Too Much Cruelty

[Purple Rain]

This is from yesterday:



I wrote to 'Free Being Me' about the importance of having truly independent thinking people on ESMB, willing to disagree with the "majority." But, in fact, this "majority" is not a majority at all, but is just a small noisy assertive group that has undue influence over ESMB. Undoubtedly this small group thinks it IS ESMB.

It is not.

I am not a member of any "group". Any "group" is in your own mind. I think for myself and post for myself. If you think otherwise you are so wrong. Are you ever going to stop bitching about this board??

 

[Veda]

Yes, basically Veda and Alanzo are pushing the same barrow - that ESMB is cruel because the posters here are cruel. It's just as insulting no matter who spins that line.

I was responding to your misleading accusation, above. I have the right to do so. It is not "bitching." It's called freedom of speech.

ESMB has many members, each one an individual. Neither you nor I, nor any small group, represent them, or can speak for them.

 

[Purple Rain]

I was responding to your misleading accusation, above. I have the right to do so. It is not "bitching." It's called freedom of speech.

ESMB has many members, each one an individual. Neither you nor I, nor any small group, represent them, or can speak for them.

WTF? I'm not speaking for anyone except myself. And yeah, you have freedom of speech. So do I. And yeah, in my opinion, which I am free to express, you are bitching. It is also my opinion that I wish you'd get over it. And that goes double for Alanzo.

 

[Lone Star]

Lurking...lurking....

Trying to determine the best opportunity to make noise and exert undue influence...

 

[JustSheila]

Point 1: I' NOT a counselor. I happen to know some former or current addicts and some people who work in Rehab.

Point 2: Some of my (addicted) friends died.

I've lost three close childhood friends in the last ten years who had drug addictions to suicide.
#1 was too ashamed to admit the addiction, especially to his pretentious, snarky (drug-free) wife, got himself in a deep hole and saw no other way out so blew his head off. He hit bottom alright - but if he'd had a drug-free friend to trust and called that person instead of another drug addict, that tragedy would probably have been prevented. I knew him very well so feel qualified to say that. It was a great loss.

#2 fits your scenario - went from one cooshy co-dependent relationship to another, always avoiding giving it up, nobody ever used tough love.

#3 got into drugs & alcohol through his wife - was clean before then. She was a cold, nasty thing who left him for his brother. He shot himself over that. One-on-one counselling may have saved him.

A fourth friend has quietly and successfully weened herself from an addiction.

A fifth person I know had successfully checked himself into rehab and overcame a heroin addiction, cold-turkey, without methadone. He is part of the tiny 1% who successfully come off heroin and has been clean for over 30 years. Love of his family was his motivation.

Additionally, I've personally successfully helped over a dozen people off alcohol or other addictions, not as a formal counsellor but just because I cared. I may not be an expert, but I know one thing - people are different and whatever you do has to be stronger and make them personally stronger than the pull of the addiction. I agree in part with what you say - but I disagree that it's some general rule of healing that applies to everyone, regardless of whatever problem they have.

Yaddayaddayadda. I NEVER said he was an addict, I just compared him to one. See the difference?

Semantics. You were talking about Alanzo and drug and other addictions and stating that the harsh methods would cure him. That's really walking the line.

Not my experience. Usually, when I'm having conversations with approximately sane people, all I need to do is ask them for clarification or remind them of where the focus of the discussion is. That's all it usually takes to have a fruitful discussion.

You may find your loved ones disagree that you are as open and rational and logical about your upsets as you believe you are. At any rate, it's not just my opinion, it's a fact. Men generally have more difficulty than women expressing their emotions. The side of the brain that handles emotions is opposite the side that handles logic and they compete for dominance. When a person is over-emotional, rationality becomes limited. When a person is extremely logical, they can also lose the emotional touch.

Not so with Alanzo. No chance to get an addressable point out of him. Many have tried, none have succeeded. ... Either people make their fuckin' point in a way that other people have at least a chance to understand it and reply to it if they want to, or they should just STFU, GTFO and GDIAF.

This shit turns this board into a monstrous garbage pile and it's quite annoying. I'm surprised and irritated that you support it..

I didn't support it. I supported Emma's decision - repeatedly. I even said something similar to this to Alanzo on one of his threads. He had a go at me, too, if you remember. Alanzo acted badly here when he returned. I agree with what you say here about that.

My point to you is only that it's way out of line for any of us to accuse another of crimes, mental illness, etc. without proof just because the person annoys us. It's defamation on a public forum, and that's unfair.

My point to the Board is that witchhunts really suck and have done nothing but harm ESMB.

K?

 

[Panda Termint]

Lurking...lurking....

Trying to determine the best opportunity to make noise and exert undue influence...

There will be an Emergency Strategy Meeting of The Nefarious Marcabian Cabal at 0100 hours (Eastern Australian Time, naturally) this AM. Attendance is mandatory, failure to comply will not be tolerated and will incur serious penalties, not the least of which will include being required to continue to posting on this thread!

 

[Lone Star]

There will be an Emergency Strategy Meeting of The Nefarious Marcabian Cabal at 0100 hours (Eastern Australian Time, naturally). Attendance is mandatory, failure to comply will not be tolerated and will incur serious penalties, not the least of which will include being required to continue to posting on this thread!

I was about to make an announcement for a Cabal strategy conference call too. Lol....

In the meantime caballers....swarm, swarm, swarm!!!

 

[Emma]

Cabal membership fees are also due. Just sayin.

 

[AnonKat]

 

[Winston Smith]

Note to self: I am not here. But I will post in absentia. So here is my post. I have not read Mr Nobody's posts about drugs, but one thing does occur to me. Mr Nobody, you do not have to be right all the time. I know you are a guitarist and probably a very good one. I am a cellist, and sometimes I am good. But I have never needed to be good (right) all the time.

I know the last three sentences are not perhaps germaine.

There is a point to them though. I am in the last third of my life, and something happened in the past twenty years with me. I no longer need or even pretend to be right. (That would be why I don't worry about how I play.) And for sure I don't think I know enough to pretend to be right about anything any more. Maybe sometimes I swerve into a good thought or opinion, but I don't spout stuff with the intention of being right.

Not trying to be harsh here. Just a crazy old man (some would say dirty, with a harem) saying that hey, relax.

 

[Purple Rain]

I was about to make an announcement for a Cabal strategy conference call too. Lol....

In the meantime caballers....swarm, swarm, swarm!!!

I would like to raise the point that we have not been cruel and nefarious enough by half. Do we want people thinking ESMB is all fluffy kittens and cake? Do we want people thinking we're losing our edge? Can we please add this item to the agenda before the emergency meeting?

 

[Purple Rain]

I was about to make an announcement for a Cabal strategy conference call too. Lol....

In the meantime caballers....swarm, swarm, swarm!!!

Lol!

 

[freethinker]

If I left and came back in 6 months, would this thread still be going?

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

snip... I no longer need or even pretend to be right. (That would be why I don't worry about how I play.) And for sure I don't think I know enough to pretend to be right about anything any more.
snip

The only time I was wrong was when I said I'm not always right.

Wait. That means I was right.

But then that makes me wrong.

Which would make me right.

But then I'd be wrong.

But then..........

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The_Fixer]

I'd like to indicate that I'm not jumping in.

Bloody glad to hear it!

You might have landed on my hedgehog.

 

[He-man]

If I left and came back in 6 months, would this thread still be going?

If not, there will be a new mega thread with Kittens, the nefarious Cabal(I've completely missed where this comes from but it seems like Panda is in the midst of it), hooters, cruelty, butt hurt feelings, sad posters, happy posters, Lolladins, haters, midwifes, dogs and Tim Burton.

I recommend the double dose dipper, read it from the beginning to the end at least twice a day.

I just though of something.

Is Emma cruel?

No.

But if she locked the thread, think of all the emotional drama that would play out in peoples heads, now when there will be no more posting on this thread. It would be unimaginable cruel! Imagine the feelings of hurt! The pain! the DRAMA!!!!

I get so excited just thinking of this... that... I....

Here's a kitteh!

 

[The_Fixer]

This is from yesterday:



I wrote to 'Free Being Me' about the importance of having truly independent thinking people on ESMB, willing to disagree with the "majority." But, in fact, this "majority" is not a majority at all, but is just a small noisy assertive group that has undue influence over ESMB. Undoubtedly this small group thinks it IS ESMB.

It is not.

How? Everyone who is a member here is free to post their opinion.

Even in the outside world, there are some who are more vocal than others. It's just a fact of life.

I think this thread should stay open. It should keep a good deal of the discussion from spreading out all over the board.

It will wind itself down in due course as they all do.

 

[MostlyLurker]

Did anyone not answer a question that Alanzo asked? I don't recall that.

I do recall asking Alanzo in a post WHO EXACTLY IS CRUEL? which he chose to not answer. That seemed rather odd since he was the one that started the "TOO MUCH CRUELTY" thread. See my point?

If you go back and read what was said about Alanzo 3 years ago just after his ban you would know who was cruel. Very nasty things were said about him (on his back-as he couldn't read them by being banned), things that should have been moderated by board rules and were not. I remember I was disgusted and shocked because I thought I was among friends on ESMB. (I still think I am among friends, but certain friends can't be trusted).

Veda, Alanzo came into our community and kept - in a really passive aggressive way actually - subtly insinuating that it was this horrible cruel place and we were these horrible cruel people. That's what got up people's wick, and because he was still angry about three years ago he just couldn't help himself. Because that's what he truly believes. He can't see the good and the fun and the value other people see. He can only see his own hurt. Nothing can help that.

"This place used to be so good", "This place used to be a soft landing", basically "I hate what you've done with the place while I've been gone".

That's not what Alanzo said or intended. I wished Alanzo was more open and clear in what upset him, pointing out exactly the posts. He was not still angry when he come back, but when he come back he had the possibility to see the nasty things that were said about him after his ban. Things that we put in our past but he just found out. Grudge matches section cannot be read by non members.

Yes, basically Veda and Alanzo are pushing the same barrow - that ESMB is cruel because the posters here are cruel. It's just as insulting no matter who spins that line.

Veda never said ESMB is cruel. You are putting this in his mouth to make him look bad. There has been no cruelty on ESMB? Really? I think there has been, not by many people, just a few, but there has been. And Alanzo has been the target of it at a certain point.

I had this disagreement with Emma on Alanzo, that he shouldn't have been banned, I wrote her many times (first ban), she always answered me nicely although keeping her position. Despite the disagreement, on my side and I think on her side too, we remained friends. I have a lot of admiration for her for taking care of the board even if I dared to click "disagree" on a couple of her posts. To criticize the behavior of some of the members or even the admin is not to generalize and say all is bad. An admin should know it. If I would be an admin I would prefer people who are honest than those who lick my ass. Unless I would be so insecure to ask for agreement. As far as I am concerned we are not in a war, and when someone voice disagreement his viewpoint should be evaluated.

 

[Purple Rain]

----> snip

That's not what Alanzo said or intended. I wished Alanzo was more open and clear in what upset him, pointing out exactly the posts. He was not still angry when he come back, but when he come back he had the possibility to see the nasty things that were said about him after his ban. Things that we put in our past but he just found out. Grudge matches section cannot be read by non members.

Bullcrap! That is EXACTLY what Alanzo said and intended. See below.

---->snip

My Too Much Cruelty points exist within this context - the context of the Internet, of ESMB, and of the way things are changing in the fight against Scientology right now.

Maybe I am saying that being kind is expedient for me now, where before I thought it wasn't.

Or maybe I think that I can reach my "personal best" faster and easier by being kind now, where before I believed I couldn't.

Or maybe I'm growing up and getting sick of the suffering I cause to myself and to others by being cruel.

Or maybe I'm trying to change the behavior of others so they won't be cruel to me personally any more because I don't like it when they are.

Or maybe I personally like it when people are kind to me rather than cruel, and I figure that if I can be more kind than cruel, I will get more people treating me kinder.

Maybe I'm trying to be one less cruel person on a message board with too much cruelty so that the effectiveness of ESMB can be even better.

Maybe it's some of all these things.

Anyway.

I'm going to try to change.

I'm going to try to be less cruel and more kind.

Alanzo

I'm so sick of hearing these falsehoods. He said it in many ways many times. Is that clear enough for you? Have you even been following these threads since he came back at all??

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

If you go back and read what was said about Alanzo 3 years ago just after his ban you would know who was cruel. Very nasty things were said about him (on his back-as he couldn't read them by being banned), things that should have been moderated by board rules and were not. I remember I was disgusted and shocked because I thought I was among friends on ESMB. (I still think I am among friends, but certain friends can't be trusted).


That's not what Alanzo said or intended. I wished Alanzo was more open and clear in what upset him, pointing out exactly the posts. He was not still angry when he come back, but when he come back he had the possibility to see the nasty things that were said about him after his ban. Things that we put in our past but he just found out. Grudge matches section cannot be read by non members.



Veda never said ESMB is cruel. You are putting this in his mouth to make him look bad. There has been no cruelty on ESMB? Really? I think there has been, not by many people, just a few, but there has been. And Alanzo has been the target of it at a certain point.

I had this disagreement with Emma on Alanzo, that he shouldn't have been banned, I wrote her many times (first ban), she always answered me nicely although keeping her position. Despite the disagreement, on my side and I think on her side too, we remained friends. I have a lot of admiration for her for taking care of the board even if I dared to click "disagree" on a couple of her posts. To criticize the behavior of some of the members or even the admin is not to generalize and say all is bad. An admin should know it. If I would be an admin I would prefer people who are honest than those who lick my ass. Unless I would be so insecure to ask for agreement. As far as I am concerned we are not in a war, and when someone voice disagreement his viewpoint should be evaluated.

I suppose I could look back at post about me from three years ago and find some people who said cruel things to me too.

But if I was gone for a while, and then came back, and I felt the board was still cruel and I wanted to change that, then I wouldn't start by calling the board (a general term which means the posters here) cruel.

I would use my posts to lessen the cruelty.

Whenever I go overboard on this board, I get some very kind nudges from people, either in posts or in private messages, telling me I am going overboard.

Couldn't Alanzo have done that?

Couldn't he have sent private messages to the people who he felt had treated him cruelly?

Couldn't he have led by example instead of inflaming things with broad accusations?

Personally I think Alanzo is quite smart and capable and that he is not a victim of the board at all.

I think Alanzo had a beef, which is cool, but his plan of action to handle it was a mistake.

He took a calculated risk and failed.

I don't think he is hurting or upset.

I think he has simply moved on because he is simply not interested in this board anymore.

The mistake is to dwell on his accusations.

But if you think the board is cruel or that certain particular posters are cruel then discuss it with them privately.

That is what some of the posters on this board do, and that is the farthest thing from being cruel.

I feel privileged to have such friends.

The Anabaptist Jacques