Tony O asks why we believe in Xenu
- Thread starter Mimsey Borogrove
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Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Actually Mimsey copied a large portion of the article and a moderator cut it down to the size you see now. Mimsey has learned his lesson and will not copy and paste the entirety of the OT 2 platens here as he was planning with a complete critical analysis of the different line items.
Mimsey thought he was A) being funny B) interested in the parallel between bts and man, man and the planet etc. Interestingly enough, Mimsey happened to pick up Jurassic Park and was reading it on the can before going to bed, and what did he open to randomly? The discussion between Malcolm and Dr. Grant about fractals and how the universe repeats itself - they were discussing how a mountain looked the same from a distance, close up at the individual rocks and on a microscopic level.
For the record, I have had various experiences auditing on 3, 4, 5 and 7 that make me believe they may be real. There is a routine on 7 where you ask the bt to go into the sky and decide where to go. I remember auditing one and I lost track of him - when I asked - he was very far away in the sky, but it was this "why are you bothering me" attitude that really surprised me. Completely unexpected response.
I did a lot of 7 following the meter reads, because I didn't get or didn't perceive their telepathic responses. What was difficult was listing & nulling and getting the same answers, session after session - I presumed they were coping or I was dubbing it in. Sometime I did it knowingly sometimes not, but the meter would get the bd's and the f/n's and so I went with it. Sloppy way to run the level? Yeah, but I needed to do something or I'd still be there, pen in hand, meter discharged, covered with cobwebs. However, I did get case gain off the level, and if the feeling moves me, I may go and complete it. But will I have more reality and perception of them? I dunno.
One last thing before I dash off to work - when I was first on OT3, I asked a fellow student, Doc Wellington, how in hell I was supposed to find them to run them? He said - "they are right there. I can see them. Dark spots on my body" I was dumbfounded. Why didn't I have that ability? That began a lot of redoing ot levels to try and get what others got. Later on I was FESing for AOLA and I ran across a folder of a girl - she did a LOT of OT2 and toward the end she started seeing dark masses on her body. Shortly after she was put on 3. I posted about that on this board and someone else said they had the same experience. So who knows?
They could be real, they could be some other phenomena, they could be dub in. Whatever the case, the meter reacts to them. I remember a post from Challenge where she said she felt they were her freinds and the did stuff for her - and I think she said some lived in a tree outside her house. I knew an OT who said a being lived in a tree on his property and he never wanted to cut down the tree since it was his home. Who knows for sure?
Mimsey
PS Mimsey also knows an OT7 who was on the level 5 + years and the biggest BD and dial wide F/N she ever got, was on the realization that she was mocking them up to run.
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Gadfly
Crusader
To me, I have been happy to experiment with anything as far as "my mind" is concerned.
All of this fear of danger of what might happen if somebody ventures into OT III.
A bunch of babies!!!!!
The danger is in the BELIEF SYSTEM. The danger of ANY set of practices is what you end up BELIEVING.
Sure, go try OT III, but please, do NOT take too seriously Hubbard's claims and statements about any of it - not in terms of historical fact, not in terms of these incidents having actually been "real". Treat it all as an experiment in creative visualization (because really, that is what it actually is).
And, don't spend too much of your life with such things. There are a great many OTHER worthwhile mental & spiritual practices out there that will probably have a more positive effect at moving you along a SPIRITUAL JOURNEY. While Scientology pretends to be interested in that, it does little to move someone forward along such a path.
All of this fear of danger of what might happen if somebody ventures into OT III.
A bunch of babies!!!!!
The danger is in the BELIEF SYSTEM. The danger of ANY set of practices is what you end up BELIEVING.
Sure, go try OT III, but please, do NOT take too seriously Hubbard's claims and statements about any of it - not in terms of historical fact, not in terms of these incidents having actually been "real". Treat it all as an experiment in creative visualization (because really, that is what it actually is).
And, don't spend too much of your life with such things. There are a great many OTHER worthwhile mental & spiritual practices out there that will probably have a more positive effect at moving you along a SPIRITUAL JOURNEY. While Scientology pretends to be interested in that, it does little to move someone forward along such a path.
Gadfly
Crusader
That's too bad. I treated them with love and care, as I would treat ANY person or being who has been harmed, and who is lost, alone in the dark.
I extended them complete compassion, with my whole attention and intention.
And, I never had any trouble with any of 'em. :confused2:
And, while it may have all been in my imagination, I imagined them very differently than did you.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
But wait, Scientology would never-ever tell someone they had more BT's if the person did not think they had more BT's because:
"What is true for you is true!"
I am now a bit confused by this seeming contradiction. I am going to look it up on the new, online Scientology search engine, I'll be right back.........
INTERMISSION MUSIC BY LRH
Soundtrack from the Movie
"REVOLT [STRIKE]IN[/STRIKE] OF THE STARS"
(a movie about blowing celebrities, Katie Holmes, Paul Haggis, Lisa Marie Presley, et al....)
Soundtrack from the Movie
"REVOLT [STRIKE]IN[/STRIKE] OF THE STARS"
(a movie about blowing celebrities, Katie Holmes, Paul Haggis, Lisa Marie Presley, et al....)
........okay, I am back from researching it at: http://www.ronoogle.com
Jeez, Wow, OMG, that search engine has the answers to everything in the entire universe!!!
The answer was kinda surprising. It said:
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Don't be afraid. I live in a Universe where probability is a factor. If someone asks me a question, I try to answer honestly; hence the "probably". You'll probably understand what I mean.
But just in case you don't, please note that I also said in the same sentence, the one where you snipped, "I'm on the record here at ESMB as stating unequivocally that I wouldn't recommend the CofS Bridge to my worst enemy (even if I had one)."
I'm guessing that you can accurately assess the likelihood of me actually doing anything such as your script above suggests.... probably.
Now that you have clarified what exactly you are not recommending, I probably now understand why you used the word probably.
The CoS Bridge.
I am guessing that since you didn't just say "Bridge" you probably think there is an alternative Bridge to the CoS Bridge.
Sindy
Crusader
But wait, Scientology would never-ever tell someone they had more BT's if the person did not think they had more BT's because:
"What is true for you is true!"
I am now a bit confused by this seeming contradiction. I am going to look it up on the new, online Scientology search engine, I'll be right back.........
INTERMISSION MUSIC BY LRH
Soundtrack from the Movie
"REVOLT [STRIKE]IN[/STRIKE] OF THE STARS"
(a movie about blowing celebrities, Katie Holmes, Paul Haggis, Lisa Marie Presley, et al....)
........okay, I am back from researching it at: http://www.ronoogle.com
Jeez, Wow, OMG, that search engine has the answers to everything in the entire universe!!!
The answer was kinda surprising. It said:
There is a super secret hidden data line BTBHCOBHCOPL 31 Jan 1967 entitled, BTs LIE, that states (and I am paraphrasing here) "When Pre-OT originates that he has no more BTs, this indicates that his BTs are loaded with their own BTs. This case could take a very, very long time as BTs BTs are extremely lethargic and often have headaches or nausea. When Pre-OT is given this R-Factor, Pre-OT will want to immediately go buy Raid: Ant and Roach Killer. Let the Pre-OT out of session to do this at it raises his havingness. Never let this take longer then 2 days as in 3 days, the BTs BTs will realize they are about to be exorcised and all manner of trouble will beset your Pre-OT. Love, Ron"
Veda
Sponsor
I suggest you go back and re-read the OT 3 materials, all of it.
It's loaded with sneaky "suggestion" (as in hypnotic suggestion). Scientologists don't see (and often don't remember) it as that, but as "helpful" instructions and "guidance," and I don't just mean "Incident 2," etc.
OT 2 has much of same time type of (hypnotically) suggestive oobleck.
A person cannot actually do these levels without opening his mind to them. Some people do them and eventually recover, some people only recover partially, some never recover at all, but mask their mind f__ked state under a veil of PR.
Some are delighted to be mind f--ked by LRH. And remain delighted about it.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I had a similar experience. . .
During my last OT VII sessions, I kept having the recurring thought that it was all imaginary. Per standard tech, I assessed on a meter who was having that thought. It read on it being a BT's thought.
So I got in good two-way-com with that BT and they originated: "The thought that you are merely imagining me the BT--is just your imagination."
I ended off and turned my folder in. It hasn't come back from the C/S yet.
Gadfly
Crusader
In Scientology a preclear should never be invalidated or evaluated for.
It is strict domga.
Unless of course such invalidation or evaluation leads to 1) more money and/or 2) expansion for Scientology.
Is that what is called a contradiction? :confused2:
Note: I used the word "preclear" above and it got me thinking. Hubbard was such a sneaky shit. He used the word pre-clear, that has a built in hidden meaning that, of course, there is such a thing as "post-clear". Or, that such a thing as "clear" even exists at all.
The trap is often in the Scientology nomenclature itself. If you accept the word, term and/or idea, you are already half gone.
It is strict domga.
Unless of course such invalidation or evaluation leads to 1) more money and/or 2) expansion for Scientology.
Is that what is called a contradiction? :confused2:
Note: I used the word "preclear" above and it got me thinking. Hubbard was such a sneaky shit. He used the word pre-clear, that has a built in hidden meaning that, of course, there is such a thing as "post-clear". Or, that such a thing as "clear" even exists at all.
The trap is often in the Scientology nomenclature itself. If you accept the word, term and/or idea, you are already half gone.
Gadfly
Crusader
Smilla
Ordinary Human
A short interlude...
Speaking of alternative bridges, here is William McGonagall's poem about the Tay Bridge Disaster. It was long regared as the worst poem ever written in the english language, until superceeded by Marty's Ode to Ron.
The Tay Bridge Disaster
Beautiful Railway Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay!
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That ninety lives have been taken away
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.
‘Twas about seven o’clock at night,
And the wind it blew with all its might,
And the rain came pouring down,
And the dark clouds seem’d to frown,
And the Demon of the air seem’d to say-
“I’ll blow down the Bridge of Tay.”
When the train left Edinburgh
The passengers’ hearts were light and felt no sorrow,
But Boreas blew a terrific gale,
Which made their hearts for to quail,
And many of the passengers with fear did say-
“I hope God will send us safe across the Bridge of Tay.”
But when the train came near to Wormit Bay,
Boreas he did loud and angry bray,
And shook the central girders of the Bridge of Tay
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.
So the train sped on with all its might,
And Bonnie Dundee soon hove in sight,
And the passengers’ hearts felt light,
Thinking they would enjoy themselves on the New Year,
With their friends at home they lov’d most dear,
And wish them all a happy New Year.
So the train mov’d slowly along the Bridge of Tay,
Until it was about midway,
Then the central girders with a crash gave way,
And down went the train and passengers into the Tay!
The Storm Fiend did loudly bray,
Because ninety lives had been taken away,
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.
As soon as the catastrophe came to be known
The alarm from mouth to mouth was blown,
And the cry rang out all o’er the town,
Good Heavens! the Tay Bridge is blown down,
And a passenger train from Edinburgh,
Which fill’d all the peoples hearts with sorrow,
And made them for to turn pale,
Because none of the passengers were sav’d to tell the tale
How the disaster happen’d on the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.
It must have been an awful sight,
To witness in the dusky moonlight,
While the Storm Fiend did laugh, and angry did bray,
Along the Railway Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay,
Oh! ill-fated Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay,
I must now conclude my lay
By telling the world fearlessly without the least dismay,
That your central girders would not have given way,
At least many sensible men do say,
Had they been supported on each side with buttresses,
At least many sensible men confesses,
For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed.
-William McGonagall
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
LOLOLOL
That was very helpful.
So, in other words the BT'sBTs are actually Pre-BT's? And when I run them on the Grade Chart it removes the final barrier to them becoming full BT?
Veda
Sponsor
This thread is straying off topic.
But... If one counts the number of times "blow him" appears on a NOTs Repair List, there is a sense that a bigger stronger being, evicting smaller weaker beings from a body, is more of an "ethics" handling than an auditing handling, although it also involves auditing.
I never could find the step that allows a BT to not blow if he doesn't want to.
Smilla
Ordinary Human
This thread is straying off topic.
But... If one counts the number of times "blow him" appears on a NOTs Repair List, there is a sense that a bigger stronger being, evicting smaller weaker beings from a body, is more of an "ethics" handling than an auditing handling, although it also involved auditing.
I never could find the step that allows a BT to not blow if he doesn't want to.
In the "Blow and Can't Blow Steps" of Bill Robertson, one option offered to the BT is:
"Stay and help me."
Veda
Sponsor
For the folks at home, that's Ron's Orgs.
That sounds like an improvement, of sort, but then again, Ron's Orgs people also talk to Xenu, and to Elron Elray.
Oh well.
Gadfly
Crusader
Well, if the BT didn't blow, then it couldn't head out, pick up a new body, walk into a Scientology Org, and become a Scientologist - because deep down that 'lil thetan KNOWS that it was Scientology Tech that freed it. The thetan always KNOWS!!!
It is the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics for it to blow.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Honestly?
I actually do not know whether that is a brilliant satirical joke from the brilliant Smilla or a real moronic piece of tech from the moronic Captain Bill.
On those wonderfully curious occasions where one comes face-to-face with an essential thing that is pure Scientology (whether CoS, Indie or FZ) it is always a delicately balanced absurdity that one cannot possibly discern to be either deadly serious belief or divine parody.
Smilla
Ordinary Human
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