Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a mention)

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

I just love how relentless he is, what a good writer he is and how he actually "gets" Scientology so that he can write so clearly about it. So far he has not put a foot wrong. :clap:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

From Comments Section: (emphasis added by me)

Michael Hobson 6 hours ago in reply to sketto

Ron Hubbard cancelled Disconnection in 1968 because the policy was too often abused and because the #1 complaint in the Australian Inquiry (which resulted a total ban against Scientology in Australia) was family disconnection.

It was David Miscavige who ordered this policy reinstated in 1983 specifically for purpose of political control on his own and without the knowledge or permission of Ron Hubbard according to public statements by the late Robert Vaughn Young, who also stated that *he* was the actual author of the 1983 reissue.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist

I got into Scientology several years prior to 1983 and was in for a number of years after 1983. I saw NO change in the policy on Disconnections. :no:

In fact, I personally did a PTS Handling on another staff member (1979 or 1980) as part of a course I was doing and the handling involved a disconnection.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

I got into Scientology several years prior to 1983 and was in for a number of years after 1983. I saw NO change in the policy on Disconnections. :no:

In fact, I personally did a PTS Handling on another staff member (1979 or 1980) as part of a course I was doing and the handling involved a disconnection.

The post from Xenu in reply to Sketto in Free to shine's post pretty well described the situation during the 1970s.
 
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Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Great article from the big O at the Village Voice.

Well unfortunately the death of Virginia's dad is a way out for her and she does not have to address this issue again.

I recall a conversation I had with Margie Pearse, the HCO Sec at the AOSH ANZO at the time, when I joined the SO and had a number of PTS handlings to try and HANDLE my situation with my family. She said to me 'Fortunately both my parents are dead so I don't have to worry.' It shocked me to say the least and that statement did not give me a solution to my the apparent issue I had with my parents, I certainly did not wish them dead to handle it. :no::no:

The mind of a dedicated SO member is a disturbing and callous one to say the least :yes::yes:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

From Comments Section: Michael Hobson 6 hours ago in reply to sketto

Ron Hubbard cancelled Disconnection in 1968 because the policy was too often abused and because the #1 complaint in the Australian Inquiry (which resulted a total ban against Scientology in Australia) was family disconnection.

It was David Miscavige who ordered this policy reinstated in 1983 specifically for purpose of political control on his own and without the knowledge or permission of Ron Hubbard according to public statements by the late Robert Vaughn Young, who also stated that *he* was the actual author of the 1983 reissue.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist



WOG
I read Ron Hubbards policy on murdering people who
disagree with him or Scientology.

SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh, no there is no such policy.

WOG
Here it is, you can read it.

SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh that one! That was only in effect from
1950 thru 1983. Ron canceled it when he
discovered that the policy was too often abused.

WOG
And....the fact that innocent people were systematically
murdered for 33 years doesn't bother you?

SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh no, not at all. It was just a pilot.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

It's possible that Sneakster really doesn't know any better, but Marty&Mike know better, and they continue to pretend that disconnection was cancelled in 1968.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

It's possible that Sneakster really doesn't know any better, but Marty&Mike know better, and they continue to pretend that disconnection was cancelled in 1968.

I hear what you are saying, but how is it even conceivable that Sneakster could not know what happened in Scientology when he was IN Scientology.

Oh wait, he's still in. Maybe that's why.
 
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Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

The Village Voice is a free weekly newspaper and news and features website in New York City that features investigative articles, analysis of current affairs and culture, arts and music coverage, and events listings for New York City.

It was the first and is arguably the best known of the big-city tabloids that came to be known as alternative weeklies.

Nice list of awards. :thumbsup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Voice
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Scooter posts in the Comments:

Paul Schofield 4 hours ago
Thank you Tony, for putting Allen Wright's story out there for all the world to see.

Allen and I worked together in Sydney org courseroom in the early 80s. He and I became firm friends. He was a man of wit, charm and amazing ability. He left the "official Church" around 1983 but but came into the org one day in 1984 to be "handled" by an RTC Mission. I saw him standing by himself and went over for a chat - I was the only staff member to do so. There were a lot of people standing around that day looking daggers at us.

Fast-forward to 2009. I'd just left the cult and Allen and I re-connected. He came back to Oz for a brief visit and I met him at his hotel in St Kilda and drove him to our house on the outskirts of Melbourne. We spent the day chatting in the yard. I drove him back to his hotel late that night and he went to country Victoria on business then back to Switzerland. He looked dreadful physically - I didn't recognize the old man he'd become at first as he'd always been very healthy - but he was the same old Al, even flirting outrageously with my wife, just like he'd done with the girls back when we were working together.

He told me he had a "physical problem" but nothing more. He chatted about his life since leaving $cientology in Sydney and he had only one regret about it all - his beloved daughters had disconnected from him. He was still a devoted follower of Hubbard - far more so than most of the current group of scilons I know - and he spoke a bit of some of his adventures. He even told me of his first encounter with David Miscavige in the early 80s and how Al's gut reaction was "this guy's like the Gestapo." The time went way too quickly and we agreed to stay in touch and had sporadic contact after that. I hoped to catch up with him in the flesh again someday and was gutted when I was told he'd died.

Allen lived life to the full and was a man of amazing talents. I'm proud to have known him and I pity his daughters for missing out on having his counsel for all the years they shunned him. I knew Virginia well as she was a teenager in the courseroom for several years after I took that over from Al in the mid-80s. Before she joined CMO and was then "swapped" to OSA ANZO because of some "out-Qual."

Underneath that vacant gaze you see on the TV is a good person. It's too late for her to reconnect with her Dad but it's not too late for her to re-connect with the real world.
 
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Great article from the big O at the Village Voice.

Well unfortunately the death of Virginia's dad is a way out for her and she does not have to address this issue again.

I recall a conversation I had with Margie Pearse, the HCO Sec at the AOSH ANZO at the time, when I joined the SO and had a number of PTS handlings to try and HANDLE my situation with my family. She said to me 'Fortunately both my parents are dead so I don't have to worry.' It shocked me to say the least and that statement did not give me a solution to my the apparent issue I had with my parents, I certainly did not wish them dead to handle it. :no::no:

The mind of a dedicated SO member is a disturbing and callous one to say the least :yes::yes:

Freaky:

Letter to family member or lifelong friend:

"Dear x,

You know how much I love you and how much trouble that causes me with the Church of Scientology, with their disconnection policy. Some times I lie awake at night and just wish you were dead so I did not have to deal with it.

Much Love.
etc...."
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

You gotta read this!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/scientology_virginia_stewart_allen_wright.php

In this article Tony carefully pulls apart Virginia's lies about disconnection. She disconnected from her own father for 23 years because he left Scn and went to study under Bill Robertson.

Read more at the Voice.... :biggrin:

I just have to say this was a great way to start the day! I was so annoyed about Virginia's bald faced lies the other day, so thankyou Tony O and Emma and unnamed exes! :happydance:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

. . . <snip> . . . His output has been so prolific recently that I fear he might attract direct action, either at the orders of management or from some misguided Hubbard apologist acting on his or her own initiative. I know that OSA is much diminished from what it formerly was, and that the public (and law enforcement, and legislators) are wise to a lot of Scientology trickery now... Still, Tony's landing some pretty heavy blows against the abuses and idiocy of Scientology, and he seems to have stepped up the pace to be just about daily . . . <snip> . . .

OSA is still is malevolent and as well funded as it has always been. Probably more so. Do not get suckered into the M²&M² Show meme that OSA is just a bunch of morons with cameras on their heads. That's a sideshow. The Tortega recently discussed how some friends from his past are being contacted by PIs digging dirt, he knows he's in the gun . . . but seems somewhat less than shuddered into silence ; )
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

:wow: EXCELLENT article! Well done, Tony. :thumbsup:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

From Comments Section:

Michael Hobson 6 hours ago in reply to sketto

Ron Hubbard cancelled Disconnection in 1968 because the policy was too often abused and because the #1 complaint in the Australian Inquiry (which resulted a total ban against Scientology in Australia) was family disconnection.

It was David Miscavige who ordered this policy reinstated in 1983 specifically for purpose of political control on his own and without the knowledge or permission of Ron Hubbard according to public statements by the late Robert Vaughn Young, who also stated that *he* was the actual author of the 1983 reissue.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist

I got into Scientology several years prior to 1983 and was in for a number of years after 1983. I saw NO change in the policy on Disconnections. :no:

In fact, I personally did a PTS Handling on another staff member (1979 or 1980) as part of a course I was doing and the handling involved a disconnection.

How can any honest and slightly sane person write what Hobson did? But then, it seems some Scientologists are extremely unwilling to "confront" what is actually THERE! :duh:

I got involved in Scientology in 1976. There were SP declares and it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE that one did NOT communicate with ANY SP, because then YOU became guilty of a suppressive act, and YOU would get declared. The list of suppressive acts have been around since at least the early 1960s (see the first ethics book).

The simply fact that it is a published and enforced "suppressive act" to continue to communicate with any SP enforces the practice of disconnection no matter what else is or isn't written about it.

Hubbard somewhere even stated that the "cancellation" of Fair Game and Disconnection was ONLY for PR reasons, and that the actions would continue happily along as they aways had.

That any person can acually believe that Miscavige is doing anything different than what happened before is STUPID at best and knowingly LYING at the worst. Granted, Miscavige may have increased the severity of "ethics" since Hubbard kicked the bucket, but I don't doubt for a second that if Hubbard were alive and in control over the past 35 years that EXACTLY the same things would have happened in response to the events that transpired since then (mainly the Internet and the exposure of Scientology behaviors).

Hubbard is the apple tree, and Miscavige is just an apple who has fallen off. :yes:

These quotes are from the 1975 edition of "Introduction to Scientology Ethics", which was previously published in 1973 and 1968:

HIGH CRIMES
(SUPPRESSIVE ACTS)

A SUPPRESSIVE PERSON or GROUP is one that actively seeks to suppress or damage Scientology or a Scientologist by Suppressive Acts.

Suppressive Acts are acts calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist and which are listed at length below.

Suppressive Acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

B. DISAVOWAL, SPLINTERING, DIVERGENCE

6. Continued adherence to a group pronounced a Suppressive Group by the Hubbard Communications Office.

7. Aiding or abetting a person demonstrably guilty of Suppressive Acts in such acts.

10. Continued membership in a divergent group.


It has ALWAYS BEEN STANDARD to interpret the above High Crimes (aka "suppressive acts") as including "ANY COMMUNICATION with any declared SP". Any person declared as an SP is viewed as an ENEMY of the Church. No matter how you say it, it is long-standing tradition in the Church, based on MUCH LRH policy, that consorting with ANY ENEMY is NOT at all tolerated or viewed positively. An SP is ALWAYS considered as part of a "divergent group" and ALWAYS considered "demonstrably guilty of Suppressive Acts". For any Scientologist to even TALK to such a person is considered "aiding and abetting" that person.

So, in accordance with these long-standing High Crimes, which have appeared in EVERY "Ethics Book" since it was first released, it has ALWAYS been a Suppressive Act to remain in communication with ANY declared SP. ALWAYS. Does THAT not make sense to you Sneakster? :duh:

Granted, with each new release of the ethics book, many MORE "suppressive acts" have been added, though largely as a result of culling related information from Hubbard's various policies that were released AFTER the Ethics Book - and NOT because nasty Miscavige clones have been "adding to the wonderful pure tech of Ron".

When I first got involved in Boston, and for the years between 1977-1983 while in the Sea Org, the idea of an SP was HORRIBLE. It was constantly impressed upon staff and public as a VERY BAD THING. And, it was ALWAYS viewed very negatively to remain in ANY communication with ANY SP. It was NEVER thought that one could "handle" a "declared SP". The ONLY option per the exact LRH tech was DISCONNECTION. There never was ANY other alternative. NEVER! That is common sense and quite obvious to any person with any degree of experience with REAL Scientology behaviors.

If ANY person chose to remain in communication with a "declared SP", there was ONLY ONE result - you also would get declared, and the dominoes would continue to fall as each new person refused to cut communication with any SP. Regardless of any issue on disconnection or Fair Game, the above has ALWAYS been Standard Operating Procedure with Scientology.

Anything else is LIES and PR and typical Scientology LRH-created BULLSHIT! :ohmy: :yes: :omg:

There is also an extant LRH policy on Deptartment 3 (ethics) that very specifically states, "be sure to take out ALL the connections when declaring anyone as an SP". Meaning, to be sure to also declare any person connected to that newly declared SP (who remains connected and fails to disconnect).

To make matters FAR worse, it is also a Suppressive Act to question or criticize ANYTHING ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY, no matter whether the criticisms are true or not. So, once any person does THAT, then he or she gets "declared as an SP", and the chain of connections and declares continues.

The bottom line is that ANYTHING that might hurt Scientology in any way, regardless whether Scientology is wrong or not, is considered "evil" (suppressive). The blanket assumption is that Scientology is ALWAYS "right", and it must ALWAYS "be protected". SP Declares and disconnection follow naturally per policy to "help Scientology succeed and expand". Of course, they are much too stupid (over-indoctrinated) to notice that their continued "per policy" actions consistently make them out to be THE MAJOR IDIOTS of the modern era.

Just another of many contradictions in Scientology. Hubbard says that if one follows LRH policy that Scientology will "expand". The TRUTH is that following LRH ethics and justice policies about SP declares and disconnection, when learned about truthfully by the public at large, creates much WORSE PR for Scientology and acts to HARM THEM even more than they would have if they never bothered to apply thge crazy LRH policies in the first place. Thus, the "footbullet" phenomena that is so common when following LRH advice on how to "help & expand Scientology".

That any Scientology spokesperson can come out and state that "there is no such thing as disconnection" simply again demonstrates how much they can and do happily LIE and LIE and LIE whenever they imagine that it will "help" them. Thet never stop playing the LRH game of "mock-ups". What game is that? Just come out and say whatever you want to be viewed as "truth", using manipulative ARCU, keep saying it, over and over, and get enough people to agree so that it becomes "real". The big problem for Scientology being that there are now FAR too many existing reports and actual observations of events and situations that show what they assert to be true is actually FALSE. The game of Scientology "mock-ups" utterly fails when spitting directly in the face of easily observable FACTS! :ohmy:

Scientology - where the stupid NEVER sleeps!
 
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freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

I would say that she would be off the hook if she went to the funeral. Did she?

A few letters after 22 years doesn't show much bonding.

I don't think his death has buried the issue.
Great article from the big O at the Village Voice.

Well unfortunately the death of Virginia's dad is a way out for her and she does not have to address this issue again.

I recall a conversation I had with Margie Pearse, the HCO Sec at the AOSH ANZO at the time, when I joined the SO and had a number of PTS handlings to try and HANDLE my situation with my family. She said to me 'Fortunately both my parents are dead so I don't have to worry.' It shocked me to say the least and that statement did not give me a solution to my the apparent issue I had with my parents, I certainly did not wish them dead to handle it. :no::no:

The mind of a dedicated SO member is a disturbing and callous one to say the least :yes::yes:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

How can any honest and slightly sane person write what Hobson did? But then, it seems some Scientologists are extremely unwilling to "confront" what is actually THERE! :duh:

I got involved in Scientology in 1976. There were SP declares and it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE that one did NOT communicate with ANY SP, because then YOU became guilty of a suppressive act, and YOU would get declared. The list of suppressive acts have been around since at least the early 1960s (see the first ethics book).

The simply fact that it is a published and enforced "suppressive act" to continue to communicate with any SP enforces the practice of disconnection no matter what else is or isn't written about it.

Hubbard somewhere even stated that the "cancellation" of Fair Game and Disconnection was ONLY for PR reasons, and that the actions would continue happily along as they aways had.

That any person can acually believe that Miscavige is doing anything different than what happened before is STUPID at best and knowingly LYING at the worst. Granted, Miscavige may have increased the severity of "ethics" since Hubbard kicked the bucket, but I don't doubt for a second that if Hubbard were alive and in control over the past 35 years that EXACTLY the same things would have happened in response to the events that transpired since then (mainly the Internet and the exposure of Scientology behaviors).

Hubbard is the apple tree, and Miscavige is just an apple who has fallen off. :yes:


It's sometimes hard to determine with certainty if a Scientologist is:

a) A knowing liar.

b) A deluded and/or delusional person who doesn't suspect they are lying.

c) A wanker who gets off on Ron's spiritual pornography.

d) A do-gooder who doesn't actually know good from bad.

d) A drowning individual who desperately clings to a lead life-preserver called "tech".

One thing that I have observed over the decades, however, is that Scientology makes liars out of everyone who joins.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

You know, I'd really like to know how the hell they do this.

What do they do send out PI's who go knocking on people's doors and start asking them questions about Tony?

I wouldn't answer any questions from someone who did that.

And then yesterday reading about Jim Little's wife's mother, pounding on her door and demanding she sign something.

How do you let people get away with this shit?

Why answer their questions?

Why sign their papers?

Who the fuck are they?

Any ex OSA here want to explain this, how they do it?

Yes, I also see what Freeminds is saying but, since Tony has decided to take them on (with all of us) then the more visibility the better. He needs to keep plugging now until the entire world sees him as the expert journalist on the cult's ass. He needs to be visible. They can play their cloak and dagger bullshit games but out in the open, where all the world can see, is probably the best place he can be.

He is not alone. :)
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

I'd like to see him burn his name into the history books so deep that it obliterates Hubbards and all that he created.
Yes. Lovely mentions of ESMB (and a link!) and Ems. :)

One huge advantage Tony Ortega has is that by both publishing lots of fairly accurate articles and by being a real journalist and doing due diligence and his own research and so forth is that he has built up a large following of knowledgeable exes and critics. And these people feed him lots of fast leads to stories so he gets scoops. As well as comment voluminously on his pieces giving him even more data in the feedback.

Paul
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Excerpted from Jan 19 article at http://newsone.com/nation/associatedpress3/human-head-found-near-hollywood-sign/:
LOS ANGELES — An investigation unfolding near the iconic Hollywood sign in Los Angeles is playing out like a gory movie script, as police worked to identity a man whose body was found in parts over the past two days – first a head on Tuesday, then two hands and two feet on Wednesday. <snip>​
Paul

:omg: That is so evil and so sick. I'm sorry I asked for a reference. I'm glad I don't live in L.A. anymore.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

The mind of a dedicated SO member is a disturbing and callous one to say the least

It's a funny "religion" that makes people so cold.
 
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