Trout Run Narconon
- Thread starter Anonycat
- Start date
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I'm glad you posted about this but it's important to identify the source of what you posted and just provide a fair-use excerpt instead of the whole article with a link for people to read the rest.
The fair use excerpt is for several reasons: 1) it protects the forum from a DMCA take down notice for copyright infringement. 2) if a link is provided, people will visit the site. This provides feedback to the news source that people are reading it and are interested in the subject. It's a stat thing all media use. 3) if an article about Scientology and Narconon gets lots of visits and shares, the topics stay on the radar of the media. Hits and shares = more readers.
As well, in case you didn't know, the Frederick News Post, provider of the article you posted, has been an important resource in the matter of the hearings on Trout Run and Narconon, as well as the current appeal case before the court by Social Betterment Properties. I would not have even known about the Trout Run application to go through applying for a Historic Places designation if it had not been for this media source. And the reporter would not have been about to know as much about the Narconon issues critics have been exposing, or the real information about Narconon and it not being qualified to have a licensed facility program in Maryland, had she not found the information I and other critics posted on Reaching For the Tipping Point and Narconon reviews.net
Many times one will read articles unaware that critics of Scientology and it's front groups have helping been behind the scenes, providing the media with information. So for myself and others, it's about gratitude... a matter of giving credit to these media outlets for the work they are doing. Especially because there was a time when the media was too afraid to report on Scientology and no amount of requests could make a difference. We've come a long way. So when I see someone post a whole article written by someone else, especially a news article from a major regional media source, I feel I need to respond. Don't take it personally. I do this for the forum as well.
Here is the link to the article:
Historic designation bill headed for council
By Danielle E. Gaines [email protected] 4 hrs ago
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_57845ad2-3d69-5d8f-af0a-47327c2fab1d.html
The fair use excerpt is for several reasons: 1) it protects the forum from a DMCA take down notice for copyright infringement. 2) if a link is provided, people will visit the site. This provides feedback to the news source that people are reading it and are interested in the subject. It's a stat thing all media use. 3) if an article about Scientology and Narconon gets lots of visits and shares, the topics stay on the radar of the media. Hits and shares = more readers.
As well, in case you didn't know, the Frederick News Post, provider of the article you posted, has been an important resource in the matter of the hearings on Trout Run and Narconon, as well as the current appeal case before the court by Social Betterment Properties. I would not have even known about the Trout Run application to go through applying for a Historic Places designation if it had not been for this media source. And the reporter would not have been about to know as much about the Narconon issues critics have been exposing, or the real information about Narconon and it not being qualified to have a licensed facility program in Maryland, had she not found the information I and other critics posted on Reaching For the Tipping Point and Narconon reviews.net
Many times one will read articles unaware that critics of Scientology and it's front groups have helping been behind the scenes, providing the media with information. So for myself and others, it's about gratitude... a matter of giving credit to these media outlets for the work they are doing. Especially because there was a time when the media was too afraid to report on Scientology and no amount of requests could make a difference. We've come a long way. So when I see someone post a whole article written by someone else, especially a news article from a major regional media source, I feel I need to respond. Don't take it personally. I do this for the forum as well.
Here is the link to the article:
Historic designation bill headed for council
By Danielle E. Gaines [email protected] 4 hrs ago
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_57845ad2-3d69-5d8f-af0a-47327c2fab1d.html
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Sorry, I'm on Eastern Standard time... it's 1:30am here. Hope you are enjoying time with family
BTW, I already did what you mentioned. That was the full article link I posted at the end of my comment. It's not a subscription article. They give you about 10 times to visit the newspaper and read, with warning after the 2nd visit and the number of visits you have left, once you visit. Then you need a subscription. All one has to do is clear their browser cookies for the site to get more visits.
Merry Christmas
BTW, I already did what you mentioned. That was the full article link I posted at the end of my comment. It's not a subscription article. They give you about 10 times to visit the newspaper and read, with warning after the 2nd visit and the number of visits you have left, once you visit. Then you need a subscription. All one has to do is clear their browser cookies for the site to get more visits.
Merry Christmas
Little David
Gold Meritorious Patron
From Tony Ortega and Mary McConnell:
snip:
UPDATE: We just had a telephone conversation with Mary McConnell, who gave us some basics on how the hearing went today.
First, the news. Judge Nicklas did hear oral arguments from the two sides today, and gave himself 30 days to render a decision. Mary said she found the hearing to be a lot of fun as Judge Nicklas proved to be knowledgeable about the subject areas in general (including drug rehab) and in the case facts in particular.
Mary said that SBPI’s attorneys (SBPI is a subsidiary of the Church of Scientology) tried to convince the judge that this was really a zoning case, but he wasn’t having it.
“They kept trying to make this a zoning case, but he was on their game and said he knew it wasn’t a zoning matter,” Mary says.
The dispute is really about whether the Frederick County Council acted properly when it voted not to put Trout Run on its list of historic places, even after its own Historic Preservation Commission recommended that it be added.
SBPI tried to convince Judge Nicklas that the council had always, in the past, simply accepted the recommendation of the commission. This was the first time it did not put a place on the historic list after the Commission recommended it. SBPI seemed to imply that the council had an obligation to follow the commission’s suggestion.
But Mary says Judge Nicklas resisted that argument. “He’s not falling for that,” she told us. “He pointed out that they may follow the recommendation. They argued over the word ‘may’.”
The other side, meanwhile, tried to keep things focused and simple. “The county’s attorney was clear: This is a legislative issue, not a zoning one,” Mary said.
We asked Mary how the judge reacted when SBPI’s attorney brought up the notion that the Church of Scientology had been discriminated against.
“He totally ignored it,” she said. And perhaps also telling, when SBPI brought up what had been said in public meetings to the council about Scientology invading the county and being a ‘cult,’ the judge pointed out more than once that the people who had made those statements were respected members of the community. Oops.
Anyway, it sounds like Judge Nicklas is very clear on what’s at stake in this case, and that Scientology’s usual tricks didn’t confuse matters. But we always hate to guess how a judge is going to decide. We’ll just have to find out in the next month.
More at http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/04/monday/#more-27734
snip:
UPDATE: We just had a telephone conversation with Mary McConnell, who gave us some basics on how the hearing went today.
First, the news. Judge Nicklas did hear oral arguments from the two sides today, and gave himself 30 days to render a decision. Mary said she found the hearing to be a lot of fun as Judge Nicklas proved to be knowledgeable about the subject areas in general (including drug rehab) and in the case facts in particular.
Mary said that SBPI’s attorneys (SBPI is a subsidiary of the Church of Scientology) tried to convince the judge that this was really a zoning case, but he wasn’t having it.
“They kept trying to make this a zoning case, but he was on their game and said he knew it wasn’t a zoning matter,” Mary says.
The dispute is really about whether the Frederick County Council acted properly when it voted not to put Trout Run on its list of historic places, even after its own Historic Preservation Commission recommended that it be added.
SBPI tried to convince Judge Nicklas that the council had always, in the past, simply accepted the recommendation of the commission. This was the first time it did not put a place on the historic list after the Commission recommended it. SBPI seemed to imply that the council had an obligation to follow the commission’s suggestion.
But Mary says Judge Nicklas resisted that argument. “He’s not falling for that,” she told us. “He pointed out that they may follow the recommendation. They argued over the word ‘may’.”
The other side, meanwhile, tried to keep things focused and simple. “The county’s attorney was clear: This is a legislative issue, not a zoning one,” Mary said.
We asked Mary how the judge reacted when SBPI’s attorney brought up the notion that the Church of Scientology had been discriminated against.
“He totally ignored it,” she said. And perhaps also telling, when SBPI brought up what had been said in public meetings to the council about Scientology invading the county and being a ‘cult,’ the judge pointed out more than once that the people who had made those statements were respected members of the community. Oops.
Anyway, it sounds like Judge Nicklas is very clear on what’s at stake in this case, and that Scientology’s usual tricks didn’t confuse matters. But we always hate to guess how a judge is going to decide. We’ll just have to find out in the next month.
More at http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/04/monday/#more-27734
scooter
Gold Meritorious Patron
On reading through the comments by the Bunkeroos, I noticed that someone pointed out how the cult got scammed by the previous owners of Trout Run who were trying to sell the place and were, shall we say, "Careless with the truth" about the "historical" side of the property.
That's pretty much what happened at Yarramalong, where someone from the cult in LA rang the local real-estate agent (who was selling the property to the cult) to confirm from him that the property would increase in value as the years went by. Seriously, what did they think he was going to say? That it's 50% or more over-priced and they'd never be able to do anything with it?
The really funny part about Yarramalong is that the original contract contained a clause that said the cult could put down a deposit and get a full refund if their DA got knocked back by the local Council. Just before the initial decision on the DA happened, the cult went ahead and bought the property. Then got the DA refused by Wyong Council. Then they appealed - and we all know how well that worked out for them.
$cientology "Administration practices" - where a shitload of stupid collides with a carload of crazy.
That's pretty much what happened at Yarramalong, where someone from the cult in LA rang the local real-estate agent (who was selling the property to the cult) to confirm from him that the property would increase in value as the years went by. Seriously, what did they think he was going to say? That it's 50% or more over-priced and they'd never be able to do anything with it?
The really funny part about Yarramalong is that the original contract contained a clause that said the cult could put down a deposit and get a full refund if their DA got knocked back by the local Council. Just before the initial decision on the DA happened, the cult went ahead and bought the property. Then got the DA refused by Wyong Council. Then they appealed - and we all know how well that worked out for them.
$cientology "Administration practices" - where a shitload of stupid collides with a carload of crazy.
Jump
Operating teatime
I love this.
Judges are very smart people, but they are pushed for time.
People who are smart and pushed for time tend to mountain-top. They look for patterns and go with their gut. Thing is, Scientology is good at presenting a picture that will get a reaction that is good for Scientology.
I love this because the Judge is mountaintopping with the right information and not taking any scibullshit.
Good times
Judges are very smart people, but they are pushed for time.
People who are smart and pushed for time tend to mountain-top. They look for patterns and go with their gut. Thing is, Scientology is good at presenting a picture that will get a reaction that is good for Scientology.
I love this because the Judge is mountaintopping with the right information and not taking any scibullshit.
Good times
Random guy
Patron with Honors
Say, didn't the cult invest heavily with the Feshback-brothers and lose an awful lot of money because they failed to realize they weren't the only ones who were willing to play hard in big league finance? Is it the same thing that's happening here?
ThetanExterior
Gold Meritorious Patron
"We asked Mary how the judge reacted when SBPI’s attorney brought up the notion that the Church of Scientology had been discriminated against." “He totally ignored it,” she said.
Ha ha. It seems that people are getting wise to their "religious discrimination" bullshit.
Ha ha. It seems that people are getting wise to their "religious discrimination" bullshit.
scooter
Gold Meritorious Patron
I honestly don't think any of this latest "strategy" is really thought through. I am of the opinion that these are just whims of the Runt Usurper that His minions are trying to make into some sort of sane business plan.
I watched the "testimony" of Nigel Mannock at the Yarramalong appeal and it sounded like a Sherman special drilled just the night before. And it was all a reaction to what I and other witnesses had brought up in our testimony.
It's just (IMO) "putting out fires" - saying and doing whatever may possibly get the stats up and keep the Whales "donating."
The bureaucracy that is the cult is so inept that long-term planning is virtually non-existent. There is no upper- or even middle-management left. There are no new customers.
I believe the cult is suffering death by a thousand routing forms. It's all they have left apart from the billions of $s in reserves.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
More news on the hearing of the county veto against Social Betterment Properties' attempt to get a land use exception by applying filing for a place on the historic registry - despite the property not being historic. Their appeal claims the reason why the council vetoed it was due to discrimination against Scientology religion. Bunch of baloney.
Judge hears dispute over historic designation that would have allowed Narconon center
Frederick News Post By Danielle E. Gaines [email protected] Jan 4, 2016
Among what the article discusses is this interesting back and forth:
Don't we know that!
With the following NBC article, they provide an un-linkable video, which gives more details and is much more balanced. Watch Scientology's OSA, National Affairs Office Sylvia and John Stanard walk away with theyr attorneys, without giving comment The guy at the end being interviewed is my friend Mark Long who along with myself and others are Interested Parties who SBPI wants to boot from the case. Judge didn't take oral arguments or rule on those Motions but allowed us sit up in front on the county attorney side as parties to the case.
Frederick Co., Scientology-Backed Group at Odds
By Mark Seagraves, NBC Washington
The Church of Scientology is taking the Frederick County Council to court over plans to build a drug rehab facility. On News4 at 6, Mark Segraves reports lawyers for the church say fears about Scientology influenced the council.
http://nbc4dc.com/MeLyzSZ
it was a lot of fun. Here are a few of us No Narconon Trout Run members who arrived early at the court house. We all left smiling, as well
Judge hears dispute over historic designation that would have allowed Narconon center
Frederick News Post By Danielle E. Gaines [email protected] Jan 4, 2016
Among what the article discusses is this interesting back and forth:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_2d463bc7-5ba3-5c51-a400-a6f52581d01a.html
Don't we know that!
With the following NBC article, they provide an un-linkable video, which gives more details and is much more balanced. Watch Scientology's OSA, National Affairs Office Sylvia and John Stanard walk away with theyr attorneys, without giving comment
The guy at the end being interviewed is my friend Mark Long who along with myself and others are Interested Parties who SBPI wants to boot from the case. Judge didn't take oral arguments or rule on those Motions but allowed us sit up in front on the county attorney side as parties to the case.Frederick Co., Scientology-Backed Group at Odds
By Mark Seagraves, NBC Washington
The Church of Scientology is taking the Frederick County Council to court over plans to build a drug rehab facility. On News4 at 6, Mark Segraves reports lawyers for the church say fears about Scientology influenced the council.
http://nbc4dc.com/MeLyzSZ
it was a lot of fun. Here are a few of us No Narconon Trout Run members who arrived early at the court house. We all left smiling, as well
Little David
Gold Meritorious Patron
Bad news?:
A judge ruled in favor of the Church of Scientology, which wants to open a drug rehab facility at a mountain retreat in Frederick County, Maryland.
The county council is considering changing zoning laws to block the facility at Trout Run, which has been used by presidents as a fishing lodge.
snip:
While the judge’s decision is a victory for the Church of Scientology, it may be meaningless. Earlier this week, the council introduced new legislation that would prohibit rehab facilities from historic properties.
An attorney for the church told News4 if the council approves the new law, they’ll sue the county again.
more: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...ology-in-MD-Rehab-Center-Fight-365370241.html
A judge ruled in favor of the Church of Scientology, which wants to open a drug rehab facility at a mountain retreat in Frederick County, Maryland.
The county council is considering changing zoning laws to block the facility at Trout Run, which has been used by presidents as a fishing lodge.
snip:
While the judge’s decision is a victory for the Church of Scientology, it may be meaningless. Earlier this week, the council introduced new legislation that would prohibit rehab facilities from historic properties.
An attorney for the church told News4 if the council approves the new law, they’ll sue the county again.
more: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...ology-in-MD-Rehab-Center-Fight-365370241.html
Little David
Gold Meritorious Patron
Trout Run designation case will go back to County Council for explanation of vote
snip:
A Frederick County Circuit Court judge ruled this week that the council did not properly outline the basis for its decision when it voted against historic designation of the 40-acre camp south of Thurmont.
more: http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_17fa81a7-c466-5a24-9577-24cf7fb67419.html
- By Danielle E. Gaines [email protected]
- 10 hrs ago
snip:
A Frederick County Circuit Court judge ruled this week that the council did not properly outline the basis for its decision when it voted against historic designation of the 40-acre camp south of Thurmont.
more: http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_17fa81a7-c466-5a24-9577-24cf7fb67419.html
Little David
Gold Meritorious Patron
From Tony Ortega:
"We were out on the road all day yesterday and so missed some of the drama happening down in Frederick County, Maryland. Our regular readers know that we’ve been following the action as Scientology struggles to put in a new drug rehab “Narconon” center there with a cute maneuver involving an aging fish camp and some complex local zoning rules."
continues: http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/15/ex...aryland-county-that-denied-scientology-rehab/
"We were out on the road all day yesterday and so missed some of the drama happening down in Frederick County, Maryland. Our regular readers know that we’ve been following the action as Scientology struggles to put in a new drug rehab “Narconon” center there with a cute maneuver involving an aging fish camp and some complex local zoning rules."
continues: http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/15/ex...aryland-county-that-denied-scientology-rehab/
CommunicatorIC
@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
Frederick News Post: Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_bd16416b-7eb4-5dc6-8e8e-a9b317c194d2.html
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
By Danielle E. Gaines [email][email protected][/email]
Five Frederick County Council members signed a seven-page document Tuesday afternoon to explain their 2015 decision that ultimately blocked the opening of a Church of Scientology-affiliated substance abuse treatment center on Catoctin Mountain.
The written findings are required as a result of a religious discrimination case filed in Frederick County Circuit Court by Social Betterment Properties International, which acts as the church's real estate arm.
In January, Judge William R. Nicklas Jr. ruled that he could not consider the claims of religious discrimination without having the written findings of facts and conclusions from the council. The council voted 6-1 in June against a historic designation that would have allowed a Narconon center to open on the property.
The resolution signed Tuesday is similar to the county's filings in the court case, which was closed after Nicklas remanded the issue to the council.
Tuesday's resolution outlines the history of the property since Social Betterment applied for a historic designation in 2013.
Social Betterment bought the 40-acre camp south of Thurmont that September. Its aim was to open a group home for drug and alcohol abuse treatment operated by Narconon, a program based on the writings and techniques of L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology’s founder.
The Trout Run property is zoned for resource conservation, and a group home would not have been allowed. However, properties with historic designation may apply to the Board of Zoning Appeals for special-exception uses, and a group home has been among those allowed uses.
Social Betterment has alleged that the council's decision not to designate the site as historic was not based on its history, zoning and legal grounds. The council made its decision after receiving oral and written comments critical of the Church of Scientology. Social Betterment alleges that the decision was influenced by religious discrimination.
The council addressed that argument in Tuesday's resolution.
“As it has been advised by its Attorney, the Council did not consider any of the testimony or documents related to the 'Narconon' or 'Scientology' entities or programs, because it was not relevant to making a decision on whether the Applicant had established that the site met the selected criteria for placement on the County Register of Historic Places,” Tuesday's resolution read.
Five council members — Democrats M.C. Keegan-Ayer, Jerry Donald and Jessica Fitzwater and Republicans Tony Chmelik and Bud Otis — voted to sign the resolution.
[SNIP]
Follow Danielle E. Gaines on Twitter: @danielleegaines
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
Frederick News Post: Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_bd16416b-7eb4-5dc6-8e8e-a9b317c194d2.html
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Council issues Trout Run findings, nearly a year later
By Danielle E. Gaines [email][email protected][/email]
Five Frederick County Council members signed a seven-page document Tuesday afternoon to explain their 2015 decision that ultimately blocked the opening of a Church of Scientology-affiliated substance abuse treatment center on Catoctin Mountain.
The written findings are required as a result of a religious discrimination case filed in Frederick County Circuit Court by Social Betterment Properties International, which acts as the church's real estate arm.
In January, Judge William R. Nicklas Jr. ruled that he could not consider the claims of religious discrimination without having the written findings of facts and conclusions from the council. The council voted 6-1 in June against a historic designation that would have allowed a Narconon center to open on the property.
The resolution signed Tuesday is similar to the county's filings in the court case, which was closed after Nicklas remanded the issue to the council.
Tuesday's resolution outlines the history of the property since Social Betterment applied for a historic designation in 2013.
Social Betterment bought the 40-acre camp south of Thurmont that September. Its aim was to open a group home for drug and alcohol abuse treatment operated by Narconon, a program based on the writings and techniques of L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology’s founder.
The Trout Run property is zoned for resource conservation, and a group home would not have been allowed. However, properties with historic designation may apply to the Board of Zoning Appeals for special-exception uses, and a group home has been among those allowed uses.
Social Betterment has alleged that the council's decision not to designate the site as historic was not based on its history, zoning and legal grounds. The council made its decision after receiving oral and written comments critical of the Church of Scientology. Social Betterment alleges that the decision was influenced by religious discrimination.
The council addressed that argument in Tuesday's resolution.
“As it has been advised by its Attorney, the Council did not consider any of the testimony or documents related to the 'Narconon' or 'Scientology' entities or programs, because it was not relevant to making a decision on whether the Applicant had established that the site met the selected criteria for placement on the County Register of Historic Places,” Tuesday's resolution read.
Five council members — Democrats M.C. Keegan-Ayer, Jerry Donald and Jessica Fitzwater and Republicans Tony Chmelik and Bud Otis — voted to sign the resolution.
[SNIP]
Follow Danielle E. Gaines on Twitter: @danielleegaines
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
ethercat
Cat in flight
Thanks for keeping up with this, CIC.
They keep buying these expensive properties without checking on whether they're suitable legally for their purposes and then trying to bully the authorities into letting them do what they want. It makes them appear to be more interested in imposing their will than achieving their claimed end purposes, such as providing drug rehab, having a "church" for their members to congregate (as in the case with the Sandy Springs Ideal Org), etc.
They keep buying these expensive properties without checking on whether they're suitable legally for their purposes and then trying to bully the authorities into letting them do what they want. It makes them appear to be more interested in imposing their will than achieving their claimed end purposes, such as providing drug rehab, having a "church" for their members to congregate (as in the case with the Sandy Springs Ideal Org), etc.
Apparently it ain't over until the large weight-challenged person vocalizes ... Is Scientology practicing overwhelm by legal or expecting to change the outcome of the county decision?
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/continuing_coverage/trout_run/judge-to-decide-dispute-over-trout-run-records-request/article_9c24cc17-9a75-5803-9b95-242202573d51.html
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/continuing_coverage/trout_run/judge-to-decide-dispute-over-trout-run-records-request/article_9c24cc17-9a75-5803-9b95-242202573d51.html
scooter
Gold Meritorious Patron
It's a standard cult practice to seek dox via FOI law whenever they are at war with someone or some group - it's intimidatory, or so they hope.
I believe they think it's "pulling withholds" or "exposing overts" or some such.
It's been a standard practice here in Oz for anyone who seeks a refund of monies, for example.
Just more of the kindness and compassion demonstrated by Dr. Hubbard's followers in loving their enemies. It may not get them anywhere in the process of legal fights but I'm sure it makes the vertically-challenged Pope of Slimentology feel better about His bile-filled life.
Front group gets access to dox:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_929dd2ea-77fd-593d-8eae-0617741577d8.html
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...cle_929dd2ea-77fd-593d-8eae-0617741577d8.html
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