Tony O asks why we believe in Xenu

[Infinite]

..

 

[Claire Swazey]

"Handling" means, in this usage, dishonest manipulation.

In this sense, no, I am not trying to handle him.

I know goddamn well what "handling" means. I've had that charge levelled at me, too.

Seems to me that if certain individuals:

are nice

they will be accused of being ARCful in a disingenuous way and trying to handle.

get mad and lose their tempers

they will be accused of trying to handle others and give them a bad time

I even saw one oh so brilliant soul just unload a can of whupass for the unpardonable crime of telling a critic that, in a post, she made a "good catch".

It's your bias. That's what it is.

 

[Terril park]

So, you are removing demons and you think that this is something that many/most religious people do on a regular basis?

A quick search dosn't get much solid data.However:-

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92541&page=1#.UBbWgaCYTiQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism

I've also mentioned that my wife helps with Excorcism and healing
in a catholic background every week. My father, an Episcopalian minister also practiced excorcism thoigh I have no idea how often.

 

[Terril park]

He's just using a PR line on you, in an attempt to "handle" you.

Again you are lying.

 

[Terril park]

Hell, I ain't even religious and I removed three demons today before lunch! Pesky damn demons...

Oh crap....here we go again. Honey!! Go get the crucifix!

(I really don't use a crucifix. I just hold up a copy of Marty's book. The picture of John Allender scares the hell out of demons).

CO$ ghas a long tradition of trying to intimidate people with cameras and flashlights stretching back to at least The Mission Holder fiasco. Anyone read any issues on this?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Again you are lying.

Nah. The sad thing is he actually believes it.

It's a school of thought that goes "If this other person has different ideological or other views than I do, then that person is out to harm others."

But then again, in our nanny state/politically correct society, it's nice to meet people who don't celebrate diversity. Cuz that goody goody shit gets soooo old.

 

[Terril park]

I know of almost no one who is actively religious who focuses on demon possession. They may believe in them but even the Christians I know don't spend serious time working on freeing themselves from demons in any literal sense.

I'm not trying to handle anyone; I figured the best way to find out what the hell Terrill was talking about was to ask him. I've asked Veda, HH, Panda, etc questions when I don't understand what they have said and I'm not trying to handle them either. Sometimes a question is just a question out here in the crazy old world-of-wogs.

If you are going to assert something in public, you should be willing and able to defend it. It's not bullying or being mean to ask them what they meant or to define a term. I haven't attacked Terrill at all; I am asking him to be more explicit about what he is claiming. He should be able to do that and he's not said that I'm being a big old meany.

I got no problems with your questions.

I should add that in the Philipino community such matters are widely accepted and practiced, and local shamanism exists side by side with catholicism and probably Islam in the appropriate areas. Its probably similar in other similar communities, and less so in western universities for example.
Though having said that at my regular "Skeptics" meetings most attendees are into vatious areas of "Magick" ect and tend to be university educated.

 

[uniquemand]

Meters reading on a word or phenomena doesn't mean that phenomena or word is historically accurate or "real". What it means is that the person has psychological stress associated with the word or the concept the word is tied to in their mind.

Hubbard and his followers seem to believe that because something is "charged" (reacts on a meter), it must be real, or stem from real events.

I suspect that if someone read the script of Star Wars out loud while attached to an emeter, they would read strongly and frequently. Not because any of it was real, but because themes and characters and events in the story would be associated with real people, events and themes in their lives. The same is true with Xenu or any other implant cosmology stuff.

Some people cannot tell the difference between factual events and fantasies created for entertainment or some other purpose. I try to avoid these people in common circumstances.

 

[Veda]

It wouldn't be surprising if Scientology's hiring of J. Gordon Melton, and other "religious experts," to, "independently," start talking about metaphors, and talking about the Bible, etc., etc., on behalf of Scientology, occurred around the same time as the airing of this old television program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48tcGIqIzc

"But there was one discovery... that I haven't said very much about, and am really not likely to since it's a sad thing.

"It's what happens to a thetan who is not salvaged or processed and goes on down the chute. Man, when I saw that and saw it to be true, I actually felt sorry for these guys that try to hit at us. Poor devils.

"Some religions talk about hell. It's an understatement of what really happens...

"But listen, you're living in a universe which is crawling with this type of stuff. And planet Earth was the dumping ground to end all dumping grounds."

L. Ron Hubbard

 

[Terril park]

Nah. The sad thing is he actually believes it.

It's a school of thought that goes "If this other person has different ideological or other views than I do, then that person is out to harm others."

But then again, in our nanny state/politically correct society, it's nice to meet people who don't celebrate diversity. Cuz that goody goody shit gets soooo old.

To me it does not come over that he believes it. It comes over to me as manipulation, because he keeps telling people I manipulate and lie. If he
was just giving his opinion he would have got fed up repeating it some years ago.

Don't forget he worked for OSA/GO. Looks like you can take the guy out of GO/OSA but you can't take GO/OSA out of then guy.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Well, we lost Zinj but we still have a few pundits around here. Some people here really look up to them.

Tsk.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... in our nanny state/politically correct society, ...

As if.

Do yourself a favor, switch off Faux News & Limbaugh. Your brain will thank you.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... Hubbard and his followers seem to believe that because something is "charged" (reacts on a meter), it must be real, or stem from real events. ...

FWIW, hubbard's on record on the class viii tapes as saying that the only thing a read on a meter means is that it read. It could be the pc has his mind on his breakfast, the auditor's bra size, or whatever. It's the responsibility of the auditor to determine what the pc has on his mind, not the meter.

Much that hubbard has stated is inconsistent and incorrect. Arguments from hubbard can be made both ways as to whether the significance of a meter read is necessarily based on real events. But whatever argument is made based on hubbard, the fact is as you suggest meter reads are an indication of pc stress (often subtle) and may or may not be tied to real events.

Not all stressors need be real as a simple reflection on the fears characteristic of life circumstances will show.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

-snip-

Don't forget he worked for OSA/GO. Looks like you can take the guy out of GO/OSA but you can't take GO/OSA out of then guy.

Thirty nine years ago (39!), for a brief time, at the request of someone I knew who was in the Guardians Office. I was a volunteer for the G.O. My association with the G.O. was brief, and I let it be known that I no longer wished to continue to assist them in any way.

At the time, I was a novice Scientologist, a recent graduate of the Hubbard Standard Dianetics course, and a Field Staff Member. I later discovered that it was routine for Field Staff Members to be asked by the G.O to assist them.

As a public person, I ended my membership - with a written resignation - in the so called Church of Scientology in the early 1980s.

My next interaction with the G.O. - renamed OSA - was several years after I had formally resigned my membership. Then, it was with their goons, Private Investigators, lawyers, and through threats, harassment, physical violence, being subpoenaed, and at depositions. But that's another story.

Terril knows this, yet he repeatedly misrepresents it.

 

[Lone Star]

Thirty nine years ago (39!), for a brief time, at the request of someone I knew who was in the Guardians Office. I was a volunteer for the G.O. My association with the G.O. was brief, and I let it be known that I no longer wished to continue to assist them in any way.

At the time, I was a novice Scientologist, a recent graduate of the Hubbard Standard Dianetics course, and a Field Staff Member. I later discovered that it was routine for Field Staff Members to be asked by the G.O to assist them.

As a public person, I ended my membership - with a written resignation - in the so called Church of Scientology in the early 1980s.

My next interaction with the G.O. - renamed OSA - was several years after I had formally resigned my membership. Then, it was with their goons, Private Investigators, lawyers, and through threats, harassment, physical violence, being subpoenaed, and at depositions. But that's another story.

Terril knows this, yet he repeatedly misrepresents it.

It's a part of the handling.

 

[Lone Star]

As if.

Do yourself a favor, switch off Faux News & Limbaugh. Your brain will thank you.


Mark A. Baker

Whatchutalkinbout Mark?

What part of 'We report YOU decide' do you not understand?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

FWIW, hubbard's on record on the class viii tapes as saying that the only thing a read on a meter means is that it read. It could be the pc has his mind on his breakfast, the auditor's bra size, or whatever. It's the responsibility of the auditor to determine what the pc has on his mind, not the meter.

Keep studying Scientology and eventually you will get it.

Hubbard says one thing in the morning and the opposite in the afternoon.

You like to pick the parts you agree with and ignore the contradictory tech that negates what you are saying.

This is one of the tricks of how Scientology always can be right. Whether you pick door number one or door number two, there is a bright shiny e-meter behind both.

In the dreadfully wrong example you give above (Class VIII tapes about the meter) either you haven't studied much auditor tech or you didn't understand it. As a person who spent years auditing, training hundreds auditors and C/Sing countless PCs, I will clue you in on something. . .

The idyllic idea you have about e-meter reads is not in fact how cases are C/Sed, per the CS series. For example, a PC who runs perfectly, yet cannot go wholetrack is programmed to do the "Past Life Remedy". That kills your Class VIII theory about not evaluating what a meter reaction means. Because if a person does not read on what they are SUPPOSED TO read on (e.g. they don't have reality or "read" on past lives) then they are "programmed" and "handled" until they do read on past lives.

I could give you hundreds of examples of how your concept of the tech is not how it is actually written and applied.

If you want to pretend that there is a "standard" or "workable" tech, you can do it. But you won't be treated seriously by hardcore professionals who are fully trained and experienced in the subject.

In the military, there is a great term ("REM") used by the combat grunts who are actually on the front line, taking live gunfire, casualties and being mowed down by enemy bullets. Real bullets. They refer to the generals who sit in ivory towers a vast distance from the bloody trenches and send down their theoretical messages about how the battle is to be fought. REM is an acronym for REAR ECHELON MOTHERFUCKERS.

Mark, you can sit in an ivory tower and pretend to know all the perfect theory about the tech, but honestly you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

 

[SomeGuy]

Don't forget he worked for OSA/GO. Looks like you can take the guy out of GO/OSA but you can't take GO/OSA out of then guy.

You ever work for OSA/GO?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Whatchutalkinbout Mark?

What part of 'We report YOU decide' do you not understand?

They purport that they constitute a 'news network' but not only deliberately distort the accounts on which they report they have argued in court that they are not required to report the news factually; i.e. they lie deliberately.

Fox delivers reporting for people who wish to believe what they have to say. The fact that they are owned by Murdoch and are used to promote his media & legal agendas makes that fact all the more disturbing.


Mark A. Baker

 

[SomeGuy]

On the topic of this thread.

I see a lot of equivocating, ie Catholics do exorcisms so scientologist auditing BTs is the same thing. Which brings me to my point how many of you actually got into scientology because it was a faith based system?

Wasn't Dyanetics the modern science of mental health or some such claim?

So my question comes back to the concept of scientology as a religion. Is that a major draw of scientology, replacing / substituting a belief sytem?

If not does equivocating scientology practices to religious practices even make sense?