What's new

Turning point: Change does not equal Improvement...

thetaCannon

Patron
As I read people's testimonies here about Freezone auditing or their experiences with the Bridge, I find myself more and more convinced that the end result of Scientology and Dianetics is not a desirable one.

At first, I would scan "believer" posts for traces of rare wisdom that might just reveal Scientology's cosmic paradigm to be useful after all. Just the opposite, I now find myself skipping over posts by believers because they spout such utterly pointless SHIT!

So, I want to say a big THANK YOU to ESMB for getting me to the point where I finally feel the possibility of being cured of L. Ron Hubbard's godly sway.

Yes, I do still find it "interesting" that auditing processes "work" in the sense that they give temporary relief and have novel mental effects... and I still think they warrant being distilled out into a set of proper experiments to see what exactly is happening and why.

But reading so many people credulously spout these fractured and far-fetched statements (so many of them conflicting, no less) about pre-MEST memories and GPMs and whatever else, is all doing a very effective job of curing me of what little faith I had in Scientology's ability to IMPROVE rather than just CHANGE people. Truly, they all just sound like a bunch of babbling idiots.

And so, I reach the conclusion that where Scientology is involved, change really does not equal improvement. And that's really thanks to ESMB moreso than any anti-COS website, book or blog.

I still struggle at times because I actually really love The New Grammar and Scientology 8-80, and find a lot of Hubbard's practical wisdom to be really useful (or at least instructive on what an asshole might do, in case you want to avoid that).

But a few gems is not enough to excuse the massive rip-off and mind mushing bullshit that makes up the rest of his life's work.

Thanks again to all the very sane and lucid people who post here and make the believers look like insufferable wankers.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's pretty obvious isn't it. If Scientology made better people, the shit that goes on in Scientology just wouldn't go on. :thumbsup:
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
No, not desireable IMHO

Nicely put, thetaCannon.

I agree that the overall changes that occur in one are not desirable. I think the freezoneers try to carve out the 'good' scio from the 'bad' and just use the good. They'll audit but disregard the SP/PTS/ethics materials. They'll study the ARC/KRC/axiom stuff and disregard the RPF, the RPF's RPF, disconnection and fair game.

I don't think you can't pick and choose without eventually falling into the trap and turning off your critical thinking. Once you do that you're lost. (I lost myself once. Yep, got out of scio and found myself. Now I keep myself in a safe place so I don't lose myself again. :D )

If you ever become an SO member, the change is most assuredly bad. Case in point: When a parent can start out as a nurturer to his children and end up virtually abandoning them to daycare. Or moving to another state/country and leaving his underage children to be raised by others, then how can you say they changed for the better?
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
I also wonder what an improved spiritual being should be like, and I am often disappointed by looking at some OTs. I've come to believe that the great OTs I know would have been great people even without walking to the top of the Scientology Bridge.

Because in Scientologists are trained to credit Scientology for every good and blame themselves for all the bad, not to mention the mandatory Success Stories they must write to move ahead, I don't trust personal accounts of how great the results are or the "without Scientology I would be dead" statements. I tend to observe Scientologists QOL (Quality of Life) compared to non Scientologists QOL, and amongst my friends Scientologists (those still in the church) are not winning.

That said, I personally think there are benefits that can be taken from scientology philosophy, scientology principles and auditing out of the church, as well as in other systems or therapies.
 
Last edited:

Terril park

Sponsor
As I read people's testimonies here about Freezone auditing or their experiences with the Bridge, I find myself more and more convinced that the end result of Scientology and Dianetics is not a desirable one.

At first, I would scan "believer" posts for traces of rare wisdom that might just reveal Scientology's cosmic paradigm to be useful after all. Just the opposite, I now find myself skipping over posts by believers because they spout such utterly pointless SHIT!

So, I want to say a big THANK YOU to ESMB for getting me to the point where I finally feel the possibility of being cured of L. Ron Hubbard's godly sway.

Yes, I do still find it "interesting" that auditing processes "work" in the sense that they give temporary relief and have novel mental effects... and I still think they warrant being distilled out into a set of proper experiments to see what exactly is happening and why.

But reading so many people credulously spout these fractured and far-fetched statements (so many of them conflicting, no less) about pre-MEST memories and GPMs and whatever else, is all doing a very effective job of curing me of what little faith I had in Scientology's ability to IMPROVE rather than just CHANGE people. Truly, they all just sound like a bunch of babbling idiots.

And so, I reach the conclusion that where Scientology is involved, change really does not equal improvement. And that's really thanks to ESMB moreso than any anti-COS website, book or blog.

I still struggle at times because I actually really love The New Grammar and Scientology 8-80, and find a lot of Hubbard's practical wisdom to be really useful (or at least instructive on what an asshole might do, in case you want to avoid that).

But a few gems is not enough to excuse the massive rip-off and mind mushing bullshit that makes up the rest of his life's work.

Thanks again to all the very sane and lucid people who post here and make the believers look like insufferable wankers.

Well I'm the guy usually promoting the insufferable wankers. Indeed, I
guess, I'm even one myself. :)

Peoples success stories in general are not philosophical mystical treatises.
Mostly anyway. They try their best to describe the inneffable. Like most
who attempt that they are not too successful.

Another way to look at this is to read the stories of those who no
longer wish further auditing in COS or FZ yet still talk of the gains from the subject.

Like you.

You like 8-80? You're lost man. :)

PS or women.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
I have proof that overall, Scientology does Not work. The proof is DM is in charge of the "church".
 
Top