_brian
WogRevert
Hai ya and what did I expect, eh?
**
tl;dr version: Asked flag (FSO) to return the value of about $3+K of unused auditing hours of an uncompleted intensive, went through CVB form assisted by flag legal dir Sarah Heller; after about 5 months <gavel smack> CVB request DENIED </gavel smack>
**
While it was underway, I didn't want to respond or contribute to any of the recent postings about refunds/repayments, telling about what I had going on just in case it would have been used against me, if and you know what I mean. But I do thank a few members on the board that I PM'ed asking some odd questions, seeking advice for my particular scenario of unused auditing hours. Though, by the way, I did receive a repayment of advance payments, about $17K, from the Sacramento org in 2005 so I had a little experience and somewhat knew the drill.
Well..., the end of November 09 I wrote a letter to the Flag treasury sec. I sent it USPS first class mail then thought better of it, maybe thinking Flag would just lose the letter saying they never got it? and then sent it again by way of priority mail w/delivery confirmation (for tracking purposes), I also knew scn doesn't accept certified letters. Flag did get the first letter anyways, as that was the one Sarah responded to.
It was a strongly worded letter demanding that it be determined how many hours I had left/unused in my pc folder when I bought 3 intensives (as that was what the tech est. was in Sacramento from a tours D of P) of *Flag only**case cracking* auditing (which ended up being Life Repair and objectives = WTF, Flag only?!? and which I already did twice prior at my mission then org and actually got minimal but better results then than at flag
), which I then arrived at flag in 1996 (of course they tried to get $50K 
more from me from a new tech est. of the same things I told the flag D of P) and then only used just over 2 intensives. I was certain that I some accommodation $ left on account also to be determined.
I insisted on having returned or being repaid the $ value balance of all of the hours undelivered, as I considered or contended that the value of these unused individual hours to be the same as *advance payments* on account. I also mentioned I would not do a CVB form as there was nothing that was going to correct or alter my determination. I gave them the usual 7 day time frame to pay up and closed the letter with a: "Delaying and failure to comply with this demand will result in actions on my part that may be of "PR" difficulties for the Church of Scientology", statement.
There was a little more to my letter, but because it was considered a *threat*, it ended up with the flag legal dir Sarah Heller and she emailed me saying "I do not correspond regarding such matters by e-mail. Do you have a fax machine?" and then she sent a certified letter pertaining to my letter, I had given my PO Box and email addy to correspond with.
Initially the good news was that I indeed had $278.35 of unused accommodations funds Sarah was willing to return to me in exchange for signing the ole release, waiver and writ of expulsion form. But she stressed she would attempt to assist me, but I "must be willing to listen to what she has to say and drop my needless antagonism". In a return email, I appolozied for my strong demands and 'toned' down my communications being as friendly (I think) as I could.
Also in the letter she explained that; "...you signed enrollment forms which included information on how to go about getting your donations returned and under what circumstances you could do so. In neither case is baseless threats required, and in fact you agreed in your enrollment forms that if you got third parties involved, you forfeit your request. That is in addition to the fact that we have no legal obligation to return any funds, but do so based on Church policy." On the enrollment form at some point later I asked for a copy of the one I signed and noticed that flag didn't sign it to indicate I was approved to be accepted for services, and I looked into (PM'ed a couple people) what that might mean, but didn't take it much farther.
Over the next few months, we proceeded to exchange about 50
email correspondences (half each way), a couple faxes and a few more certified letters, lol, from flag, and a couple more priority mail w/delivery confirmation from me to Sarah. There was some time delays due to me mulling over my next actions or communications all through our exchanges, a couple times she would email and ask - waz sup, and I did the same when I didn't hear back after about a week or so. There were also a couple of misunderstandings (on her part) that I had to re explain and smooth over with her to keep it going.
So.., I first declined the offer of signing the release/waiver and being paid only the accommodations funds on account to "settle all claims" yada blah blah.
I tried a couple different angles trying to make my case and argued over the lrh *Refund/Repayment* policies, I know what the policies say about starting or finishing a service and the 3 month rule, but I still contended my stance on the value of each individual auditing hour as the same as having money on account and trying to get the money returned as a *repayment*, Sarah wasn't buying it and month after month was going by.
After being told nothing else could be done and even though I originally said that I wouldn't do the CVB form, at first because I was arguing my hours were advance payments and basically because I wasn't going to go to flag to go through the next to impossible steps one has to do with each *terminal* and especially the step of *handling* me with what ever actions to try to get me to drop my request, things worked its way around and I said to go ahead and do the CVB form and Sarah said she would do the steps needed to be done at flag.
Sarah got the terminals on the routing form to provide the information needed on the CVB form and then sent me the copy (besides the accommodations, it was determined I had 8 1/4 hours of the intensive unused/undelivered, a little less but close to what I remembered) and then all I had to do was the steps I could do here; mark refused on the chaplain handling step 2.a., write out the statements and notarize step 2.e.1. initial them and send it back and she would send it on to the CVB. She also asked me to write a statement ("without any unnecessary additives, threats, etc.") as to why I believe I should be given the value for the hours back as it was not per policy, so I did.
I mailed back the form a few weeks ago and last Wednesday, Sarah emailed me saying the CVB request was denied, and did I still want to receive the accommodations funds? All I had to do was sign the release/waiver she sent earlier if I still had it or she'd send a new one.
I had reserved hopes of getting a little of my costly and wasted Flag money back, and certainly could use it for medical needs. And even though a couple hundred $ is better than nothing, I haven't answered back yet.
When I thought it was dead months ago, just before I said to do the CVB form, I told Sarah that I had started writing up a letter, which I had, to mail to different Government agencies, IRS, US Attorney General, State AG, BBB, etc. explaining the *rip off* policies of a so called church that *sells* it's *services* the way it does, but didn't finish the letter, but Sarah said she's dealt with the Gov. before and it's never resulted in anyone getting a return any faster and mostly delays it more, etc.
But now I'm maybe considering (though I'm pretty mentally exhausted to try and continue) doing a writeup of my experience and sending it, besides the Government agencies mentioned, to a few choice, or any and everyone, interested media outlets to add to the exposé subject matter lately being published or aired regarding the cult of $cientology. And maybe there are others who are in the same boat of only using partial intensives or not being able to finish an expensive course and then pass up the 3 month *refund* rule when one finds they no longer wish to participate as a member of the church, etc. and then to have to just write a few thousand $ off because a scamming criminal organization has a *policy* saying your money is worth nothing if you only use one minute (could happen) of an $5+K intensive and then can't complete it and 3 months or more later and one wants to move on.
I had a lot more to rant about but hopefully my information is insightful or helpful.
anyways.
Brian
**
tl;dr version: Asked flag (FSO) to return the value of about $3+K of unused auditing hours of an uncompleted intensive, went through CVB form assisted by flag legal dir Sarah Heller; after about 5 months <gavel smack> CVB request DENIED </gavel smack>
**
While it was underway, I didn't want to respond or contribute to any of the recent postings about refunds/repayments, telling about what I had going on just in case it would have been used against me, if and you know what I mean. But I do thank a few members on the board that I PM'ed asking some odd questions, seeking advice for my particular scenario of unused auditing hours. Though, by the way, I did receive a repayment of advance payments, about $17K, from the Sacramento org in 2005 so I had a little experience and somewhat knew the drill.
Well..., the end of November 09 I wrote a letter to the Flag treasury sec. I sent it USPS first class mail then thought better of it, maybe thinking Flag would just lose the letter saying they never got it? and then sent it again by way of priority mail w/delivery confirmation (for tracking purposes), I also knew scn doesn't accept certified letters. Flag did get the first letter anyways, as that was the one Sarah responded to.
It was a strongly worded letter demanding that it be determined how many hours I had left/unused in my pc folder when I bought 3 intensives (as that was what the tech est. was in Sacramento from a tours D of P) of *Flag only**case cracking* auditing (which ended up being Life Repair and objectives = WTF, Flag only?!? and which I already did twice prior at my mission then org and actually got minimal but better results then than at flag
), which I then arrived at flag in 1996 (of course they tried to get $50K more from me from a new tech est. of the same things I told the flag D of P) and then only used just over 2 intensives. I was certain that I some accommodation $ left on account also to be determined. I insisted on having returned or being repaid the $ value balance of all of the hours undelivered, as I considered or contended that the value of these unused individual hours to be the same as *advance payments* on account. I also mentioned I would not do a CVB form as there was nothing that was going to correct or alter my determination. I gave them the usual 7 day time frame to pay up and closed the letter with a: "Delaying and failure to comply with this demand will result in actions on my part that may be of "PR" difficulties for the Church of Scientology", statement.
There was a little more to my letter, but because it was considered a *threat*, it ended up with the flag legal dir Sarah Heller and she emailed me saying "I do not correspond regarding such matters by e-mail. Do you have a fax machine?" and then she sent a certified letter pertaining to my letter, I had given my PO Box and email addy to correspond with.
Initially the good news was that I indeed had $278.35 of unused accommodations funds Sarah was willing to return to me in exchange for signing the ole release, waiver and writ of expulsion form. But she stressed she would attempt to assist me, but I "must be willing to listen to what she has to say and drop my needless antagonism". In a return email, I appolozied for my strong demands and 'toned' down my communications being as friendly (I think) as I could.
Also in the letter she explained that; "...you signed enrollment forms which included information on how to go about getting your donations returned and under what circumstances you could do so. In neither case is baseless threats required, and in fact you agreed in your enrollment forms that if you got third parties involved, you forfeit your request. That is in addition to the fact that we have no legal obligation to return any funds, but do so based on Church policy." On the enrollment form at some point later I asked for a copy of the one I signed and noticed that flag didn't sign it to indicate I was approved to be accepted for services, and I looked into (PM'ed a couple people) what that might mean, but didn't take it much farther.
Over the next few months, we proceeded to exchange about 50
email correspondences (half each way), a couple faxes and a few more certified letters, lol, from flag, and a couple more priority mail w/delivery confirmation from me to Sarah. There was some time delays due to me mulling over my next actions or communications all through our exchanges, a couple times she would email and ask - waz sup, and I did the same when I didn't hear back after about a week or so. There were also a couple of misunderstandings (on her part) that I had to re explain and smooth over with her to keep it going.So.., I first declined the offer of signing the release/waiver and being paid only the accommodations funds on account to "settle all claims" yada blah blah.
I tried a couple different angles trying to make my case and argued over the lrh *Refund/Repayment* policies, I know what the policies say about starting or finishing a service and the 3 month rule, but I still contended my stance on the value of each individual auditing hour as the same as having money on account and trying to get the money returned as a *repayment*, Sarah wasn't buying it and month after month was going by.
After being told nothing else could be done and even though I originally said that I wouldn't do the CVB form, at first because I was arguing my hours were advance payments and basically because I wasn't going to go to flag to go through the next to impossible steps one has to do with each *terminal* and especially the step of *handling* me with what ever actions to try to get me to drop my request, things worked its way around and I said to go ahead and do the CVB form and Sarah said she would do the steps needed to be done at flag.
Sarah got the terminals on the routing form to provide the information needed on the CVB form and then sent me the copy (besides the accommodations, it was determined I had 8 1/4 hours of the intensive unused/undelivered, a little less but close to what I remembered) and then all I had to do was the steps I could do here; mark refused on the chaplain handling step 2.a., write out the statements and notarize step 2.e.1. initial them and send it back and she would send it on to the CVB. She also asked me to write a statement ("without any unnecessary additives, threats, etc.") as to why I believe I should be given the value for the hours back as it was not per policy, so I did.
I mailed back the form a few weeks ago and last Wednesday, Sarah emailed me saying the CVB request was denied, and did I still want to receive the accommodations funds? All I had to do was sign the release/waiver she sent earlier if I still had it or she'd send a new one.
I had reserved hopes of getting a little of my costly and wasted Flag money back, and certainly could use it for medical needs. And even though a couple hundred $ is better than nothing, I haven't answered back yet.
When I thought it was dead months ago, just before I said to do the CVB form, I told Sarah that I had started writing up a letter, which I had, to mail to different Government agencies, IRS, US Attorney General, State AG, BBB, etc. explaining the *rip off* policies of a so called church that *sells* it's *services* the way it does, but didn't finish the letter, but Sarah said she's dealt with the Gov. before and it's never resulted in anyone getting a return any faster and mostly delays it more, etc.
But now I'm maybe considering (though I'm pretty mentally exhausted to try and continue) doing a writeup of my experience and sending it, besides the Government agencies mentioned, to a few choice, or any and everyone, interested media outlets to add to the exposé subject matter lately being published or aired regarding the cult of $cientology. And maybe there are others who are in the same boat of only using partial intensives or not being able to finish an expensive course and then pass up the 3 month *refund* rule when one finds they no longer wish to participate as a member of the church, etc. and then to have to just write a few thousand $ off because a scamming criminal organization has a *policy* saying your money is worth nothing if you only use one minute (could happen) of an $5+K intensive and then can't complete it and 3 months or more later and one wants to move on.
I had a lot more to rant about but hopefully my information is insightful or helpful.
anyways. Brian
but;
