trepidatious

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sounds about right, a cult couldn't exist if it's cult leader had any respect for the members of the cult. That's one thing Miscavige realized this early on. Scientology was never intended to benefit Scientologists, it was designed to make Scientologists benefit Scientology

Well, the time period was important, too. He couldn't have anyone around who could remember his struggles in the old days when he was so unsure of himself and lost the rights to Dianetics for a while.

Kirov was destined to be murdered.
 

Gib

Crusader
Yep. :thumbsup:

The focus on "PTS/SP" is rife throughout the entire "Bridge" in "Green Tech" and "Red Tech" (S&D's, PTS Rdn, NVRD, L's, 5 & 5A, XDN, FPRD, OT3, KNOTs, etc., etc.).:yes:

Face:)

kind of funny, cuz when one listens to all the lectures and reads the books prior to 1965, which I have (but come to think of it, why LRH no wrote any books after 1965, just policy letters and HCOB's, other than his sci fi stories called Battle Field Earth & the 10 volume set Mission Earth, is there a correlation, LOL)

why they ain't no mention of PTS/SP tech. LOL
 
Well, the time period was important, too. He couldn't have anyone around who could remember his struggles in the old days when he was so unsure of himself and lost the rights to Dianetics for a while.

Kirov was destined to be murdered.
Ron had a unique talent of being able to convince himself that anyone who bitch slapped him up side the head with a dose of reality, was an SP sent by the imaginary evil psychs to ruin him.
 
kind of funny, cuz when one listens to all the lectures and reads the books prior to 1965, which I have (but come to think of it, why LRH no wrote any books after 1965, just policy letters and HCOB's, other than his sci fi stories called Battle Field Earth & the 10 volume set Mission Earth, is there a correlation, LOL)

why they ain't no mention of PTS/SP tech. LOL
Building a batshit crazy cult is a whole easier than trying to keep the cult members from finding out they belong to a batshit crazy cult

He evolved from flimflam salesman to prison warden ... with a whole shitload of drugs in between.
 

Gib

Crusader
Ron had a unique talent of being able to convince himself that anyone who bitch slapped him up side the head with a dose of reality, was an SP sent by the imaginary evil psychs to ruin him.

actually, Ron said all he had to do was go over to the evil psych's, show them how to "cure" people, and show the evil psych's how to make a better buck with his technology called scientology and dianetics,

but Ron decided not to do this cuz Ron wanted a game to play.

I actually posted a picture of the exact tape lecture back in the 1950's that Ron gave the lecture,

back here somewhere in my postings.

I suppose I can find it, or repost it.

But on the same line of thought, why do not the great scientologists with all there OT powers, simply do what Ron said to do and end the war with the evil pysch's? I mean any OT can and should prove a evil psych wrong, with verifiable proof. No?
 
actually, Ron said all he had to do was go over to the evil psych's, show them how to "cure" people, and show the evil psych's how to make a better buck with his technology called scientology and dianetics,

but Ron decided not to do this cuz Ron wanted a game to play.

I actually posted a picture of the exact tape lecture back in the 1950's that Ron gave the lecture,

back here somewhere in my postings.

I suppose I can find it, or repost it.

But on the same line of thought, why do not the great scientologists with all there OT powers, simply do what Ron said to do and end the war with the evil pysch's? I mean any OT can and should prove a evil psych wrong, with verifiable proof. No?
Ron tried to peddle it to the psychiatric community, but he ran into a slight little problem... none of his shit worked.

He really never got over the arrogance of those people, expecting actual valid claims instead of a silly ass role playing game.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, the time period was important, too. He couldn't have anyone around who could remember his struggles in the old days when he was so unsure of himself and lost the rights to Dianetics for a while.

Kirov was destined to be murdered.

:biggrin:

I've written about the following a bit before on ESMB.

I got into Scn in a time, place and situation wherein I was able to chat about El Ron, the "Tech" and the Early Days with "Old Timers"...Julia Salmon, Verne Townsend, Don Breeding to name a few. Very early on I knew that the "Tech had been worked out backwards" and through conversations with "Old Timers", the fact that I was a voracious and curious reader, and naively/honestly thought I needed to understand the "Old Days" to fully Grok Scn and "OT", I began a private personal "quest" to know and understand just how all "This" happened and, as best I could, to understand and appreciate what it was like for El Ron to walk in the magic "Boots in the Sky" and how Hisself found "Them".

Over my years on the Apollo and personal interaction with El Ron I realized that Hisself did not act like and was NOT the "OT" I had envisioned, read about in Hisself's works and heard stories about from others. But, for some reason, I kept thinking that there was, or some day would be, "Pie in the Sky". As I look back on it now, what reaffirmed and reinforced Scn to me during those years was my respect, interaction and adoration of many--but not all--of my fellow Crew/Scns, the here and there "Wins" I'd had and my personal desire to "be a better person", help others be "happier" and be part of the foundation for something "Good" that would "Change the World".

face:)
 
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Cowboy, you mentioned flashes of brilliance in Ron. Could you explain what you meant, there?

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(and this doesn't count as a post either because i'm just underlining the post Udarnik made because if i weren't accepting a brief self imposed banishment from this thread i would have posed this exact question to cowboy which further validates my OTness because even though i'm in the doghouse sipping wine with snoopie and admiring his van gogh i can nonetheless post my question through Udarnik even better than edgar bergen with charlie mcarthy because not one of you saw my lips move when this post came up)
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
. . .
Since I wrote my last post (above), something might have
gone wrong with my computer.

When I arrive at the main page of the website, I see
nothing but a vertical row of strange images in the
right column.

Like this:
avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


avatar6347_1.gif


What does this mean? (wink, wink)

Have any of you had this happen on your computer?

What would make this happen out of the blue?
attachment.php

Depends what country ya is in and to where ya might be trying to drive. Worry not, just don't stop to pick up any ghosts of the past. Otherwise it is okay to pass with caution.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Cowboy, you mentioned flashes of brilliance in Ron. Could you explain what you meant, there?

Sure. I had the same question earlier and meant to answer it. First, LRH had the insight to form a religion, with all the tax advantages and freedoms that entails. As Dianetics faded out, he morphed into Scn, expanding a belief system so that he could attract more adherents, even leaving the borders of countries to avoid the restraining laws.

He could play into people's desires, and dexterously manipulate them. Who doesn't want to be a spiritual being in command of the 8 dynamics? He was a student of other religions and history, and could wield that knowledge to manipulate human nature.

But, first hand brilliance; He knew how to use the legal system. Unfortunately, whoever has the most money and attorneys wins, and used that to great effect against the enemies of the church. I saw him use that, a winning strategy, many times, and, to give him credit, he called a spade a spade and explained that was exactly what he was doing. In fact, the church follows that guideline to this day.

Money was power. He played the game. Buying off people was part of the game. His goal was to win. So he used the resources he had.

The whole marketing scheme was brilliant. He continually refreshed people's orientation toward God-like powers, keeping them focused on that, to avoid dealing with minor details... such as the tech didn't work.

The CMO was brilliant. Why do armed services start people at a young age? The same reasons he started his messengers young, they were impressionable. He could mold them into what he wanted them to be.

He maintained a safety net of fallback positions where he could retreat to, always planning, like a chess game, several moves ahead. I mean that physically. Locations he could shift to if the FBI came knocking.

He created enemies that you could hate. Psychiatrists. SPs. Xenu. FBI. Squirrels. And, like armed conflicts through history, he sought to make them objects of hatred devoid of humanity.

Like a magician, if you watch his hands, you would be so busy that you would miss what he really didn't want you to see or question.

And most of all, by setting himself up as a deity, there was no questioning his statements. He was, after all, delivering messages from the holy mount.

Messengers, and I hate to say this, cause I was one, were like dogs at his feet, luxuriating in his slightest word of praise. And so, we too, closest to him, fell into his grand scheme. This was not by chance.
 

Gib

Crusader
Ron tried to peddle it to the psychiatric community, but he ran into a slight little problem... none of his shit worked.

He really never got over the arrogance of those people, expecting actual valid claims instead of a silly ass role playing game.

I understand, but in addition to what you say, what Ron said as his solution to being rejected, was Ron's own words saying he just wanted a game to play, do you get what I am saying? It's Ron's PR at work to hide the truth.

I heard the lecture, his words, it's part of the "Basics" that us present time scientologists have to do, but present time scientologists don't connect the dots, but I did since I was on the fence a few years ago, while still being on course to do the "Basics", but yet researching sites like this, a few years ago. It's a subtle thing unless one is questioning both sides, that being the truth and that being Ron's PR.
 

CO2

Patron Meritorious
:biggrin:

I've written about the following a bit before on ESMB.

I got into Scn in a time, place and situation wherein I was able to chat about El Ron, the "Tech" and the Early Days with "Old Timers"...Julia Salmon, Verne Townsend, Don Breeding to name a few. Very early on I knew that the "Tech had been worked out backwards" and through conversations with "Old Timers", the fact that I was a voracious and curious reader, and naively/honestly thought I needed to understand the "Old Days" to fully Grok Scn and "OT", I began a private personal "quest" to know and understand just how all "This" happened and, as best I could, to understand and appreciate what it was like for El Ron to walk in the magic "Boots in the Sky".

Over my years on the Apollo and personal interaction with El Ron I realized that Hisself did not act like and was NOT the "OT" I had envisioned, read about in Hisself's works and heard stories about from others. But, for some reason, I kept thinking that there was, or some day would be, "Pie in the Sky". As I look back on it now, what reaffirmed and reinforced Scn to me during those years was my respect, interaction and adoration of many--but not all--of my fellow Crew/Scns, the here and there "Wins" I'd had and my personal desire to "be a better person", help others be "happier" and be part of the foundation for something "Good" that would "Change the World".

face:)

Face,

I don't think anyone has profiled Ken and Julia Salmon, who ran the LA Org on 9th or Verne Townsend, who ran the LA Org Academy.

Would you mind profiling them?

and Don Breeding, the name rings a bell, but I can't place the face or accomplishments.
 
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cowboy

Patron with Honors
that is all quite a mouthful isn't it? i don't doubt this is the original. but i have never seen the processes. this is a long standing question with me, as the stars sigh in the milky way and blah blah blah;)
what were the actual auditing questions on this level?
anyone, anyone?
I have an opinion, but cannot state with complete certainty.

What I do know is that he shifted levels around, in hopes of finding people's buttons that would get them to part with their money.

I remember one time we had a Flag FCCI who wrote, and somehow, the situation came through me. A poor lady spent her life savings, had flare-ups, was more screwed up than ever after hundreds of thousands of dollars spent at Flag. I recommended we fix her, if possible, free of charge, since she didn't have a pot to ..... in.

I got yelled at. Loudly. This isn't a charity, he made clear. We can't provide freebies.

So much for caring.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
And, one other thing that Cowboy articulated so well in one of his recent Landmark Post on his Thread...

At a very young age, just out of College, I was traveling the world, getting to "Play a Role" of someone older, more justifiably qualified and more "cool" than I was and had rightfully earned. I took it all very seriously and wound up in situations and did some stuff that almost no one my age would have ever been in a position to do. It was intoxicating, especially when the "Big Dog" says again and again, "Very, Very Well Done" and "Very Highly Commended" to you. What served me well after I walked away and helped build a life, business and future for my children was the skill, knack and confidence I developed in the So and personal service to El Ron to be a "Quick Study", focus on "The Target" and BS my way through practically anything.

Conversely, I assure Y'all that the biggest, most painful and lasting mistakes of my life are from the skill, knack and confidence I developed in the So and personal service to El Ron to be a "Quick Study", focus on "The Target" and BS my way through practically anything.

I don't regret my life, my years of Scn and in Hisself's personal service--not any longer. However, I've been fortunate beyond what I probably deserve, there are so many that have suffered misfortune assuredly beyond what they deserve and I'm still working on letting "It" go.

The best, most valuable and helpful things I've experienced from Scn is being an Ex, here with all Y'all and "back channel" chats with some mighty fine kindred folks from "back in the days". :yes:

Keep On Truckin'. :coolwink:

Face:)
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Face,

I don't think anyone has profiled Ken and Julia Salmon, who ran the LA Org on 9th or Verne Townsend, who ryan the LA Org Academy.

Would you mind profiling them?

and Don Breeding, the name rings a bell, but I can't place the face or accomplishments.

Okay, CO2. But, not tonight...in a few days or maybe next week. I've posted about Julia before, and mentioned Ken, Verne and Don. Where do you want me to post my comments...here or on the Apollo Thread?

Your Pal,

Face:)
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I have an opinion, but cannot state with complete certainty.

What I do know is that he shifted levels around, in hopes of finding people's buttons that would get them to part with their money.

I remember one time we had a Flag FCCI who wrote, and somehow, the situation came through me. A poor lady spent her life savings, had flare-ups, was more screwed up than ever after hundreds of thousands of dollars spent at Flag. I recommended we fix her, if possible, free of charge, since she didn't have a pot to ..... in.

I got yelled at. Loudly. This isn't a charity, he made clear. We can't provide freebies.

So much for caring.

Man oh man, Cowboy! :melodramatic::ohmy:

Not only do you sure enough have a real thumper of a Heart, you sure enough gots some serious Gooeynads sayin' that to the "Old Man". :yes::thumbsup:

Face:)
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Sure. I had the same question earlier and meant to answer it. First, LRH had the insight to form a religion, with all the tax advantages and freedoms that entails. As Dianetics faded out, he morphed into Scn, expanding a belief system so that he could attract more adherents, even leaving the borders of countries to avoid the restraining laws.

He could play into people's desires, and dexterously manipulate them. Who doesn't want to be a spiritual being in command of the 8 dynamics? He was a student of other religions and history, and could wield that knowledge to manipulate human nature.

But, first hand brilliance; He knew how to use the legal system. Unfortunately, whoever has the most money and attorneys wins, and used that to great effect against the enemies of the church. I saw him use that, a winning strategy, many times, and, to give him credit, he called a spade a spade and explained that was exactly what he was doing. In fact, the church follows that guideline to this day.

Money was power. He played the game. Buying off people was part of the game. His goal was to win. So he used the resources he had.

The whole marketing scheme was brilliant. He continually refreshed people's orientation toward God-like powers, keeping them focused on that, to avoid dealing with minor details... such as the tech didn't work.

The CMO was brilliant. Why do armed services start people at a young age? The same reasons he started his messengers young, they were impressionable. He could mold them into what he wanted them to be.

He maintained a safety net of fallback positions where he could retreat to, always planning, like a chess game, several moves ahead. I mean that physically. Locations he could shift to if the FBI came knocking.

He created enemies that you could hate. Psychiatrists. SPs. Xenu. FBI. Squirrels. And, like armed conflicts through history, he sought to make them objects of hatred devoid of humanity.

Like a magician, if you watch his hands, you would be so busy that you would miss what he really didn't want you to see or question.

And most of all, by setting himself up as a deity, there was no questioning his statements. He was, after all, delivering messages from the holy mount.

Messengers, and I hate to say this, cause I was one, were like dogs at his feet, luxuriating in his slightest word of praise. And so, we too, closest to him, fell into his grand scheme. This was not by chance.

Mmm, mmm, mmm!

Another great post.

Thanks, Cowboy.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sure. I had the same question earlier and meant to answer it. First, LRH had the insight to form a religion, with all the tax advantages and freedoms that entails. As Dianetics faded out, he morphed into Scn, expanding a belief system so that he could attract more adherents, even leaving the borders of countries to avoid the restraining laws.

He could play into people's desires, and dexterously manipulate them. Who doesn't want to be a spiritual being in command of the 8 dynamics? He was a student of other religions and history, and could wield that knowledge to manipulate human nature.

But, first hand brilliance; He knew how to use the legal system. Unfortunately, whoever has the most money and attorneys wins, and used that to great effect against the enemies of the church. I saw him use that, a winning strategy, many times, and, to give him credit, he called a spade a spade and explained that was exactly what he was doing. In fact, the church follows that guideline to this day.

Money was power. He played the game. Buying off people was part of the game. His goal was to win. So he used the resources he had.

The whole marketing scheme was brilliant. He continually refreshed people's orientation toward God-like powers, keeping them focused on that, to avoid dealing with minor details... such as the tech didn't work.

The CMO was brilliant. Why do armed services start people at a young age? The same reasons he started his messengers young, they were impressionable. He could mold them into what he wanted them to be.

He maintained a safety net of fallback positions where he could retreat to, always planning, like a chess game, several moves ahead. I mean that physically. Locations he could shift to if the FBI came knocking.

He created enemies that you could hate. Psychiatrists. SPs. Xenu. FBI. Squirrels. And, like armed conflicts through history, he sought to make them objects of hatred devoid of humanity.

Like a magician, if you watch his hands, you would be so busy that you would miss what he really didn't want you to see or question.

And most of all, by setting himself up as a deity, there was no questioning his statements. He was, after all, delivering messages from the holy mount.

Messengers, and I hate to say this, cause I was one, were like dogs at his feet, luxuriating in his slightest word of praise. And so, we too, closest to him, fell into his grand scheme. This was not by chance.

This post is so well said and ALL sooo true.:yes:

Re: Messengers...

It wasn't just the Messengers that fell under the spell of Hisself's persona. On the Apollo Pers Staff, CommodeDoors Staff Aides, HU, etc. were The Master's "working dogs". The Messengers, over time, rose to the top of the food chain and became the "purest of the pure' but, on the Apollo, there were other coveted positions in the pecking order amongst the "working dogs".

The "Rise" of the Messengers was an "Evolutionary" process that El Ron's "Divine Hand" orchestrated over a period of years, from "sleeve dogs", to "lap dogs" to, eventually, "working dogs".

El Ron played the "Inner Circle" like a fiddle...Hisself would make a certain "offhand" comment to a selected supplicant that was calculated to "get back to" or "send a message"--positive or negative--to Folks that were anywhere from the highest of the high to the lowest of the low.

Over the years, I watched this evolution rise to the point that if the Messengers "liked you" or, even better, if the right Messenger "liked you" they could "Make You". Conversely, if they, and especially the "right one", disliked you, you were toast.

In the early days of the Apollo, Mary Sue occupied the ultimate "seat at the Emperors table", in the latter Apollo days the scales were steadily tipping towards the Messengers and, after "Snow White" blew up, the Messengers were the only ones allowed in the dining hall.

Face:)
 
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dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sure. I had the same question earlier and meant to answer it. First, LRH had the insight to form a religion, with all the tax advantages and freedoms that entails. As Dianetics faded out, he morphed into Scn, expanding a belief system so that he could attract more adherents, even leaving the borders of countries to avoid the restraining laws.

He could play into people's desires, and dexterously manipulate them. ...snip....

But, first hand brilliance; He knew how to use the legal system. ...snip...

Money was power. He played the game. Buying off people was part of the game. His goal was to win. So he used the resources he had.



He maintained a safety net of fallback positions where he could retreat to, always planning, like a chess game, several moves ahead. I mean that physically. Locations he could shift to if the FBI came knocking.

....snip.....

This was not by chance.

Cowboy. As to give some additional information at to the first Bolding in your statement quoted I offer from Arnie's huge storehouse of data.

Now, I must backtrack a bit. "Our" HDA was a Medicolegal Expert for the State of California; Marshall Trout, PhD, MD, ScD, LID. A brilliant man, a fine legal and medical scholar; he had been a Superior Court Judge at one point, and preferred to be referred to as "Judge Trout," rather than "Doctor Trout." His opinion of the Medical profession was not high. Scientology can really be blamed on him. One afternoon, while in conference with Hubbard, he being one of the two or three people for whom Ron had any real respect, he told Ron as follows; "If you in Dianetics go on curing Asthma and Arthritis and Bursitis and Cancer and Diabetes and all the other psychosomatic ills to which Humans fall prey, the AMA is going to come down on you for practicing medicine without a license, and we'll all end up in jail; the only way you'll be safe is to make a Religion out of it! Also, the primary, stated goal of the Religion can be Spiritual Healing, but not Physical Healing; that can come as a result of your "Worship Sessions," but cannot be a stated purpose. Look into incorporating as a Religion." The rest, as they say, is History.

And to the second bolded above there is information about the legal hassles both I think in NJ which Ron Ran from and also the real close call in Witchita, when as I vaguely recall reading, a bailiff came for Ron for while he was delivering a lecture and he had to 'pause' the lecture and negotiate with the bailiff on the spot his freedom for the next hours or days.

As to the third bolding Purcell had the money and acquired the Dianetics 'brand' out from under Ron.

If we put all those three items as well of course I am sure there are others, we can see how a ron could have grown 'wiser' or as you say brilliant from the hard knocks of having his 'ethics' put in....LOL. by others who were more accomplished or authoritative in their respective fields.

Thus 'cunning' as an additional adjective I offer from my perspective to your choice of Brilliance, as we sit around the 'camp fire' and share.




I have an opinion, but cannot state with complete certainty.

What I do know is that he shifted levels around, in hopes of finding people's buttons that would get them to part with their money.

I remember one time we had a Flag FCCI who wrote, and somehow, the situation came through me. A poor lady spent her life savings, had flare-ups, was more screwed up than ever after hundreds of thousands of dollars spent at Flag. I recommended we fix her, if possible, free of charge, since she didn't have a pot to ..... in.

I got yelled at. Loudly. This isn't a charity, he made clear. We can't provide freebies.

So much for caring.

And yet we have a 501(3)C :duh:

:gathering:
 
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