Tony O asks why we believe in Xenu

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I'd also like to know why Pirate and Bum finds it necessary to suggest I go off to the exorcist with Terril. It seems to be some sort of common argument that anyone who discusses certain things in certain ways must believe in the underlying concepts, even when it's being discussed from a third party standpoint.

I've never once indicated I believe in BTs or feel the need of OTIII or any other exorcism method.

I personally believe that concepts can and sometimes should be discussed from a third party looking in type vantage point. I do this a lot and I'd have thought this had not gone unnoticed by most...
 

Mythbluster

Patron
Welcome to ESMB, Mythbluster.

Your comments about Scientologists and OT III are spot-on.

Scientologists will say that OT III is either true or untrue, depending on who they are talking to, and whatever the silly PR craze of the moment happens to be.

We are so stupid we fall for it every time...

Do_not_read_OT_3_unprepared.jpg


https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Scientology#OTIII_-_Xenu


Thanks for the warm welcome Smilla and Veder :) Hope I can make some good contributions here. Love the ot3 reaction pic. That is a 100% realistic representation of what will happen if a pc reads ot3 (metaphorically speaking of course!:wink2:) 

Reminded me of a thought I had a while back. I have read of a few people saying that although they don't take everything Ron says as being true they think that he himself firmly believed it to be the truth. Bearing this in mind how would the following be explained:

Ron wrote down the story of Xenu as a movie script and intended a cinema release, if anyone had been mad enough to pick it up! So if Ron truly believed that reading a passage of the ot3 story could cause freewheeling, pneumonia and almost certain death, was he planning mass wog murder via cinema? (sounds like something Xenu himself would think up) Or the more likely explanation is that not only did he talk a load of nonsense he didn't even believe any of it!

Thanks for posting audio of Xenu story Veder, I heard it a while back but always worth another chuckle! Don't know if this link will work but this is probably the funniest bit of hub-babble I have found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdEmGYRfT4k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

He is clearly veeery high and reverts to complete gibberish while everyone laughs at him. If link doesn't work just search for: Hubbard completely losing his mind! Another good source of Hubbard hilarity is the YouTube channel madmentalking.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd also like to know why Pirate and Bum finds it necessary to suggest I go off to the exorcist with Terril.

The topic of the moment is spin/dissembling about the OT Levels.

Off you and Terril trot on exorcism.

This was not a suggestion for you to see an exorcist. It was saying that Terril & you went off onto the subject of exorcism.

I haven't made up my mind of the subject of BTs yet. There is definitely some phenomena that reacts on the meter. Whether it is external or purely self-generated I cannot say.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
This was not a suggestion for you to see an exorcist. It was saying that Terril & you went off onto the subject of exorcism.

I haven't made up my mind of the subject of BTs yet. There is definitely some phenomena that reacts on the meter. Whether it is external or purely self-generated I cannot say.

I'm inclined to say both.
 

Mythbluster

Patron
Welcome to ESMB, Mythbluster.

Your comments about Scientologists and OT III are spot-on.

Scientologists will say that OT III is either true or untrue, depending on who they are talking to, and whatever the silly PR craze of the moment happens to be.

We are so stupid we fall for it every time...

Do_not_read_OT_3_unprepared.jpg


https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Scientology#OTIII_-_Xenu


Thanks for the warm welcome Smilla and Veder :) Hope I can make some good contributions here. Love the ot3 reaction pic. That is a 100% realistic representation of what will happen if a pc reads ot3 (metaphorically speaking of course!:wink2:) 

Reminded me of a thought I had a while back. I have read a few people saying that although they don't take everything Ron says as being true they think that he himself firmly believed it all to be the truth. Bearing this in mind how would the following be explained:

Ron wrote down the story of Xenu as a movie script and intended a cinema release, if anyone had been mad enough to pick it up! 

If Ron truly believed that reading a passage of the ot3 story could cause freewheeling, pneumonia and almost certain death, was he planning mass wog murder via cinema? (sounds like something Xenu himself would think up) Or the more likely explanation is that not only did he talk a load of nonsense he didn't even believe any of it!

Thanks for posting audio of Xenu story Veder, I heard it a while back but always worth another chuckle!

 I tried to post a YouTube link but it didn't work, think my profile is still restricted but just search for: "Hubbard completely losing his mind!" Ive listened to many of his recordings but this is probably the funniest bit of hub-babble I have came across! :grouch:
He is clearly veeery high and reverts to complete gibberish while everyone laughs at him.  Another good source of Hubbard hilarity is the YouTube channel madmentalking.
 

Mythbluster

Patron
Thanks for the warm welcome Smilla and Veder :) Hope I can make some good contributions here. Love the ot3 reaction pic! :biggrin: That is a 100% realistic representation of what will happen if a pc reads ot3 (metaphorically speaking of course!:wink2:) 

Reminded me of a thought I had a while back. I have read a few people saying that although they don't take everything Ron says as being true they think that he himself firmly believed it all to be the truth. Bearing this in mind how would the following be explained:

Ron wrote down the story of Xenu as a movie script and intended a cinema release, if anyone had been mad enough to pick it up! 

If Ron truly believed that reading a passage of the ot3 story could cause freewheeling, pneumonia and almost certain death, was he planning mass wog murder via cinema? (sounds like something Xenu himself would think up) Or the more likely explanation is that not only did he talk a load of nonsense he didn't even believe any of it!

Thanks for posting audio of Xenu story Veder, I heard it a while back but always worth another chuckle!

 I tried to post a YouTube link but it didn't work and I had to rewrite post, think my profile is still restricted or something but just search for: "Hubbard completely losing his mind!" Ive listened to many of his recordings but this is probably the funniest bit of hub-babble I have came across! :grouch:
He is clearly veeery high and reverts to complete gibberish while everyone laughs at him.  Another good source of Hubbard hilarity is the YouTube channel madmentalking.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Around the five minute mark on this video ol' Hubturd talks about BTs, Incidents 1 and 2. He certainly didn't give the impression of any of this being a metaphor. In fact he said if you run them in the wrong order it can kill a PC.

BTW I can't imaging a more humiliating death.....Death by Metaphor! :duh:
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I haven't made up my mind of the subject of BTs yet. There is definitely some phenomena that reacts on the meter. Whether it is external or purely self-generated I cannot say.

I'm curious as to what the meter does would make it capable of detecting a body thetan if such a thing exists?
 
... Ron wrote down the story of Xenu as a movie script and intended a cinema release, if anyone had been mad enough to pick it up! 

If Ron truly believed that reading a passage of the ot3 story could cause freewheeling, pneumonia and almost certain death, was he planning mass wog murder via cinema? ...

Hubbard's warning was with regard to attempts at self-auditing the story without proper set-ups. The evidence is that he believed that would lead to freewheeling (uncontrolled restimulation) and all the attendant unpleasantness described. The story accordingly could be seen as a story without causing such dire circumstances.

Not everyone who has experience with auditing on ot iii necessarily accepts hubbard's beliefs about it as true.

The why he proposed to do such a film is uncertain as he never actually said and he is now dead. However, it is possible, and even likely, that he believed he could create a partial restimulation of the event among the general population as a means of increasing general interest in auditing among the general population. The use of the volcano as the cover image for dianetics was intended to serve a similar purpose.

Deliberate restimulation or button pushing is a common marketing technique for goods & services in the economy as well. Practically every commercial & advertisement is based on attempting to manipulate people in order to increase sales of products.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
Bolding of two paragraphs added.

Hubbard's warning was with regard to attempts at self-auditing the story without proper set-ups. The evidence is that he believed that would lead to freewheeling (uncontrolled restimulation) and all the attendant unpleasantness described. The story accordingly could be seen as a story without causing such dire circumstances.

Not everyone who has experience with auditing on ot iii necessarily accepts hubbard's beliefs about it as true.

The why he proposed to do such a film is uncertain as he never actually said and he is now dead. However, it is possible, and even likely, that he believed he could create a partial restimulation of the event among the general population as a means of increasing general interest in auditing among the general population. The use of the volcano as the cover image for dianetics was intended to serve a similar purpose.

Deliberate restimulation or button pushing is a common marketing technique for goods & services in the economy as well. Practically every commercial & advertisement is based on attempting to manipulate people in order to increase sales of products.


Mark A. Baker

From about 10 days ago...

-snip-

Hubbard began writing REVOLT IN THE STARS after that in July of 1977.

-snip-

And the FBI raids had occurred on July 8th, 1977, lending credence to the idea that the 'Revolt in the Stars' project was a kind of personal coping response to his sense of panic, resulting from the raids.

After his failures in Rhodesia and Southern Africa in 1966, and the subsequent emotional breakdown, Hubbard had invented "Incident 2" and "Xenu" as the explanation, to himself and others, for those failures, and re-invented Himself as the Commodore which boosted his ego and his morale nicely.

Interesting that after a subsequent crisis, a decade later, he responded instinctively by writing Revolt in the Stars.

And, even during its brief existence as a project, I don't think it was meant to "blow the charge," as much as was to partially "key-out," while also partially "keying-in," the "Wogs" to a "whole track incident" that would lead them into their local Scientology Orgs, where they'd see the Sea Org symbol, and the R6 bank (Incident 2) images on book covers - including the Dianetics "exploding volcano" on the Dianetics book covers - and be prime "raw meat" ready to be "run through their orgs," drained of their money and their vitality in service to Mankind's only hope, and then, with appropriate Hubbard Guidance, finally arrive at OT 3, and actually do the procedures of OT 3.

It does show how suggestible Scientologists were. Hubbard comes up with an idea out of the blue, and immediately Scientologists become excited, go into agreement, and busy themselves "forwarding LRH Intention."

That is until LRH decides he wants to so some other grand project, and tells them that all those people bogged on Dianetics are really Clear, and Dianetics works after all, and not only works but is so fabulously effective that they're all Clear and don't even know it!

Wow! What a validation of LRH and the tech!

Oy vey. :melodramatic:

Note the borrowing, but with the insertion of the weasel wordy, "Not everyone who has experience with auditing on ot iii [sic, the 'ot iii' instead of OT3] necessarily accepts hubbard's [sic, 'h'] beliefs about it as true."

Many people have "had experience with auditing on OT 3" who are no longer Scientologists. Obviously, they no longer "accept Hubbard's beliefs," etc.

So sneaky.
 
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PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm curious as to what the meter does would make it capable of detecting a body thetan if such a thing exists?

Watching for meter reads (distinct movement of the needle from left to the right, called a "fall") while scanning one's attention over one's body and in the space around it.

Seeing such a read, placing one's attn back to that spot will produce more needle action - falls. One then would address that spot with the auditing procedure - the assumption being there is a BT or cluster there to be addressed.
 
I'm curious as to what the meter does would make it capable of detecting a body thetan if such a thing exists?

Best indication is that the meter reads off of the functioning of the human body's central nervous system. Sort of an averaged indication of changes of activity level in the cns. See the emeter related threads for discussions relating to this.

The mystery question is: assuming spirit exists in some sense at all, then how does spirit influence the body?

The question you asked is implicit in the above. It's a mystery. :)


Mark A. Baker
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
True, my description certainly is not an answer as to "why" it reads. My observation has been that it does read. And the location that causes the read is quite precise, i.e your attention's focus must be precise.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2, plus a smattering of introductory material by Hubbard:

"The first (earliest) bit of the bank is not an item but a light. It appears to the left front of the face, some distance away (Look ahead and to the left a bit and you'll spot it.)

"It is the source of unconsciousness and produces it when contacted. There is a light before each run...

"When you spot a light or object or combination of objects, you should get a read on the needle.

"You repeat verbal items aloud...

"The objects - hollow and solid...

"The objects appear about an arms length away...

"They move...

"Explosion...

"Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly..."

....

"Many persons experience unreality at the start of [implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads."

....

"They are implant incidents...

"Trillion, 20,095.

"Hot Cold.

"This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...

"Dance Mob.

"Trillions, 18,992.

"This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."

And a little more:

"230 trillions.

"This seeks to install...

"Implanter X... Target X,"
etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.


A typical reaction to running these materials is amazement at having contacted previously inaccessible incidents from ages ago, and delight at having expected (and hoped for) e-meter responses.

Those without the expected e-meter responses usually respond with dread and upset at their failure.

Their "cases" must be reviewed, and actions taken to "set" them "up" them for the "level."

It's an impressive P.T. Barnumesque ride.

OT3Interference.jpg


And when the ride is over, the person is OT: Old and Tired. :)
 

Mythbluster

Patron
True, my description certainly is not an answer as to "why" it reads. My observation has been that it does read. And the location that causes the read is quite precise, i.e your attention's focus must be precise.

Here is my hypothesis as to "why it reads" Because people want it to! If you are hoping for a desired effect (regardless of your belief or not in the Xenu drivel) while scanning the body visually a worried thought, increased stress due to anticipation/expectation or simply trying to wrap your mind around the "wonders" of incident 2 would likely prompt the needle to show a reading at some point sooner or later. (I do believe I read in this very thread that almost any thought or mood shift etc can cause an emeter "reading")
Now if I understood the relevance of the pinch test correctly, thinking about the pain gives the same reading, by that logic surely if you stare with fevered hope at the same spot on your arm that "prompted" a reading it is likely the result would be repeated. Abracadabra it must be a bt! "Wow now I believe it all (or at least metaphorically believe) thanks Ron!"
Whereas in the land of the rational all this proves is staring at your arm in a quasi hypnotised and intense mental state can produce a reading on a primitive lie detector that was promoted by a primitive liar.
 
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