Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a mention)

Happy Days

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Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

It's a funny "religion" that makes people so cold.

Well it is after all 'HANDLE OR DISCONNECT' and with all the labels that one gets attached along the way.... downstat; degraded being; out ethics; low toned; suppressive; joker and degrader; List Oner; in lowers; PTS; reasonable; out exchange; disaffected; Type 3. I'm not at all surprised..... sigh
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

That's right, Happy Days, and it's a constant amazement that there are SO many names and words and labels for what Scnists consider the bad shit, and so few to describe the good stuff. It sure says something about their mindset.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

That's right, Happy Days, and it's a constant amazement that there are SO many names and words and labels for what Scnists consider the bad shit, and so few to describe the good stuff. It sure says something about their mindset.

Indeed! Elcon's statement of 2.5 % bad turned out to be 2.5 % "good". Slight error.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Wow, finally got on a pc that let me get to the Village Voices latest article, what a great read! The comments section is always a good read too, 'cept for Sneaks sticking his foot in his mouth (face-palm #598) and getting ass-raped ,it was entertaining.... nahhhhh, that part was good too :p

Rock On Tony O ! :cheers: & :cake:
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

..."One thing that I have observed over the decades, however, is that Scientology makes liars out of everyone who joins."...

At some point a Perfect liar believes their own lies. That's is the point where the fraud can succeed. The followers will follow and spread more sincere conviction.

My thoughts..
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Some of the comments from the article....


Xenu 3 hours ago in reply to Sketto

Since I worked for HCO [Hubbard Communications Office] during the 1970s, I'd thought I'd chime in with what I personally witnessed during those years.

Hubbard actually did cancel disconnection, after Australia had cracked down, and New Zealand was on the verge of outlawing the cult. Not only did he cancel disconnection, but he also banned Fair Game, sec checks, and the recording of what went on in auditing sessions. Way cool, huh?

The only problem was that the policy letter cancelling those things was only issued to the New Zealand government commission that was considering the banning of Scientology
[note: It was also mentioned in a few other places, such a PR book written for Scientology, and, as I recall, an article, written by Hubbard, for the 'Mayfair', etc., and there was a show made of displaying Hubbard's 1968 faux "Reform Code" for "wogs" and "raw meat."]

I oversaw a ton of disconnection during the 1970s, and had to disconnect from a couple of people myself. I personally saw that they continued to happen at major Class IV [now called Class V] and SO [Sea Org] orgs just as they always had. Nothing changed... Sec checks and Fair Game continued, despite the wholly disingenuous sham of policy change.

Andre Tabayoyon, and various other poster here, who were in HCO in the '70s, can easily vouch for me on this
...
 

loose cannon

Patron with Honors
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

The only problem was that the policy letter cancelling those things was only issued to the New Zealand government commission that was considering the banning of Scientology [note: It was also mentioned in a few other places, such a PR book written for Scientology, and, as I recall, an article, written by Hubbard, for the 'Mayfair', etc., and there was a show made of displaying Hubbard's 1968 faux "Reform Code" for "wogs" and "raw meat."]
Interesting. I'd swear I've seen the PL in the green volumes too and I thought that that sort of guaranteed the PL was in power. But of course I can be wrong about either point.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Interesting. I'd swear I've seen the PL in the great volumes too and I thought that that sort of guaranteed the PL was in power. But of course I can be wrong about either point.

There was 'Green on White" issued announcing the "Reform Code" and cancelling Disconnection, Fair Game, Security Checking. At the same time, the 'Green on White' instructing that these practices continue was unchanged.

There were superficial modifications. For example, the name of Security Checking was changed to Integrity Processing, and even then there appeared various new Sec Checks, which were called Sec Checks - such as the Musicians Security Check, which was used on the Apollo Stars. In January 1977, Hubbard announced the return of the name Security Checking, as the "flap" had blown over. The term 'Fair Game', on the other hand, was never brought back, as it was too controversial, even though Fair Gaming continued as always. Disconnection went through various similar attempts at camouflaging, but Hubbard's instructions re. "cutting comm with SPs" (unless being a covert Operative, a high level PR, or someone writing a supervised 'good roads and fair weather' letter to an antagonistic grandmother), and its implementation, continued. It should be noted that "good roads and fair weather" was in use since 1965, and, itself, is a form of disconnection, as no real communication occurs, and the person writing the letter believes that the other person is an "SP," etc.

In other words, while there was some slippery game playing, nothing really changed.

And I can assure you, from first hand experience, that there were plenty of people declared "SPs" in the 1970s, and that these "SPs" were subjected to disconnection. It was taken very seriously.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

There was 'Green on White" issued announcing the "Reform Code" and cancelling Disconnection, Fair Game, Security Checking. At the same time, the 'Green on White' instructing that these practices continue was unchanged.

There were superficial modifications. For example, the name of Security Checking was changed to Integrity Processing, and even then there appeared various new Sec Checks, which were called Sec Checks - such as the Musicians Security Check, which was used on the Apollo Stars. In January 1977, Hubbard announced the return of the name Security Checking, as the "flap" had blown over. The term 'Fair Game', on the other hand, was never brought back, as it was too controversial, even though Fair Gaming continued as always. Disconnection went through various similar attempts at camouflaging, but Hubbard's instructions re. "cutting comm with SPs" (unless being a covert Operative, a high level PR, or someone writing a supervised 'good roads and fair weather letter to an antagonistic grandmother), and its implementation continued. It should be noted that "good reads and fair weather" was in use since 1965, and, itself, is a form of disconnection, as no real communication occurs, and the person writing the letter believes that the other person is an "SP," etc.

In other words, while there was some slippery game playing, nothing really changed.

And I can assure you, from first hand experience, that there were plenty of people declared "SPs" in the 1970s, and that these "SPs" were subjected to disconnection. It was taken very seriously.


Confirmed across the boards. I was in the Sea Org starting in 1969, worked at St. Hills, AO's, later in orgs and missions. All this on different continents and various cities. I was on tech and qual lines, auditing and c/sing and "correcting" those who erred.

In my direct experience over decades, the handling of SPs & Disconnection never changed for one moment. I personally saw staff and public ordered to disconnect. Was myself ordered to disconnect from people who were declared including family members.

There was no slightest doubt or reservation about applying Hubbard's disconnection tech at ANY time throughout those decades.

Any staff member knew full well that this was to be applied no matter what it was called.

Sec checks never stopped. Oppressive ethics never stopped. Fair Game never stopped. None of it missed a beat.

Anyone who is claiming otherwise is either delusional or a liar.

And those who want to play make-believe and pretend that Hubbard "cancelled" or lightened the ethics gradients is completely disconnected from reality.

The spin that Indie Scientologists are putting on all this is laughable to anyone who actually worked in those organizations.

The coverup artists are running Hubbard's dead-agent tactics and other fail-strategem.

It's embarrassing to watch them try to sell lies to people who know what they are doing.
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Tony O: is that dog putting his shit on my grass?

M. H. : no, it is forbidden since few years...he is doing #2......:melodramatic:
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Michael Hobson 6 hours ago in reply to sketto
Ron Hubbard cancelled Disconnection in 1968 because the policy was too often abused and because the #1 complaint in the Australian Inquiry (which resulted a total ban against Scientology in Australia) was family disconnection.

It was David Miscavige who ordered this policy reinstated in 1983 specifically for purpose of political control on his own and without the knowledge or permission of Ron Hubbard according to public statements by the late Robert Vaughn Young, who also stated that *he* was the actual author of the 1983 reissue.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist


Hobson,

You know as well as everyone else knows that your post above is a pack of PR lies.

Anyone reading your BS that has been 'disconnected' from is probably wanting to give you a good slap about now.

You also know that the disgusting HUBBARD policy (on disconnection) doesn't even need to be implemented officially to be effective ... gutless narcissistic scientologists use it when they cannot handle or confront normal family issues and any 'cancellation' was for PR purposes only and disconnection continued throughout the period you mention (68 -- 83).

Any respect I had for you just went sailing straight out the window.

You are an attention seeker of magnitude (quick, QUICK ... report this post).

:whatever:
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Calling out Sneakster!

I respect ya like a mother man, but can you address your assertions/inuendos in the comments section of this article in the OP?

Just wonderin if its been a bad day or somethin' :cheers: or some 'Golum-like' struggle going on... :hug:

:shrug:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Hobson,

You know as well as everyone else knows that your post above is a pack of PR lies.

Anyone reading your BS that has been 'disconnected' from is probably wanting to give you a good slap about now.

You also know that the disgusting HUBBARD policy (on disconnection) doesn't even need to be implemented officially to be effective ... gutless narcissistic scientologists use it when they cannot handle or confront normal family issues and any 'cancellation' was for PR purposes only and disconnection continued throughout the period you mention (68 -- 83).

Any respect I had for you just went sailing straight out the window.

You are an attention seeker of magnitude (quick, QUICK ... report this post).

:whatever:



Thank God somebody opened up a window and let some fresh air in!

I hate when Scientologists try to commandeer all the oxygen and replace it with noxious choking fumes.

WHOOOOOOOSH! I can breathe again. Thanks!
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

I got into Scientology several years prior to 1983 and was in for a number of years after 1983. I saw NO change in the policy on Disconnections. :no:

In fact, I personally did a PTS Handling on another staff member (1979 or 1980) as part of a course I was doing and the handling involved a disconnection.

Me too.

challenge
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Great article from the big O at the Village Voice.

Well unfortunately the death of Virginia's dad is a way out for her and she does not have to address this issue again.

I recall a conversation I had with Margie Pearse, the HCO Sec at the AOSH ANZO at the time, when I joined the SO and had a number of PTS handlings to try and HANDLE my situation with my family. She said to me 'Fortunately both my parents are dead so I don't have to worry.' It shocked me to say the least and that statement did not give me a solution to my the apparent issue I had with my parents, I certainly did not wish them dead to handle it. :no::no:

The mind of a dedicated SO member is a disturbing and callous one to say the least :yes::yes:

Yeah. I'll be 81 in a few weeks,and my daughter will no longer have to be poked about disconnecting from me.:screwy:
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

- snip

Hobson,

Anyone reading your BS that has been 'disconnected' from is probably wanting to give you a good slap about now.



Where are you Hobson?

I want to come slap you right now!

WAKE UP! (TONE 40).

You're still caught up in the clutchs of a mind-control cult leader! And he's been dead for almost 30 years!

Oh, I get it.....you're not going to respond on this thread because you're "disconnecting" from our entheta. :duh:
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Here's another 70's disconnection story (obviously a fantasy because Michael Hobson, the self proclaimed "world-wide expert" on all things Hubbard say's it didn't happen).

Mother of two young teenagers gets into the cult. Makes them take intro courses. One child refuses to continue. Mother tells the teenager that if they refuse to continue they'll have to move out.

Child spends the next 8 years of their life living in a combination of on the street, staying in the homes of school friends (so many they can't recall the exact number) and with various relatives.

All these years later, in a recent conversation with me and with tears in his/her eyes, he/she asks me, "What kind of mother would do that to their own child?"

Can you answer that Michael Hobson?

I can.

A SCIENTOLOGIST!​
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

From Comments Section: Michael Hobson 6 hours ago in reply to sketto





WOG
I read Ron Hubbards policy on murdering people who
disagree with him or Scientology.

SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh, no there is no such policy.

WOG
Here it is, you can read it.

SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh that one! That was only in effect from
1950 thru 1983. Ron canceled it when he
discovered that the policy was too often abused.

WOG
And....the fact that innocent people were systematically
murdered for 33 years doesn't bother you?

SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh no, not at all. It was just a pilot.

In fact, there was one line in a HubTurd bulletin that said something about only auditing espees on R2-45. I don't think that the HubTurd intended it to be taken literally, BUT ... if someone DID ... and if some hotshot prostitutor had his shit together and understood the way the HubTurd expected his orders to be carried out, how he had hooples holding his ashtray, about how people would scurry around when he was throwing a temper tantrum, etc... the HubTurd could have rightfully been charged with some count of manslaughter via depraved indiference.
There was also the issue about the death of Suzanne Meister, whom might have been killed personally by the HubTurd, just so he could prove to himself that he could get away with murder, literally.

Pete
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Tony O exposes Virginia Stewart's lies regarding disconnection (ESMB gets a menti

Here's another 70's disconnection story (obviously a fantasy because Michael Hobson, the self proclaimed "world-wide expert" on all things Hubbard say's it didn't happen).

Mother of two young teenagers gets into the cult. Makes them take intro courses. One child refuses to continue. Mother tells the teenager that if they refuse to continue they'll have to move out.

Child spends the next 8 years of their life living in a combination of on the street, staying in the homes of school friends (so many they can't recall the exact number) and with various relatives.

All these years later, in a recent conversation with me and with tears in his/her eyes, he/she asks me, "What kind of mother would do that to their own child?"

Can you answer that Michael Hobson?

I can.

A SCIENTOLOGIST!​

Very sad, but entirely TRUE!

Every possible relationship takes a far back seat to any Church member's "relationship" with the Church and Hubbard. That includes any family relationship. The top level priority per exact Hubbard policy is "being 100% with Ron & Scientology". Any person who falls short of THAT is considered "counter-intentioned" or "other-intentioned", is viewed as "entheta", is viewed as "out-ethics", is viewed as "not on-board with the rest of us totally dedicated salvagers of the Universe", and should NOT BE BOTHERED WITH.

Scientology makes things very easy for the card-carrying Scientologist. All of life's many questions and concerns reduce down to one single Top Priority thing - HELP SCIENTOLOGY (or else)! Everything is judged and evaluated against THAT senior consideration. That is why these people are FANATICS. They are "single-minded" beyond belief. And, by the way, that is NOT a "good thing". :no:
 

Veda

Sponsor
A follow up message, re. disconnection, from Xenu, over at Tony O's

Xenu 3 hours ago in reply to Sketto:

Since I worked for HCO [Hubbard Communications Office] during the 1970s, I'd thought I'd chime in with what I personally witnessed during those years.

Hubbard actually did cancel disconnection, after Australia had cracked down, and New Zealand was on the verge of outlawing the cult. Not only did he cancel disconnection, but he also banned Fair Game, sec checks, and the recording of what went on in auditing sessions. Way cool, huh?

The only problem was that the policy letter cancelling those things was only issued to the New Zealand government commission that was considering the banning of Scientology.
[note: It was also mentioned in a few other places, such a PR book written for Scientology, and, as I recall, an article, written by Hubbard, for the 'Mayfair', etc., and there was a show made of displaying Hubbard's 1968 faux "Reform Code" for "wogs" and "raw meat."]

I oversaw a ton of disconnection during the 1970s, and had to disconnect from a couple of people myself. I personally saw that they continued to happen at major Class IV [now called Class V] and SO [Sea Org] orgs just as they always had. Nothing changed... Sec checks and Fair Game continued, despite the wholly disingenuous sham of policy change.

Andre Tabayoyon, and various other poster here, who were in HCO in the '70s, can easily vouch for me on this
...

Here's some more from Xenu over at Tony O's at the Village Voice:

...Hubbard was getting a lot of PR flack over disconnection, so he wrote a policy which would help PR a lot without changing anything significant. I'm sure it was meant to be misunderstood by outsiders...

The policy did NOT cancel disconnection, rather it said that 'disconnection as a condition' was cancelled. Now, one might well ask, WTF is 'disconnection as a condition'?

If you dig through some ancient ethics folders, you would find that they would often explicitly state that the subject of the ethics order was to disconnect from one or more other parties who would be named in the ethics order, and that reinstatement to good standing would not happen until that had been done. THAT was disconnection as a condition.

So we stopped naming names of people to be disconnected from in ethics orders. Instead, Type A PTS would be told that they had to handle or disconnect, and if handling was impossible, well, too bad! And people still had to disconnect from SPs... the Nov '68 policy had no real impact other than PR.
 
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