Veda
Sponsor
Are you serious?
trepidatious
- Thread starter cowboy
- Start date
Are you serious?
Purple Rain
Crusader
If engrams are priceless imagine what BTs & Clusters are worth !
I also love how you are supposed to just accept that engrams exist.
Why?
Because Hubbard said - with no actual evidence or scientific knowledge of the human mind whatsoever.
My partner laughed and laughed watching Miscavige explain to Ted Koppel how the mind was made up of "pictures". He could barely stay in his chair. "No, it isn't!" he guffawed.
Bryan Seymour rightly challenged Tommy Davis on the science of claiming that a thought has a weight or a mass to it.
"Thought has a weight or a mass to it? That's a theory, though, isn't it? That's a belief. But that hasn't been proven in science, has it? Thought doesn't have a weight and mass in science."
Tommy Davis replied, "This is a religion."
Purple Rain
Crusader
PURPLE RAIN ~ It's a work in progress..
AUDITOR'S TOAD: I gotta admit.. that was very funny
Great not answering of the question. You are entitled to your opinions, but if you make claims then expect to be able to justify them. You have not named for me a single ability or power that is worth spending trillions of dollars for.
Do you want to know what I would spend a hundred thousand dollars for? Healing the sick, like my daughter with Rett Syndrome. I suspect, however, that the money would be more productively spent as a donation to the researchers than an organisation established by a convicted conman.
I would also like to fly. I'd pay heaps for that. Raise the dead, yes, that would be cool. There are all sorts of things that if anyone could be bothered to prove they could do I would give everything for.
But the Randi foundation still have their million dollars reward sitting there because either people can't perform paranormal feats or are not willing to subject their knowledge to scientific scrutiny to benefit the rest of mankind. I am betting on the former. They can't do shit.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
nobody's gonna take some mangy smelly crazy old hippie seriously veda
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
ironic that CoS spokespeople have often said "scientology is not a turn the other cheek religion" but bullbait is such an excellent exercise for a christian to learn exactly that
Purple Rain
Crusader
I've never seen a Scientologist learn to turn the other cheek from that exercise, so doubt it would work for a Christian.
Veda
Sponsor
That's not an answer.
These bizarre letters reveal much about Hubbard's mental state between 1951 and 1955.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Krautfag
Patron Meritorious
Implying that any CoS spokesperson ever said anything that wasn't twisted in any way the actual situation demanded.
And for the average clam not to turn the other cheek means ethics and sec checks, so don't even go there, man.
Not that I said anything about turning cheeks in my previous posting in the first place.
Veda
Sponsor
So, you believe that Hubbard "had some support in powerful places. Almost certainly in ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] but his work has had some very serious silent respect in high places from the early fifties forward," when he wrote the following letters:
Below is a sampling of some pages from the many pages of letters sent by L. Ron Hubbard to the FBI during the 1950s. I've seen the photocopies of these letters, and the 2nd and 3rd pages down are missing a paragraph and two lines which were, for some reason, not scanned. I have filled in the missing paragraph and two lines.
The content of these letters ranges from attempts to identify people as Comminists, to "explanations" for various things, and an apparent attempt to persuade the FBI to persuade the IRS to not investigate Hubbard and his finances lest Hubbard accept a Soviet offer to fly to Russia and work "for very high fees," etc., to just plain bizarre ramblings.
The letters in their entirety can be accessed if one is curious, but these pages happen to be handy on the Net.
"In the greatest spirit of friendship and camaraderie it seem that I can go to Russia as an advisor or a consultant and have my own laboratories and receive very high fees. And it's all so easy because it's already been ascertained that I could get my passport extended for Russia and all I had to do was go to Paris and there a Russian plane would pick me up and that would be that.
"Indeed that would be that.
"I suppose when the Russian-inclined 'friend' finds that...
A page from another letter of the time period:
And a little more:
These are some of the letters that earned Hubbard the "appears mental" designation.
Okay.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
infer as you will
this is a direct statement. i stand by it as stated. no more. no less.
and you spoke of TR's. the post is sequitur. i introduced the allusion to scripture
Gib
Crusader
So I got the 40 hours of Dianetics auditing. During that time of getting auditing, I would just walk in for the scheduled session, do the session and just leave, nobody stopped me or regged me (but I did not know that term back then in 1986). But one day, my contact, who was overseeing me, one day said I should read this book. I said what is it? She replied just buy it and read it, it's Scientology. I think it was POW or NSOL. I refused to buy it as the person said it's Scientology, I said I want nothing to do with that, I want to go Clear (see, I read DMSMH and wanted to go Clear, and handle any aberrations I might have influencing me). The person got me to buy it, and I read it. I was blown away, I thought it was cool.
Then at the end of my last auditing session, why the person handling me, asked me what is ruining my life?
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
So, you believe that Hubbard "had some support in powerful places. Almost certainly in ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] but his work has had some very serious silent respect in high places from the early fifties forward," when he wrote the following letters:
Below is a sampling of some pages from the many pages of letters sent by L. Ron Hubbard to the FBI during the 1950s. I've seen the photocopies of these letters, and the 2nd and 3rd pages down are missing a paragraph and two lines which were, for some reason, not scanned. I have filled in the missing paragraph and two lines.
The content of these letters ranges from attempts to identify people as Comminists, to "explanations" for various things, and an apparent attempt to persuade the FBI to persuade the IRS to not investigate Hubbard and his finances lest Hubbard accept a Soviet offer to fly to Russia and work "for very high fees," etc., to just plain bizarre ramblings.
The letters in their entirety can be accessed if one is curious, but these pages happen to be handy on the Net.
"In the greatest spirit of friendship and camaraderie it seem that I can go to Russia as an advisor or a consultant and have my own laboratories and receive very high fees. And it's all so easy because it's already been ascertained that I could get my passport extended for Russia and all I had to do was go to Paris and there a Russian plane would pick me up and that would be that.
"Indeed that would be that.
"I suppose when the Russian-inclined 'friend' finds that...
A page from another letter of the time period:
And a little more:
These are some of the letters that earned Hubbard the "appears mental" designation.
Okay.
yes and i am well familiar with them
Veda
Sponsor
Do you believe that Hubbard was invited by the Russians to go to Russia and receive very high fees, and have his own laboratory?
Purple Rain
Crusader
Lol, he wouldn't even know what to do with a laboratory.
Gib
Crusader
I think you are wrong there Purple Rain. He knew exactly what to do with a lab. Why he created the sea org, and then he created the "children of the corn". Command Intention on his laboratory rats so as to then write policy letters on his experiment. And even hidden "advices" or PL's to the secret GO.
Veda
Sponsor
Part of a letter from September 1955. Note the reference to LSD.
A few weeks later in September 1955, Hubbard also told Scientologists about the covert use of LSD - the "insanity drug" - to undermine and discredit Scientology. Note the duplicity.
From the 'Professional Auditors Bulletin' of 30 September 1955:
" I could tell you about long strings of psychotics run in on the Foundation and the Association, sent in to us by psychiatrists who then, using LSD and pain-drug-hypnosis, spun them and told everyone that Dianetics and Scientology drove people insane. I could tell you about the strange politics and ambitions of psychiatry, so well covered in the book Psychopolitics [Hubbard's hoax 'Russian textbook on Pyscho-Politics', which he had just secretly authored and was soon to be published], and give you a proper riddle as to why we, a small group, the only ANGLO-SAXON DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF THE MIND AND SPIRIT [sic], have been subjected to so much attack and finance... But I am not telling you stories or being dramatic. I am inviting your cooperation in your own future security..."
As for dealing with those whose behavior became erratic or an embarrassment after Scientology processing, Hubbard wrote, in the same 'PAB':
"You'll find the family physician or psychiatrist was called in midway in processing... You'll find there is a vested interest somewhere in the insanity of the person. An so testify that you suspect it. We will have on hand lots of literature on LSD..."
Sixteen years later, Hubbard would write a similar statement, although this one doesn't mention LSD and is more to the point. It has the simple title 'Confidential', and is dated 29 June 1971:
"Policy is that we assign any case or upset in Scientology to past damage and interference with the person by medicine or psychiatry. They were sent into us after medicine or psychiatry had already destroyed them. We cannot be blamed for psychiatric or medical failures."
A few weeks later in September 1955, Hubbard also told Scientologists about the covert use of LSD - the "insanity drug" - to undermine and discredit Scientology. Note the duplicity.
From the 'Professional Auditors Bulletin' of 30 September 1955:
" I could tell you about long strings of psychotics run in on the Foundation and the Association, sent in to us by psychiatrists who then, using LSD and pain-drug-hypnosis, spun them and told everyone that Dianetics and Scientology drove people insane. I could tell you about the strange politics and ambitions of psychiatry, so well covered in the book Psychopolitics [Hubbard's hoax 'Russian textbook on Pyscho-Politics', which he had just secretly authored and was soon to be published], and give you a proper riddle as to why we, a small group, the only ANGLO-SAXON DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF THE MIND AND SPIRIT [sic], have been subjected to so much attack and finance... But I am not telling you stories or being dramatic. I am inviting your cooperation in your own future security..."
As for dealing with those whose behavior became erratic or an embarrassment after Scientology processing, Hubbard wrote, in the same 'PAB':
"You'll find the family physician or psychiatrist was called in midway in processing... You'll find there is a vested interest somewhere in the insanity of the person. An so testify that you suspect it. We will have on hand lots of literature on LSD..."
Sixteen years later, Hubbard would write a similar statement, although this one doesn't mention LSD and is more to the point. It has the simple title 'Confidential', and is dated 29 June 1971:
"Policy is that we assign any case or upset in Scientology to past damage and interference with the person by medicine or psychiatry. They were sent into us after medicine or psychiatry had already destroyed them. We cannot be blamed for psychiatric or medical failures."
Idle Morgue
Gold Meritorious Patron
A year ago a REGISTRAR asked me "what is ruining your life". I thought about it for a minute and told him "Scientology" ... "Scientology is ruining my life." "I have witnessed CRUSH REGGING breaking parishoner's - bankruptcy and foreclosures are standard operating procedure - I witnessed extortion and disconnection and bribery."
He said "I got it" and walked away.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
This thread is veering left and right, it jumped the tracks some time back. Just a brief comment on the allegory business; I don't buy it.
Scientology is a deadly serious business and amongst its Lesser Authorities (ie anyone below Hubbard and, by default, DM) it is mandatory that each person studying it believes and agrees with anything stated as "fact" by the Higher Authority.
(The evidence for this is everywhere you look but no more apparent than with the Stellar Expansion myth.)
The only safe course for a Doubter in scientology is to keep any Doubts and/or Disagreements to themselves. That's why Hubbard (or whoever) invented the Disagreement Check and that's why almost EVERY scientologist will answer up on multiple items on that list.
In my experience, many scientologists do, in fact, lose their ability/willingness to Disagree as they progress in scientology but a surprising number simply learn to keep their own counsel on these things and work out mental contortions which allow them to continue moving forward. When they finally leave scientology these Disagreements often come flooding out in a cathartic rush as evidenced here on ESMB and elsewhere.
Sharone Stainforth
Silver Meritorious Patron
The Sea Org on the Apollo was his laboratory.
Didn't he do well!
Didn't he do well!
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