (Why does wealth always the result of the wealthy person's good works, but when he falls on hard times it's always someone else's fault?)

I recall that when he came out on Marty's blog, he was renting an apartment in Vegas. I'm not sure where he lives now.

And if I recall correctly a post that Oracle made over at Marty's blog over three years ago (it stuck in my memory), Tom Martiniano and his girlfriend Linda (forget her last name) hit Oracle up for money to pay for their gasoline and hotel rooms so they could afford to drive from Vegas down to Florida to the first Indie Fourth of July picnic. Oracle said the scam was Martiniano told her that "Marty wants us to inspect personally all the orgs between Vegas and Florida and make a report to him about how busy they really are." My recollection is that Marty's response on the blog was of the WTF?! variety.

If I have time to go looking for those posts I'll post 'em here.

Anyway, not impressed by Martiniano.

TG1
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
It was because stats were down. I really hate the word boom. Anybody can boom a stat but the hard part is keeping it there. Let's suppose that Tom indeed did everything he posted why didn't he maintain that? Well on ESMB people here know the reason. Scientology can be boomed. It's just nobody can maintain it.

Stats again. Virtually any ex Scieno with half a brain can see the folly of "managing by statistics" as applied by the COS. The adage "to a man that only has a hammer, the world is a nail" comes to mind. Hubbard's oversimplification habit is no more apparent than here. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. I suspect every ex-staff or SO member has a stupid stat story to share. It happened every week.:duh:
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Lulu,

I didn't know Martiniano back in the day, but I regard him differently than you do. According to his version of himself on Marty's blog, he was once a multi-millionaire, but lost his money due to someone else's out ethics. (Why does wealth always the result of the wealthy person's good works, but when he falls on hard times it's always someone else's fault?)

I recall that when he came out on Marty's blog, he was renting an apartment in Vegas. I'm not sure where he lives now.

And if I recall correctly a post that Oracle made over at Marty's blog over three years ago (it stuck in my memory), Tom Martiniano and his girlfriend Linda (forget her last name) hit Oracle up for money to pay for their gasoline and hotel rooms so they could afford to drive from Vegas down to Florida to the first Indie Fourth of July picnic. Oracle said the scam was Martiniano told her that "Marty wants us to inspect personally all the orgs between Vegas and Florida and make a report to him about how busy they really are." My recollection is that Marty's response on the blog was of the WTF?! variety.

If I have time to go looking for those posts I'll post 'em here.

Anyway, not impressed by Martiniano.

TG1

I found The Oracle's post on July 19, 2010, at http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/second-dynamic/#comment-38665 .

The next 10 or so posts after that one on Marty's blog are an unusually transparent conversation between her and Marty about the "cross country org eval" Clark / the Martinianos were running, which really turned out to be "how we get others to pay for our trip down to Florida for the Indies' July 4 picnic."

Sheesh! I guess that's how "professional Scientologists" operate.

In any case, they're certainly "pros."

TG1
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Lulu,

I didn't know Martiniano back in the day, but I regard him differently than you do. According to his version of himself on Marty's blog, he was once a multi-millionaire, but lost his money due to someone else's out ethics. (Why does wealth always the result of the wealthy person's good works, but when he falls on hard times it's always someone else's fault?)

I recall that when he came out on Marty's blog, he was renting an apartment in Vegas. I'm not sure where he lives now.

And if I recall correctly a post that Oracle made over at Marty's blog over three years ago (it stuck in my memory), Tom Martiniano and his girlfriend Linda (forget her last name) hit Oracle up for money to pay for their gasoline and hotel rooms so they could afford to drive from Vegas down to Florida to the first Indie Fourth of July picnic. Oracle said the scam was Martiniano told her that "Marty wants us to inspect personally all the orgs between Vegas and Florida and make a report to him about how busy they really are." My recollection is that Marty's response on the blog was of the WTF?! variety.

If I have time to go looking for those posts I'll post 'em here.

Anyway, not impressed by Martiniano.

TG1

wow.

who knew?

Tom Martiniano was the SO Programs Chief for years. He worked out of FB (Flag Bureaux). He was around the PAC orgs a lot; was in AOLA all the time.

I didn't really know him well, so he could really be a lunatic, unbeknownst to me. but...he always seemed pretty sane.

Generally people like him on those kind of middle management posts who manage to stay on their post for a long time aren't one of the Crazies. They kind of have to be pragmatic and sensible and stable just to survive.

They really are in the "middle" (hence the term "middle management" :p).

They are between the realities of the orgs and the public and the reg lines on one side and the insane demands of Int management on the other.

Not an easy place to be.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I found The Oracle's post on July 19, 2010, at http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/second-dynamic/#comment-38665 .

The next 10 or so posts after that one on Marty's blog are an unusually transparent conversation between her and Marty about the "cross country org eval" Clark / the Martinianos were running, which really turned out to be "how we get others to pay for our trip down to Florida for the Indies' July 4 picnic."

Sheesh! I guess that's how "professional Scientologists" operate.

In any case, they're certainly "pros."

TG1

That is, indeed, an unusually transparent conversation. I note that Marty concludes with the statement:

martyrathbun09 | July 22, 2010 at 5:06 pm | Reply

TO – good. So I think we have established I sent no one out on my behalf, but at the same time the folks you referred to were all acting above board and ethically.

. . . which seems a little incongruous with the details as mentioned by TO, although she does come to the conclusion that the three people mentioned were acting on their "own initiative" to extract $7,000. Bizarre.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I agree, Infinite - things went a little sideways at that point.

But the prior, greater part of the conversation makes it clear that Martiniano, Linda and Eileen were hitting up Oracle (and possibly other Marty followers) for donations for their own "programs." You'd think if their programs were "Independent programs" that they would have at least mentioned their activities to Marty, eh?

Despite what Marty said at the end, it's clear that he's calling Martiniano out publicly about the scam and putting him on notice -- simply by posting all of Oracle's comments.

Perhaps the current Martiniano v. Marty tiff is about more than KSW.

TG1
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Here's a much more recent post by Oracle over at Marty's blog at http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/the-road-i-must-travel/#comment-255527 which, I must admit, I don't completely comprehend. She penned this comment in response to conversations on Marty's blog about the KSW disconnections happening among the Indie crowd. In this latest comment, she mentions again the Martiniano donations scam of 2010.

She also describes donations she made more recently to someone else who has since disconnected from Marty who was "touring through the U.S. via Marty's comm lines" (Jim Logan?) delivering "tech cycles he offered to do in exchange" which according to her did not end well.

I have no idea if any of this is true. All I've got is links. And I have no more of them. :)

TG1
 

Gib

Crusader
From the new, fundamentalist, Wahhabi wing of IS. Oh, and is the part highlighted in red a dig at Marty?

Is Scientology management bad? Is the Sea Org bad?

http://iscientologyblog.org/2013/02/06/is-scientology-management-bad-is-the-sea-org-bad/

doesn't make sense.

hubbard says the tech is self correcting.

so why is that old st hill boomed. and why is that tom's org in detroit boomed. and why is it that the mission network prior to 1981 was booming.

Well. where are all these people who were part of booming? why aren't they still a part of the organization?

tom says because of some sp that took over. but hubbard said the tech is self correcting. so how can this be?

no make sense to me.

if the tech is so great, then why aren't all the old timers and everybody who ever bought a book involved?

probably the greatest thing hubbard did was to get PR in his promo pieces that the organization sends out weekly and daily. What about word of mouth, hub says it is the best. seems to be missing if the mother church need send out pr/promo pieces.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
it's weird. My memory of Tom Martiniano was that he was a very sensible, down to earth guy.

Same with Lana Mitchell.

It kind of surprises me they would be such foaming at the mouth devotees now that they're out.

Such are not unknown to say the least.

Those attracted to Scn were usually good guys, many very bright
and lets imagine they got some wins in scn.:coolwink:

Often they had little knowledge of whatever there is to know
and life previous to Scn.

However Hubbard is a master at manipulation and strove to among other things to get people to follow his wishes and ideas.

One has to rise above that portion of the bank. :)

Even Hubbard said so. And alledgedly was the first example. :)

"If you will just stay with me on this line, up to the first
milestone in Scientology, and bring yourself up to a high level of ability

and apply yourself to that, you will be free - free from me and from
Scientology too!" Milestone 1 - LRH
 
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