trepidatious

Dilpickle

Patron with Honors
Hmm.. I can't remember now what got me started posting on this Thread :) Beats me LOL
What Thread would you suggest? Yes, I am NEW here :)) Thanks, Dilpickle
 

Dilpickle

Patron with Honors
Hi Tory/Magoo :) Very nice to meet you too - I'm not sure if you have me confused with someone else though, as I am having a bit of a problem understanding what you are saying LOL We are not too far from Los Angeles.. and I would love to eventually meet you... however, at the moment, I am still remaining New and Igcognito :)) Thanks for the nice welcome! Dilpickle
 

R6Basic

Patron Meritorious
Talking about "what works in Scn." always makes me think of this.

If you throw enough feces on the wall, some will stick.
But in the end the only thing you have is a wall full of feces.


:shithitfan:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Talking about "what works in Scn." always makes me think of this.

If you throw enough feces on the wall, some will stick.
But in the end the only thing you have is a wall full of feces.


:shithitfan:


Possibly a new OT Level.

The Wall Of Feces.

They don't even have to build a new SuperFeces building because they already have a 75M year inventory of bullshit.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
... and lots of little shite shoveler's willing to keep on spreading it about.


man_digging1.gif
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

I think it takes a long time for ex-churchies and ex-Scientologists to sum up and then evaluate the return on their Scientology sunk costs.

When you have ...

  • Invested 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 or more years studying and living as a Scientologist,
  • Spent a significant amount of money on auditing and training services,
  • Invited input and submitted to approvals from Scientology powers-that-be regarding your major life decisions like marriage, divorce, family planning, the education of your children, financial investments, retirement planning,
  • Recruited, persuaded and perhaps bullied family members, friends and business associates to join you in your Scientology pursuits,
  • Made decisions and endorsed others' decisions that you knew in your heart were "just not right,"
... it's hard to calculate and then admit to yourself the sum of those costs.

The total costs of being a practicing Scientologist -- expressed in terms of money, relationships, health, career and professional advancement, personal freedoms, or even life's simplest and most precious pleasures and rewards -- may be staggering.

Considering seriously that one's benefits from Scientology were not worth the total costs can be very hard to confront. For long-time practitioners, confronting the imbalance may take time. It certainly takes guts.

TG1
 

Dilpickle

Patron with Honors
Sweetnessandlight ~ Thanks for the LINK.. I read all thru it and enjoyed it very much :) The one that is sticking with me though, is this:

"When the head is severed from the body, eyesight, hearing and brain will continue to function for about 30 seconds or so. So all those people who was guilliotined in France.. They got to experience falling into the basket as a head only."

LOLOL... I'm having a hard time letting go of that one.. I keep seeing a weird bodyless head looking at me, and wondering WTF?? hohoooo

Panda Termint ~ Thanks for the LINK too - I will definitely look thru those Threads :)

TG1 - Your post is very profound.. I appreciate it. It caused me to look at what I don't want to let go of in Scientology.. what I am hanging onto.. I have had wins while in the church, and after it, using the bit of tech I have preserved, there is no doubt of that for me.. there is also no doubt I do not want to belong to the COS... however.. I still want to be OT LOL If ya'll want to bullbait me in anyway, that would be a good place to start :) I have had enough experiences during my 60's and 70's hippie days on LSD and pot that caused me to exteriorize.. and during my time in Scientology (1973 - 1982) that caused me to exteriorize during sessions and between them to feel "something is up"... but getting there in a stable condition.. ah.. that is the problem, eh? I believe in Magic.. in Spirit.. in super abilities.. I haven't given up on that one.. it's just that the Church was in NO WAY going to get me there.. if anything, they seem to want to pound you into the ground and make meatballs out of you.. I appreciate you ALL.. the ones who are kind and the ones who are throttling me.. however.. having been throughly throttled in the Church, I don't want a steady diet of it on this Message Board.. so take it a bit easy now and then so I can rebound :) Dilpickle
 
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

... Considering seriously that one's benefits from Scientology were not worth the total costs can be very hard to confront. For long-time practitioners, confronting the imbalance may take time. It certainly takes guts.

TG1

And just as for many their 'total cost' far exceeds any perceived benefit, for others the benefits received far exceeded what they consider to be their 'total costs'.

The reasons for the disparity are many but principle among them are: the amount of time spent involved with the church, the degree of involvement with authoritarian structures within the church, access to scientology services while involved with the church, and the quality & nature of any services received while a member of the church.

The best reports come from those who feel their personal expectations of the services were met and who avoided the abuses of management, either through good fortune or through their own early departure. The worst reports come from those whose needs were unmet and/or were subjected to the worst possible circumstances by church leaders.


Mark A. Baker
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

And just as for many their 'total cost' far exceeds any perceived benefit, for others the benefits received far exceeded what they consider to be their 'total costs'.

The reasons for the disparity are many but principle among them are: the amount of time spent involved with the church, the degree of involvement with authoritarian structures within the church, access to scientology services while involved with the church, and the quality & nature of any services received while a member of the church.

The best reports come from those who feel their personal expectations of the services were met and who avoided the abuses of management, either through good fortune or through their own early departure. The worst reports come from those whose needs were unmet and/or were subjected to the worst possible circumstances by church leaders.


Mark A. Baker

Wit all due respect, this seems to me to be a lot like saying nothing. I could never generalize with such apparent certainty and don't see how Mr Baker can. The first paragraph could be said about anything without saying anything. Sailing or fishing or playing violin for example. Can you really evaluate things in that way. Mostly I can't. Things are too complex.

I knew people who got out right away. They didn't justify their departures on the basis of cost/benefit. They just though it was BS and left. Example: I audited one guy to a huge state elation and feeling he was changed for the better. He quit scn when it all came back. Didn't want to screw around with all the remedies and reasons for relapse. Said scn was 'nothing.'

I knew others who worked around the clock for the cult and suffered great abuse. Some of those--not many it seems--are still in. Some are hubbardite indies. Others are straight up critics who think it was fundamentally a fraud. (Like me.) I don't see any 'disparity' or any useful two category classification. Many people who've never been in are staunch, implacable critics. All the exes and critics have individual stories, but I couldn't generalize without doing a rigorous survey. How can you?

Then there're the questions of 'influence,' social control, social behavior, taboos, social necessities, peer pressure, delusion, trance, belief, misattribution. These are, I think, powerful things and need to be discussed, although I can only speak authoritatively of my own experience. How does one go from being a true believer to being free of the whole thing? How does one come to hold beliefs despite evidence (like one's own actual behavior and that of other people in the cult) that they are false?

Why do some continue to believe the generality 'scientology works' despite endless testimony about real social behavior in the cult? Despite volumes of testimony about hubbard's character. Despite the absence of clears and OTs.

This is not just a case of 'many don't like it but some do, depending on certain experiences." It is, in my view, a case of 'How the hell did such a monstrosity evolve?' and 'what can be done about it.'

John
 
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

... Why do some continue to believe the generality 'scientology works' despite endless testimony about real social behavior in the cult? ...

Because what several have evidently never understood is that it is possible to benefit from the workability of the subject of scientology without ever becoming ensnared in the cult. Not merely possible, the only effective way to experience real gains from the use of scientology is to minimize, or better yet avoid completely, any entanglement with hubbard's cult.

Many have managed to do so to varying degrees successfully.


Mark A. Baker
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

Because what several have evidently never understood is that it is possible to benefit from the workability of the subject of scientology without ever becoming ensnared in the cult. Not merely possible, the only effective way to experience real gains from the use of scientology is to minimize, or better yet avoid completely, any entanglement with hubbard's cult.

Many have managed to do so to varying degrees successfully.

Mark A. Baker
This is yet another attempt to explain why Scientology has never produced the specific, miraculous benefits promised by Hubbard.

People "managed" to get "benefits" from Scientology.

What? If they "managed" to apply "standard Scientology"? If they "got lucky"?

Or are all those alleged "benefits from Scientology" the exact same "benefits" that a True Believer gets from any therapy? The exact same benefits everyone gets from living life and paying attention?

If Scientology technology "worked" and provided the promised "benefits" -- each process would do so consistently for everyone. Instead Scientology's alleged benefits happen very rarely and quite randomly with different people getting quite different results all the way down the line.

The only part of Scientology that "works" is the placebo effect.

Show me one "benefit" from Scientology that isn't a typical benefit from many, many, many other activities.

Bill
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

Because what several have evidently never understood is that it is possible to benefit from the workability of the subject of scientology without ever becoming ensnared in the cult. Not merely possible, the only effective way to experience real gains from the use of scientology is to minimize, or better yet avoid completely, any entanglement with hubbard's cult.

Many have managed to do so to varying degrees successfully.


Mark A. Baker


Great. I wish the cult would promote what you say. But if they, the cult said that, then who would "join". I never joined. I guess it was assumed because I did courses and got auditing.But I never joined. So why do a doubt formula per the ethics book. What a joke. I bought a service. Did it deliver?

Exchange keeps the bank off. I guess that applies to OT's. But I thought as one attains "clear", one no longer has a bank of engrams. And if one OT8, there is no bank?

Oh, it's so confusing.
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

Great. I wish the cult would promote what you say. But if they, the cult said that, then who would "join". I never joined. I guess it was assumed because I did courses and got auditing.But I never joined. So why do a doubt formula per the ethics book. What a joke. I bought a service. Did it deliver?

Exchange keeps the bank off. I guess that applies to OT's. But I thought as one attains "clear", one no longer has a bank of engrams. And if one OT8, there is no bank?

Oh, it's so confusing.

I don't know.

Go to mcdonalds and get a hamburger. buy it. did it taste good. yes or no?

If taste good, exchange in. No natter.

If taste bad, lot's of natter.
 
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

This is yet another attempt to explain why Scientology has never produced the specific, miraculous benefits promised by Hubbard. ...

Hardly, Bill. The real benefits to be had are more subtle than those of which hubbard made such excessive & grandiose promise. That doesn't negate those real benefits. It simply illustrates that the church does not deliver those which they promise, in contradiction to their own promises & policy. :)


Mark A. Baker
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Summing up your sunk costs in Scientology

Hardly, Bill. The real benefits to be had are more subtle than those of which hubbard made such excessive & grandiose promise. That doesn't negate those real benefits. It simply illustrates that the church does not deliver those which they promise, in contradiction to their own promises & policy. :)

Mark A. Baker
Provide one "real" benefit from Scientology that is any different from actual benefits people get all the time from all sorts of activities.

People have spent their lives dedicated to Scientology and the only "real" (but subtle!) benefits they get for all that time, all that dedication, all that money is something that is common from something like a good diet and exercise program? Tell me, where is any benefit unique to Scientology?

I'll tell you. If there is any benefit that is unique to Scientology, it's too subtle for me to detect.

Bill
 
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