trepidatious

exsomessenger

Patron Meritorious
First and foremost, Scientology was a marketing effort.

I remember once discussing what the next "released" level should deal with. Hubbard said go out and do a survey as to what people's wants were, what was the ruin, most pressing on their minds? Whatever that was is what the next level's result would be. And just tell them, he explained, through his marketing genius, if they pc didn't achieve that result, advise the staff to tell them that the next level would achieve that result.

I left when I realized that even Hubbard himself was a far cry from any of the results promised through clearing and OT. It took me years to separate the promises from the reality. I saw him in his daily activities, through his own ups and downs, illnesses, losses, frustrations, rages. I twisted my mind trying to make the facts fit into the promises. It didn't work.

NED was developed becasue Dianetics didn't work. NOTS was developed because NED didn't work.

None of it worked. Not one bit. Not on him. Not on others. Sure, it made some people feel good for a while. But did any of the avowed results ever come to fruition? Of course not.

YES, I get exactly what you are saying. I felt the twisting and turning to try and make things fit into what I was told was the TRUTH. Being a messenger was a little more of the mind fuck as you were an em·is·sar·y of the commodore.

I can say for me I was extra scared to start telling my story out of fear of the church but (not trying to make myself special) because I was a messenger and was charged with the responibility of acting like a little commodore. Being a 2nd gen did not help either.

good on ya Cowboy for just comming out and talking :thumbsup:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome, Cowboy. :yes:

So glad you are here with all of Us. :coolwink:

Looks like we were shipmates on the Apollo. There's some other former Apollo Crew here, too.

Were you aboard when HRH came to visit? Love to hear your take on that.:yes:


Face:)
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Many years ago, within the structure of the C of S, Flag was paramount. But removed and cloaked in secrecy was the special unit, hidden in various places, primarily southern Calif. However, removed and hidden from those at the special unit was a series of smaller bases, where Hubbard worked with a trusted few. Many of their names are known. Some are not.

I spent thousands of hours over many years in daily contact with the man. I experienced first hand more than most could even imagine.

Only the very tip of the iceberg is talked about here.

Few can truly understand what went on in the final days.

I'm still uncertain if I want to even discuss it.

There are those of you - far & few between - that know the facts whereas so so many of us were fed 'stories' along the way as we giddlily worked our way up the bridge... and worshipping from afar.

Those like you can help so much with the truth. What was really happening as bright young people became bilge rats on the Apollo & us almost hippies flocked into the orgs plunking down our earned, borrowed or inherited cash for services.

I have questions... still. Did the "teck" really work in that some people shot up into OT but the strictures of standard teck ( one size fits all ) then invalidate rather than enhance those gains that seemed oh so fleeting and highly unstable.

One day most any postulate worked & the next day car keys were lost forever ?

I digress. Yes, I'd like to know where Ron was. What was Ron was doing.
How come this & how come that.

Others have shed some light on their face to face time with Ron & direct observations of what he was going.

To me - and hopefully many many others - every piece of the puzzle that gets provided helps the path each of chose to take become better understandable.

So many things came down from above, we bought, we never knew what was really behind it all.

Help us understand how we managed to follow & strenghten L Ron Hubbard & the Co$.

Toady
 
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cowboy

Patron with Honors
A recurring question that I see is why Hubbard allowed his books to remain as-is for 25 years or so when full of typos. My assumption is that he didn't give a rat's ass. Did he ever comment on that to you? (Not that he always told the truth!)

What I would find most interesting, would be any commentary on Robert Vaughn-Young's article on Hubbard being murdered. I don't expect any revelations from you, but I can ask. :)

Paul
Paul, hate to be boring, but the old man had no comment or upset or concern over perceived errors in his prior books. That concern only developed after his death. He did, however, occassionally have concerns over policy letters or bulletins that might have been issued erroneously.

One example; (forgive the semicolon) A bulletin was submitted for authorization, to be published in his name. Such submissions generally had skeletal structures of previous writings and expansion of concepts encompassing new "technology". In this submission, the old man found evidence of "squirreling". Upon investigation of the part of the new bulletin to which he objected, it was discovered that the part in question was a direct quote from an earlier bulletin, issued in Hubbard's name.

I was sent back to Flag to find the original bulletin, which had the "squirelled" section that was being quoted in the new bulletin. Find the squirrel who wrote the earlier bulletin in Hubbard's name, I was instructed, declare them and ship them out.

Unbelievably, deep in mimeo files of Flag, I found the original bulletin, containing the text which Hubbard said was the work of a squirrel.

The original bulletin was written by hand, and it was easy to recognize the flourishes of his handwriting. He'd written the bulletin a decade earlier, which contained the passages which he'd explained were the work of a rampant sp squirrel.

When I returned he asked if the squirrel had been declared and kicked out.

I studied his face, the thought fleetingly passing through my mind that maybe I should tell him it was he himself who'd written the passages which he now so venomously condemned.

But I didn't. I assured him the matter had been taken care of.

I have only rumors from reliable sources on his death, but nothing which I can repeat with any certainty.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
This is going to be either the Greatest Story Ever Told or boy, have we been had!

:biggrin: :yes:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I have only rumors from reliable sources on his death, but nothing which I can repeat with any certainty.

OK. How about that final "Loyal Officer Flag Order," that got cancelled by DM a couple of years later. Any comments on that?

Paul
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Yes. What happened between David Mayo and Hubbard?


Good lord, what a loaded question. I would, respectfully, ask that you be more specific and name the year. Their relationship was long and complex, with ups and down and turns and twists. So one cannot take a slice of time and necessarily say that was representative of the relationship as a whole.

Let me explain a couple facts of life near Hubbard;

1. Jealousies were always present, with subtle and sometimes not so subtle attempts at achieving power by those who worked with the old man. If one person became more greatly trusted, it would often create bad will among others. Such trust would be undermined by those with jealousies.

2. Everything Hubbard was aware of for many years was heavily censored. One couldn't give him bad news, or complete news. He made erroneous judgements based upon this.

I bring up these two facts as they played heavily in the Mayo/Hubbard relationship.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Look, cowboy, if you ever saw the X-Files, I'm like agent Fox Mulder - I WANT TO BELIEVE!

Help me and others put this saga of mans' history to rest - set us free with the TRUTH!

Unlike Tom Cruise, we can handle it!
 

Gadfly

Crusader
First and foremost, Scientology was a marketing effort.

I remember once discussing what the next "released" level should deal with. Hubbard said go out and do a survey as to what people's wants were, what was the ruin, most pressing on their minds? Whatever that was is what the next level's result would be. And just tell them, he explained, through his marketing genius, if they pc didn't achieve that result, advise the staff to tell them that the next level would achieve that result.

I left when I realized that even Hubbard himself was a far cry from any of the results promised through clearing and OT. It took me years to separate the promises from the reality. I saw him in his daily activities, through his own ups and downs, illnesses, losses, frustrations, rages. I twisted my mind trying to make the facts fit into the promises. It didn't work.

NED was developed becasue Dianetics didn't work. NOTS was developed because NED didn't work.

None of it worked. Not one bit. Not on him. Not on others. Sure, it made some people feel good for a while. But did any of the avowed results ever come to fruition? Of course not.

This is such a great post! :thumbsup:

I read the PR Series a few times and it was obvious to me that there was NEVER any concern for "truth". Like you say, Hubbard would find out WHAT PEOPLE WANTED - just as is done with a listing question (discover what the PC's item is) - and then he would TELL THEM that Scientology could GIVE THEM THAT.

The Ruin-Finding Drill is THAT in a nutshell.

The reg sits the prospect down, and with two-way communication, finds what is really bothering or "ruining" the person. Everybody has something, especially when they are younger, so a good reg can find it. Then the reg really smashes your face into this ruin, and asks you, "what would happen if THAT got worse"? Their aim is to get you wallowing in the hopelessness of this ruin or troubling area.

Then the reg looks at you, and with well-practiced Tone 40 and feigned affinity says, "Scientology can handle THAT"! :happydance:

Of course, the registrar has no idea whether Scientology can actually handle that (and probably it can't), BUT the reg learns the drill and the patter, and MANIPULATES PEOPLE into accepting and believing that Scientology will address and handle THAT.

It is ALL PR. It is about finding out what a person wants and desires. It aims at discovering what any person needs. And then, TELLING THEM WITH TOTAL CERTAINTY THAT Scientology can handle that! Of course, that is a lie, but some people fall for the mocked-up "certainty".

That is why surveys (in the PR & Marketing Series) were so key to Hubbard & Scientology.

It is all deceit and trickery.

I was put on a reg post for awhile. I learned all of this crap, but I could never do it comfortably. I felt like I was deceiving and tricking people. I got yelled at, and so forth, and eventually was taken off the post. My stats sucked! :thumbsup:

I wanted to appeal to people's understanding, but boy would I get blasted when I said that. I was shown a few references from a tape where Hubbard says that people are "dramatizing circuits", that they have "no rights", and that they needed to be controlled and 8C'ed onto the srevice they need, because in their sorry banky low-toned state they were unable to make a sane responsible decision about anything.

:omg: :omg: :ohmy: :ohmy:

Manipulation Tech 101:

1. Find out what a person (or many people) REALLY needs and wants (Non-Existence Formula)

2. Convince them that YOU can provide it for them (even if you really can't).

3. Get them BELIEVING in the promise that you can give them what they want.

4. Hook them with their own HOPE that you hold the key to their dreams and salvation.


Like I quote below from Hoffer, "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagent hope".
 
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cowboy

Patron with Honors
Welcome, Cowboy. :yes:

So glad you are here with all of Us. :coolwink:

Looks like we were shipmates on the Apollo. There's some other former Apollo Crew here, too.

Were you aboard when HRH came to visit? Love to hear your take on that.:yes:

Face:)
Yes, I met HRH and chatted briefly with him. He seemed cowed by the whole "Flag" deal as he hobbled around the upper decks. I would have liked to have had a more meaningful discourse with him..... like what did he think of his son.... but I didn't. And Hubbard never spoke of his father when I was with him. Of course, remember, I was only a child then.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Look, cowboy, if you ever saw the X-Files, I'm like agent Fox Mulder - I WANT TO BELIEVE!

Help me and others put this saga of mans' history to rest - set us free with the TRUTH!

Unlike Tom Cruise, we can handle it!

What would you like to know? I can give specifics, but I think most here know the truth.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Good lord, what a loaded question. I would, respectfully, ask that you be more specific and name the year. Their relationship was long and complex, with ups and down and turns and twists. So one cannot take a slice of time and necessarily say that was representative of the relationship as a whole.

Let me explain a couple facts of life near Hubbard;

1. Jealousies were always present, with subtle and sometimes not so subtle attempts at achieving power by those who worked with the old man. If one person became more greatly trusted, it would often create bad will among others. Such trust would be undermined by those with jealousies.

2. Everything Hubbard was aware of for many years was heavily censored. One couldn't give him bad news, or complete news. He made erroneous judgements based upon this.

I bring up these two facts as they played heavily in the Mayo/Hubbard relationship.

Thank you and please don't be put off by any wildness I post. You are potentially the icing on a cake long in the making for us here at ESMB.

Specific: Did Mayo save LRH life with auditing; Did LRH make Mayo Snr C/S Int?
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
OK. How about that final "Loyal Officer Flag Order," that got cancelled by DM a couple of years later. Any comments on that?

Paul

Wow..... I believe you and everyone here has accurately guessed why that came to pass. Sorry for being nebulous. But isn't it obvious?
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Were you on Flag when Harriet Ingraham came to visit LRH in 1974/75? (that may be too young for you)

Did Hubbard never suspect that Miscavige lied to him about Mayo to discredit him and get him off the line?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Wow..... I believe you and everyone here has accurately guessed why that came to pass. Sorry for being nebulous. But isn't it obvious?

For years I assumed that Broeker forged it. But I read something (forget where) relatively recently causing me to think that Hubbard had perhaps really written it.

Paul
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
The whole business of the death of Quentin has never made much sense to me.

The plates were off the car but near it.

The car was registered to the Co$ at flag ( where, of course, Q was last on post )

Supposedly his hair was found on a runner in the trunk of the car.

He was in a coma for almost 2 weeks.

Allegedly dies after 2 scientologists ( GO ?) left & his life support system was turned off.

To me, the corker of oddest ( if true ) was he died one day & LRH was informed the next day.

One of his children in the hospital in a coma & scientologists in attendance - and Ron NOT know anything about it ?

Can you shed any light on this episode ?

Or, have I bought into stories not true ?
 
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