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Tone Scale - fatal flaw in it?

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by scooter, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    I had a training day today, learning lots of great stuff about human behaviour that has been peer-reviewed, tested etc etc and one thing the presenter said struck me.

    She talked about experiencing two or more emotions at the same time.

    And I remembered times that I'd done that - like been super-angry but also sad and maybe a bit scared all at the same time.

    Now where does THAT fit into Hubbard's paradigm in the Tone Scale?

    He never mentioned it - in fact he insisted that a person would be in ONE tone level only at a time, maybe with a social veneer of another level obscuring the "real" tone.

    Yet here I was recalling time in my life (and others' too) that clearly contradicted The Tehc.

    Your thoughts? Experiences?
  2. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    With which 'identity(s)', 'beingness(es)', or 'viewpoint(s)' was/were the emotion(s) associated.

    That which is felt as multiple conflicting emotions may easily represent individual 'viewpoints' or 'perspectives'. What may well be involved is the question of composite personality, a well-known & established phenomenon of several approaches to spirituality & psychology both.

    Mark A. Baker
  3. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Yes I agree. I often have mixed emotions about things. Sometimes I have emotions which have no mind connections, by which I mean they are not from related past or even present relationships with people or things....they are caused by physical things...right now it's an allergy which plays havoc.
  4. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    This reminds me of that old joke 'she ran the gamut of emotions from A to B' (lol) but the reality is (for me anyway) that emotions from A-Z can be felt just listening to some beautiful music and of course they can overlap.

    Tubs was a twat, I know that now (ooooh, I'm sad, angry and exhilarated at the same time just by saying that).

  5. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Well, Hubbard like to make us believe that 'Covert Hostilty', on his miracoulous Tone Scale is an emotional tone 'fixed' at 1.1 at a comparatively low position on the scale.

    However: If you come to realize that you are caught up in a fraudulent group that is an enemy of humankind, you will pretend loyalty to plan your escape.. This could indeed happen if you are a scientologist. When you discover that the cult is a scam you will do well to 'clam up' and pretend as nothing. If you 'talk', your scientology 'freinds' might grab you and forcibly subject you to gang bang sec-checks, then lock you up indefinitly (means until you come to your senses..). In short, they'll do their best to cave you in and convince you that you are a Supressive Person.

    So there's good reason to pretend to be 'freindly' towards the nazi system and the fascist hoodlums.. Until you can make your getaway safely!

    And so we can observe that 'Covert Hostility' is really way up there on the 'Tone Scale'.. Above the kind of 'Enthusiasm' that is dramatized by the deluded denizens crawling up Hubbard's Bridge..

  6. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    I think fear and anger go together pretty hand-in-glove, don't you? But not just fear and anger - fear, anger and frustration.

    Did she talk about frustration and it underlying most anger issues?

    That was one of the things I learned about emotions that really struck me after leaving Scientology. What a useful concept!

    First there is the frustration trying to get something done - bad policy, poor boss, poor communication with your kids, whatever, and you're afraid or socially restrained from speaking up about it. So, you ignore it, push it down, push it aside, then it builds up and builds up and then you get angry all in one big go. Kaboom!

    I had a friend with one of those kind of tempers until the day he broke a guys nose when he and another driver were angry with each other and both pulled over. They got in an argument and all of a sudden KABOOM goes the fist. Wow! He was shocked at himself, couldn't apologise enough. The courts made him go to one of those anger classes. He learned all about the relationship between frustration and anger and also learned not to try to control everything, that it didn't really matter if everything went the right way all the time and to just let some things go. Once he learned to let go, no more anger.

    Elron would have said he was chronically angry. But that wasn't true at all.

    Mainly, he was a shy, kind of private guy. He was afraid, really, not wanting to do or say the wrong things socially but wanting to do the right thing.
  7. koki

    koki Silver Meritorious Patron

    I love when I hate to listen that Paul Weller s song - " you do something to me ".
    Makes me feel happy to be sad when listening that song and trying to not hear the words...
    Love to hate it!
  8. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Scwimmie yes covert hostility is a good example. Perverts are covertly hostile, well if you would be slammed in a prison if you opened up who wouldn't be?

    He also says that women should be allowed to get angry and men be allowed to cry. Not without shouts of human reaction and emotion! or case on post!

    Scooter, yes you can have many intentions at the same time and many emotions he really knew nothing about the mind.

    Sometimes emotions are chemical too, hormonal, and can change with a pill or injection.
  9. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

    One thing that should immediately strike anybody who isn't spellbound by Scientology at the time is the use of up to three decimal places.

    Why is 'terror' 0.96? Why is 'making amends' 0.375?

    Quite simply, this is an attempt to convey precision. It makes this particular brainfart seem 'sciencey' when in fact it's just the musings of a bogus guru who tried to fuse his misunderstandings about science with his misunderstandings about faith. We tell schoolchildren not to do this. It's referred to as "the illusion of precision". When they get numbers that run to multiple decimal places it doesn't always indicate accuracy, but simply that the method used for measurement is imprecise.

    Now, what could be more imprecise than a mathematical, quantified attempt to describe the highly subjective: feelings.

    Therefore: Hubbard was full of it. As ever.

    Also, why have a scale that runs from -40 to +40? Why not use a metric scale that runs to 100? Could it be because of the symbolic significance of the number forty in magic and numeralogy? LRH really did lay it on thick.
  10. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    How about your social tone level being the real tone level mixed with other emotions because we are human. Hubburd alluded to the lowest harmonic being the "actual tone level" which really creates a mess.

    Doing Scientology actually will push a person down to the lowest harmonic tone level. It is a LIE of EPIC porportions!:duh:
  11. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, I've experienced this, observed this in others, and even commented on it some time long ago in a thread on this board in which contributors were deconstructing (with of course some defending) Hubbard's "tech".

    And when two or more emotions are experienced at the same time, it's not a "conflict" between those emotions, or a competition between your "entities" or your "viewpoints" or anything weird at all -- it's just a FACT OF LIFE!

    Also, while "inappropriate," or overblown, or out-of-control emotional responses and reactions can indeed sometimes be problematic in social interactions, emotions are not a "scale" of "good to bad" or "positive to negative" -- all emotions are valid and part of the experience of being.

    Hubbard was wrong. Tech is dreck.

    Post directly above this by Freeminds says it well.
  12. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Gold Meritorious Patron

    It IMPLIES (speaks to one's subconscious) scientific precision.

    Its like the word Scientology, or the fancy looking e-meter gizmo, it IMPLIES Science.. fact...

    Just another example of the techniques used to deceive...

    Examples of the artifices used to make The FRAUD of $cientology
  13. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Well, Scoots . . . you've simply revealed another item/tech area of Hubbard's incomplete and erroneous "work."

    No surprise there . . . the man was superficial beyond belief, and as Arnie says, put most his stuff together for use to deceive, manipulate and negatively control folks.

  14. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes!!! That "social tone" thing was one of the most destructive and invalidating concepts. While people sometimes act "nicer" than they feel, Hubbard's "training" on the subject makes you suspicious and untrusting of others. You can't take people at face value, you have to determine the "thetan tone" which is certainly lower than than the social veneer shows, and often below body death????!!! How very demeaning. And then, you are supposed to communicate with them at their "actual tone", which brings everything down, like you said, to the lowest harmonic.
  15. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Gold Meritorious Patron

    I hear ya scooter.

    I mean why does schizophrenia have to always be a bad thing?

    Maybe some day John Travolta will point his finger at Tom Cruise and say "The Tone Scale is a myth. You don't know the history of the Tone Scale, I do".

  16. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Gold Meritorious Patron

    For once, just for once, can we leave BTs out of the conversation?

  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Good post!

    Could Hubbard be covertly hostile against all humanity, while pretending to be a friend?

  18. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Hmmmm, in my opinion we only have one point of view (that inner core from which we look out and observe the world from), but from there are capable of looking at different views of the same object/subject, including, but not exclusive to, observing a thing from someone else's outlook. It is this human trait that allows us to determine how we feel about things, evaluate things, inform ourselves, not something Hubbard or the cult in general would ever encourage as it tends to lead to truth-seeking or exercising common sense.....:omg:
    The old windbags tone scale and it's cut and dry 'either/or' approach is just another example of how fucked he and his 'tech' was/is imho.
    Did that make any sense? :unsure: Only on mah first cup o' :coffee:
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I think you are correct, but going further, I think Hubbard pretended to be a great many thngs, while actually being otherwise.
  20. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Covert punishing bodies for instance? Covert needing bodies almost certainly.