Too Much Cruelty

[Smurf]

Mary Arbuckle died

Obviously, Carleen was disconnected from her for several years until a short time before she died. She posted this tribute to her sister in 2009..

from Carleen

"Mary was a wonderful sister to grow up with...being the closest in age to each other, we shared toys, bedrooms, clothes, school books, secrets. Later as teenagers we shared music and even a boyfriend once! (We learned from each other years later that he was dating both of us at the same time!). We remained close after joining the Sea Org. We worked in the same church for several years and spent a year training at Flag together where we became a famous duo nicknamed Snifter and Snifter Sister. We never knew who was which, it didn't matter. We shared so much in good times and hard times for 48 years.

In my life, she has been my closest sister and my closest friend. In the last several years, though she didn't speak to or see me, this never changed for me. In late March of this year, I was able to see her and we talked. It ended with "I love you" and a tight, long hug. Mary, I wish you the best there is in all the wonders and goodness and incredible possibilities on the road before you..."

Mary passed away on Sunday, September 20, 2009.

 

[degraded being]

Oz had a Prime Minister many years ago called Paul Keating.

Keating is justifiably famous for his insults and his ability to polarize people into loving or hating him/his ideas.

His rationale for all this was:

It got them talking and thinking about it.

That was what he saw was the "Big Picture" role he wanted to play in Oz history. He LOVED being such a polarizing figure.

Methinks Alanzo had something similar going on but not quite the ability Keating has to ride the storm and keep it fermenting along. While dancing away from any attempts to disprove his original statement.

But 84 pages and counting is still pretty good. And it's flushed up a lot of stuff that's been uncomfortably sat on around here for ages.

Now I'm leaving this thread forever as I really do have cult-bashing stuff to do - I'll update you all on it once "we" have achieved a few goals.

You're gonna love that.

And, because it's appropriate, and I can,

FUCK YOU, OSA

The weather's great today isn't it?
Well, let's take a look at that. First you have framed your question in such a way that it presupposes positive agreement. And should be we talking about what is great? Why don't we talk about what the weather is in terms of what it meant to me x years ago. That's where this discussion should be be headed. You really have to get to grips with your opinions about the weather and how that has affected..........

 

[Smurf]

For some back history for those that weren't here, Zinj was the one starting this whole OSAOSAOSAOSA paranoia war cry about the board being infiltrated, people being compromised by OSA, and many of those departed flocked to his banner, especially with the soft landing idea being suggested to show some kindness for new people arriving to get their ESMB legs. The irony is that Zinj had a known OSA operative in his life then and now. So when Zinj was eventually banned for his vitriolic attacks against Emma and others here, Alanzo followed suite with his attacks towards Emma and others, his eventual banning and many left in protest, hence the toxic Trainspotting and Message Bored where they revel in their own venom. All very emotionally manipulative bullshit that's still going on to this day lead by Zinj and many had fell for it, such as Alanzo.

One thing to remember is that Joe posted on ESMB that he was an active critic of Scientology during at the same time he dated & married Carleen, who chose to remain an active Scientologist at CC Int. for 6 years after they married "because she didn't want to leave." Joe posted this long after the period he claims all this took place. How convenient.

Imagine what would have occurred if an active critic of the cult had the balls to admit to his fellow critics.. "Hey guys, I fell in love with & married a Scientologist, but she wants to remain in the church, so I'll just keep protesting against her church with you guys"...

 

[Smurf]

Found it!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/330979943625378/permalink/389484887774883/

LOL. The dweeb blocked me, but I was able to access it from an old Facebook page. I noticed some of the critics in Joe's group posts here & on SPs R Us.

 

[Smurf]

Another good reason to chuck FB. Talk about getting a life; I used to hate that phrase, but at some point people have to return to being people, ie do stuff we used to do. Like chase fireflies. Make s'mores. Live life instead of talking about it.

Are you f*cking crazy??

 

[Purple Rain]

LOL. The dweeb blocked me, but I was able to access it from an old Facebook page. I noticed some of the critics in Joe's group posts here & on SPs R Us.

How can you tell who is in a group?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Whether in full quotes or snipped Claire, your posts are their for anyone to read and you're common tactics listed below are why you get called on so many of your comments while making yourself into the victim, which in turn becomes a big drama. A drama you've been relishing for years here. Yawn.

Quotes do work!

How To Combat Manipulation:
http://www.bandbacktogether.com/psychological-manipulation-resources/
http://psychopathsandlove.com/covert-emotional-manipulation-tactics/
2. Take notes! Take notes about conversations and important points, so that you can refer back to those notes later when a manipulator claims a conversation went a different way or never happened.

Denying/ Invalidating reality: Invalidating distorts or undermines the victim’s perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or will not acknowledge reality. For example, if the victim confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, “I never said that,” “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” The same as gaslighting, really, a tactic which is explained below.

Minimizing: The manipulator will tell you you’re making a big deal out of nothing or that you’re “exaggerating” when you confront him with something he’s done.

Diversion and Evasion: When you ask a question, instead of answering it he may use diversion (steering the conversation to another topic) or evasion (giving an irrelevant, vague and often rambling response).

Gaslighting: An especially frustrating manipulation tactic where you know you heard him say something or saw him do something but when you confront him, he simply denies it. It seems obvious enough but if it’s repeated often, victims can begin to question their “version” of reality. We also want to believe whatever it was didn’t happen, so we may let this absurdity slip by. I forget who said “words are more real than reality,” but that sums it up.

Lying - By the time the truth is apparent, it may be too late to do anything about it. Many manipulative personality types are experts at lying and may do so in subtle ways that are hard to detect.

Shaming - Sarcasm and insults can be used by the manipulator to increase self-doubt and fear in the victim, to make the victim feel unworthy. This may be accomplished by anything from a very subtle fierce look or unpleasant tone of voice to a rhetorical comment. This may make the victim feel badly for daring to challenge them, which also fosters a sense of inadequacy in the victim.

I've not mentioned or implied or stated here that I'm a victim or that anyone's doing anything to me or anything of the sort. So that's a non issue.

I know you don't like what I said to Hoaxie. And I know Hoaxie didn't like it either. And that's fine. You can feel the way you feel.

I reposted and quoted what I'd said two days before you did. So I'm obviously fine with what I said and with its being said. If you and HH want to continue to discuss this and say what you guys want to say, then that's your choice.

 

[Smurf]

This thread seems quite cathartic to me, not so much to me personally because all of the "Zinj stuff" was "over there" somewhere and I never went there so never knew much about it, other than there was some sort of shit going on. But it seems cathartic to ESMB in general somehow. And despite the nasty stuff being discussed it actually seems very calm here compared to a few short days ago. Is it just a good time of the month for me? Am I projecting?

Allow me to assist with your catharsis..

[video=youtube;mpjSjvD2gfA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjSjvD2gfA#t=37[/video]

To Joe Lynn: Are you drunk?

JL: Well.. I haven't had my last test yet.. but I don't think I am.

 

[Claire Swazey]

One thing to remember is that Joe posted on ESMB that he was an active critic of Scientology during at the same time he dated & married Carleen, who chose to remain an active Scientologist at CC Int. for 6 years after they married "because she didn't want to leave." Joe posted this long after the period he claims all this took place. How convenient.

Imagine what would have occurred if an active critic of the cult had the balls to admit to his fellow critics.. "Hey guys, I fell in love with & married a Scientologist, but she wants to remain in the church, so I'll just keep protesting against her church with you guys"...

He used to mention it on a.r.s., and on here. I never could understand why he'd get so pissed off at people for practicing Scn outside the cult while saying he was married to a CofS member. And every time I mentioned it, he said he didn't care to discuss it. I'd been seeing him make references to this relationship and the wife's affiliation for years, however vaguely. Eventually I decided it was a fun house mirror situation in that I could not trace it down and it just gave me a headache.

 

[Smurf]

Clarification (I hope): I don't think Joe Lynn's even got a daughter. Not sure how this misinformation got in the mix.

Nope. He has a married son that is/was in the US Army in Germany.

 

[Smurf]

Just so you know, there are MANY people their on "ex-scn message bored" who are listed as members but don't participate and don't agree with the views being expressed on that site.

I believe that many of the other 'members' would also terminate their membership as well if they knew what's been being said in a group that shows them as a member.

deleted

 

[Gib]

Allow me to assist with your catharsis..

[video=youtube;mpjSjvD2gfA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjSjvD2gfA#t=37[/video]

To Joe Lynn: Are you drunk?

JL: Well.. I haven't had my last test yet.. but I don't think I am.

never saw that Video before.

Interesting that Dan is an OT8, couldn't admit it.

And prior Mark Bunker asking him questions, and the comm lag by Dan to answer. And yet his answers were only trying to TR3 Mark and Zinj to leave.

But, from an outsider knowing scientology, and leaving the mindset,

when I viewed that video just now,

it is a few people arguing with no special abilities at either end. You know what I mean.

Or, in others words, just folks arguing.

My conclusion,

scientology is a hellvahoax

all created in the minds of people that they have achieved special powers.

 

[Free Being Me]

I've not mentioned or implied or stated here that I'm a victim or that anyone's doing anything to me or anything of the sort. So that's a non issue.

I know you don't like what I said to Hoaxie. And I know Hoaxie didn't like it either. And that's fine. You can feel the way you feel.

I reposted and quoted what I'd said two days before you did. So I'm obviously fine with what I said and with its being said. If you and HH want to continue to discuss this and say what you guys want to say, then that's your choice.

I'm in no way taking anything personally, Claire. I'm not the one being manipulated although it has been interesting pointing out such activities and now that they have been pointed out, folks can come to their own conclusions without more being said for now.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Originally Posted by Type4_PTS
Just so you know, there are MANY people their on "ex-scn message bored" who are listed as members but don't participate and don't agree with the views being expressed on that site.

I believe that many of the other 'members' would also terminate their membership as well if they knew what's been being said in a group that shows them as a member.

Sorry. Not true.

One is flagged when they are added to a group. The group also shows on the left side of their personal FB page. I'm constantly leaving groups that some critics decided to add me to without asking for my OK first.

You may wish to go back and read everything I said. ALL of it is absolutely true.

What exactly do you believe is not? (you didn't actually respond to what I was saying)

People can be and are added to this group without requesting it and without granting permission.

And unless they read all the threads in the group they're not aware of the views expressed, are they?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: cue Twilight Zone music….

The real problem is that you posted something very personal about which you feel quite sensitive. Posted it here publicly. So I responded. Since I did not credit what you were saying and since I said so, this upset you, because it was a personal situation for you that you felt- and obviously still feel deeply about.

That's what I think is truly going on with this conversation between you and me. And that's it.

This never ends, does it? LOL

I do not feel very deeply or personally or sensitively about any of this at all.

You described me as "paranoid" and a liar. I was neither as I truthfully noted an effort once made by others to get me to back off from criticizing Hubbard and Indies on ESMB. I responded to your insults by calling you on your defamatory & insulting crap and you have been shuckin'-n-jivin' ever since.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuckin'_and_jivin'

 

[Smurf]

Can't beat join 'em. Screw it. I believe, deep down, things happen for a reason. Sometimes the reason is not clear to us. (sometimes it may never be).

Isn't it odd that the whole time Alanzo is here he is trying to bring it up and is not able to clear up anything and now he is gone and its being discussed left right and center?

Joe Lynn posted on his Facebook page that Alanzo pm'd him to call him right away. This was after Emma banned him. Joe posted that that he called Alanzo back & they had a long conversation abour ESMB & shared their personal opines about Emma.

Alanzo is not an innocent victim here. Also, if this thread bothers you, then why do you bother to read it?

 

[Smurf]

How can you tell who is in a group?

Top of group page.. click on Members.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/330979943625378/members/

 

[Smurf]

You may wish to go back and read everything I said. ALL of it is absolutely true.

My mistake. Sorry. You posted.."I believe that many of the other 'members' would also terminate their membership as well if they knew what's been being said in a group that shows them as a member."

"Similar to being tagged in a photo, you can only be added to a group by one of your friends. When a friend adds you to a group, a story in the group—and in News Feed for Open or Closed groups—will indicate that your friend has added you to a group.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Why-cant-I-stop-people-adding-me-to-groups/160298947336003

Obviously, some people don't care if they are added to groups without their OK, nor do they monitor what's being posted in said groups.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Joe Lynn posted on his Facebook page that Alanzo pm'd him to call him right away. This was after Emma banned him. Joe posted that that he called Alanzo back & they had a long conversation abour ESMB & shared their personal opines about Emma.

Alanzo is not an innocent victim here. Also, if this thread bothers you, then why do you bother to read it?

No the thread does not bother me, Smurf.

Are you talking about Alanzos last,most recent ban, or the previous ban?

 

[Panda Termint]

Joe Lynn posted on his Facebook page that Alanzo pm'd him to call him right away. This was after Emma banned him. Joe posted that that he called Alanzo back & they had a long conversation abour ESMB & shared their personal opines about Emma.

Alanzo is not an innocent victim here. Also, if this thread bothers you, then why do you bother to read it?

Smurf, I think Joe might be talking about the previous time Al was banned back in 2011 or whenever it was. Doesn't matter either way.