trepidatious

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
I thought this was sorta the "return of cowboy thread."

Delving into the shrouded life of LRH.

What happened? Did I miss something?

attachment.php
 
Sometimes humans are capable of feats that do appear miraculous.

Last summer a man working on his car got pinned under when the jack slipped. His 22 year old daughter lifted the 5600 pound car off her father when she heard him screaming.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/daughter-lifts-jeep-dad-leg-article-1.1395910

No Scientology was required. :no:

yeah pitsy

no scientology has been needed for ten zillion things

most especially not only is no scientology necessary for a soul to have a living relationship with god who is god the living god studying ron's work might encourage someone to most ungodly conduct

but...

if you hold to familiar virtues, read our judeochristian scripture, love the bill of rights which among other things gives paulette the right to publish her book you might gain some very nice abilities from a study of auditing...
 
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. . .
I thought this was sorta the "return of cowboy thread."

Delving into the shrouded life of LRH.

What happened? Did I miss something?

attachment.php

you're right sweetheart...

hey!

they provoked me!

but i don't want to turn cowboy's thread into an animal house food fight. i'll stop posting here for a couple days...

luv ya...
 
yeah pitsy

no scientology has been needed for ten zillion things

most especially not only is no scientology necessary for a soul to have a living relationship with god who is god the living god studying ron's might encourage someone to most ungodly conduct

but...

if you hold to familiar virtues, read our judeochristian scripture, love the bill of rights which among other things gives paulette the right to publish her book you might gain some very nice abilities from a study of auditing...

but just one more thing before i gracefully bow out...

the above post is not to be construed as a recommendation to begin a study in CoS while shelly is being held incommunicado...

etc...
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Back OT, Cowboy, I'll repeat my previous question.

For those messengers demoted from Hisself's presence, what was their fate? Did they break down? Blow? Just go quietly to another area of the Co$?

And a more personal question.

What did you, yourself get from your time with Ron? A cautionary tale? An inoculation? Or something more?
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Cowboy.

Those messengers who got demoted. What was their mental state? What did they do afterwards? Did they blow right away, or stick around?

depended on the messenger. Look what happened to Annie B. Depended on the level of Stockholm Syndrome.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
depended on the messenger. Look what happened to Annie B. Depended on the level of Stockholm Syndrome.

But most of y'all weren't at Annie's level of dedication after a few years of service, or were you? Were you one of the first, or last to blow?
 

Gib

Crusader
I apologize in advance for this little derail, but I want to say this again and more clearly than I have before on ESMB.

When I walked away I walked AWAY. It was not until around 5 years ago that I began reading the stuff on the Net re: El Ron and Scn. I didn't know Mayo's story from '83 on and never knew about what happened with Kima, Burdon, Dincalci, Sullivan, Armstrong, Hana and all those others.

Having known these Folks and having "chewed some of the same dirt" I was profoundly moved by their stories and what they had to say. I found my way here to read Dart and Alan's stuff and, after time, began to piecemeal out my "Take". Most all Y'all were so kind, patient and attentive which helped me immeasurably "Find my Voice".

But, without Kima and the rest I'd most likely kept my mouth shut and my 2 cents to myself. I never dreamed that the real Story & Truth would someday be out there for all the world read, written by they that lived it, know it and I personally know to be very intelligent and of Honest, Decent and Caring Hearts.

Face:)

dat true,

when you walked away, there was no internet. Times a chang'in.

I believe when present time folks walk away, as different from your time period, why folks look to the internet for answers, to get answers to Hubbard's mystery sandwich.

A perfect example right now is Galactic Patrol. :yes:

I still have a question which probably will never be answered, to the mystery sandwich, which is

who are the 270 people Hubbard "cleared" in his declarations as "fact" in the original book known as Dianetics, published in 1950?

such a mystery
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
dat true,

when you walked away, there was no internet. Times a chang'in.

I believe when present time folks walk away, as different from your time period, why folks look to the internet for answers, to get answers to Hubbard's mystery sandwich.

A perfect example right now is Galactic Patrol. :yes:

I still have a question which probably will never be answered, to the mystery sandwich, which is

who are the 270 people Hubbard "cleared" in his declarations as "fact" in the original book known as Dianetics, published in 1950?

such a mystery

IMO, those 270 "Clears" are as real as the Easter Bunny. :coolwink:

Yes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8swg1bo0J6c

Face:)
 

Gadfly

Crusader
who are the 270 people Hubbard "cleared" in his declarations as "fact" in the original book known as Dianetics, published in 1950?

such a mystery

There is no mystery at all (I know you know that). Hubbard just MADE UP that number. He fabricated it out of nothing. He pulled it out of his ass - as he did a great MANY ideas and claims within Scientology.

He started as a writer of "fiction", and he continued that strongly when authoring Scientology. The problem was/is that in a fiction book, you KNOW that it is all "made up", but in Scientology the many fictions (lies) are presented as facts.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Back OT, Cowboy, I'll repeat my previous question.

For those messengers demoted from Hisself's presence, what was their fate? Did they break down? Blow? Just go quietly to another area of the Co$?

And a more personal question.

What did you, yourself get from your time with Ron? A cautionary tale? An inoculation? Or something more?

Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
But most of y'all weren't at Annie's level of dedication after a few years of service, or were you? Were you one of the first, or last to blow?

I'd rather not say. I guess I've probably pinned down myself in many ways, but I don't want to be too specific on dates.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

Wow! This so powerful. Thank you. Pure gratitude. :flowers:

Your words (above) make me weep, they make me smile. I'm off to have dinner with friends, to enjoy each and every moment. Anyone that has been in scientology and got out will know exactly what that means. A sense of indescribable liberation! :)

Thank you so much Cowboy!
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

WOW!!!

On behalf of all of Us that wandered the Paths of Erebus, drunk on the Lethe's waters, are fortunate enough to be Here and are Walking the Earth, away from the Gates of Hades, on our Way towards Home...from the bottom of my Heart...thank you, Cowboy. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::yes::yes::yes::clap::clap::clap:

Face:)
 
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cowboy

Patron with Honors
Wow! This so powerful. Thank you. Pure gratitude. :flowers:

Your words (above) make me weep, they make me smile. I'm off to have dinner with friends, to enjoy each and every moment. Anyone that has been in scientology and got out will know exactly what that means. A sense of indescribable liberation! :)

Thank you so much Cowboy!

no. thank you! perhaps I let my emotions get the better of me.
 
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Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

This is a wonderful post.
 
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