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University Paper

Discussion in 'Welcome, Media People and Researchers, Ask Here fo' started by DylanChambers, May 21, 2019.

  1. DylanChambers

    DylanChambers New Member

    Hi, guys, I'm a student from Portland State University and I'm working on a research paper. The primary objective of my paper is to learn more about what Scientology really is away from social stigma. I would very much like to interview somebody who would be able to tell me about their experiences and beliefs regarding Scientology. If you would like I can keep all names, and personal information 100% anonymous. If you are interested please just let me know and we can work out an interview situation that you feel 100% comfortable with.
     
  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

  3. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    You could do it right here on this forum and thread.
     
    Voodoo and Type4_PTS like this.
  4. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's a cult, operating as a business and masquerading as a religion.
     
  5. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I don't understand "away from social stigma". My thoughts are:

    You're not going to learn what Scientology really is from just one person. One person here might be very bitter and have rejected everything to do with it; another might still be in its thrall to some extent and think it's mostly wonderful but it got taken over by an evil man and hence became corrupt; one might have been involved for 30 or 60 years; one might only have surface experience; et cetera.

    If it fits in with your parameters you might want to post a list of questions (6-10 -ish). You may well find several people here willing to answer them. If someone gives non-representative answers they'll get jumped on by the rest of us, so you can be fairly well assured you're getting accurate enough information in general.

    Paul
     
    Voodoo likes this.
  6. DylanChambers

    DylanChambers New Member

    Hi guys, I decided to take your advice and post the questions here:

    How did you first get involved with the church?
    How often have/did you felt segregated because of the public view of Scientology?
    What are your feelings about the claim that Scientology is a "cult"?
    While in the church did you face judgment from Christians, Muslims, or others from "mainstream" religions? If so please explain how you felt or what events happened?
    Several advocate groups exist that firmly believe Scientology should be banned. What is your opinion on these advocates?
    What is your view on religion?
    Why do you believe Scientology faces more criticism than other "intense" or "flashy" religions such as Mormonism, Catholicism, etc?
    If you could change how the public sees Scientology, what would you change?
    Is Scientology just like any other religion?
    Were you raised into Scientology or did you find Scientology later in life?
     
  7. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    1) I was a 16 year old runaway and misled to believe Scientology was a church and would help me. Instead, they kept me there without parental consent, then when my mother refused consent, pushed me to disconnect. They made my family relationships worse than ever.

    2) Never. I was on staff for 9 years and was not allowed to watch television and anything in the news about Scientology was banned and local articles taken out of newspapers, so I lived in a bubble world where I had no idea what the public view of Scientology was. Around 1982, they even took all our personally-owned televisions out of the dorm rooms one day when we were working and locked them away from us, not that we ever had much time for watching television, but still...

    3) Yes, it's a cult. It has every characteristic of cults, without fail. Of course it's a cult.

    4) No.

    5) Scientology is a strong-arm mafia style criminal organization allowed to make outrageous, false claims of providing benefits that don't exist because it masquerades as a church. It is a bane to society and should be taxed and forced to disclose all information and pay business wages, then people can sue it for all its abuses and get it to crumble and fold like any other scam. Banned isn't really the right word. It should be exposed for what it is and completely destroyed.

    6) Religion is basically supposed to appeal to the goodness of people, and help people in a spiritual way so that they can live better lives. Religions are given tax exemption because it is supposed to have a charitable emphasis and help those in need. Scientology's god is greed, the same god as corporate CEO's. With a definition as loose as the one used for Scientology, anything you do for profit can be a religion, but especially if it's a scam you made up with no product at all. In Scientology, lying is a key tenet of the religion.

    7) Because it is a criminal organization and the others are churches. They may have their faults, they might be weird, but they are still churches.

    8) I would make sure the true information about the destructiveness of Scientology was translated into every country and that Leah Remini's show aired in their language so that Scientology would no longer be able to dupe people from countries like Taiwan, Russia and South Korea and stop their human trafficking there.

    9) No. It isn't religious at all and its Founder was quite clear that it was a mental health therapy that failed to work. It is taxed in many countries and not considered a religion and the US should do the same. Scientology is simply a scam and a real estate pyramid scheme using church status so it doesn't have to pay wages or taxes and can use strongarm tactics under the religious veil.

    10) As I said in #1, I was a runaway. Nobody in my family was in it and my mother refused permission, too (not that the cult cared about that... family isn't important in Scientology.)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  8. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  9. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Thank-you Dylan for doing this. Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

    I was offered a free personality test while walking down Newbury Street in Boston back in 1979. Then bought some books and a course.
    Some months later I joined staff and was on staff almost the entire time I was involved (10 years).

    I felt a bit isolated throughout my entire time in Scientology and felt I had damaged my relationships with friends and family, but also felt that the work I was doing was so important I needed to keep doing it.

    Absolutely it is a cult, an extremely destructive one at that, which is like a cancer on society.
    It recruits members by way of deception, sells its services utilizing marketing fraud, controls its members by indoctrinating them into a false reality, putting them into a mental prison which they are led to build themselves, and keeps them in a bubble, tightly controlling the information they are allowed to view. Some members are even held by physical force and/or by confiscating their passports.

    I didn't really interact with people very much from other religions. I was just around Scientologists 98% of the time.

    If people from other religions came into our "church" we would assure them that Scientology was compatible with their religion, despite that being a lie.

    I don't feel necessarily that it should be banned, but do feel that the many laws they violate need to be enforced, and that they need to lose any religious status that the government confers upon them, as they are not truly a religion IMO, rather they pretend to be one in order to escape paying taxes a normal business would pay, plus they have other advantages due to the First Amendment which they utilize to exploit and abuse their own members.

    Additionally, all schools need to prepare their students to recognize cults and deal with them when confronted with a cult recruiter.

    In Scientology it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to find out what their true beliefs are which isn't true with any genuine religion.

    And while some people in other religions suffer abuse or have been the victim of a sexual or other crime, that is the exception to the rule. Whereas in Scientology, ALL members are abused, victimized by marketing fraud, lied to, and treated badly in other ways as well.

    I would want them to see it for the criminally abusive mafia-like organization it is.

    No, it's unlike any other religion for the reasons I gave above.

    I found it at age 21.
     
  10. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor


    How did you first get involved with the church? Like Guano I read Dianetics and called the number


    How often have/did you felt segregated because of the public view of Scientology? I never felt segregated because of public view because I wasn't aware of public view. I often wondered why people had a negative reaction to it until I was in it for some time and then understood why.


    What are your feelings about the claim that Scientology is a "cult"? It is a cult. Cults are mind control but Scientology is particularly adept at mind control because they get you to think you can regain lost abilities through their technology. it takes some time for people to realize they have been scammed because they have ethics technology to blame your inability to recover abilities is because you have ethics situations and won't get gains unless you have flawless ethics which is impossible in Scientology because they call innocent acts crimes.


    While in the church did you face judgment from Christians, Muslims, or others from "mainstream" religions? If so please explain how you felt or what events happened? I had no contact with other religious ideologies when in Scientology. Scientology itself is isolation from the world because you are taught everyone is blinded to the trap they are in and will fight you to stay in the trap called life on earth.


    Several advocate groups exist that firmly believe Scientology should be banned. What is your opinion on these advocates?
    What is your view on religion? I agree with guano on this. if you ban it people will seek it out out of curiosity. I would like them to have to show that they can achieve the results they claim. if they had to prove it worked, they would be folding shop in 2 months like any exposed con would.


    Why do you believe Scientology faces more criticism than other "intense" or "flashy" religions such as Mormonism, Catholicism, etc? Because they are more vicious and devious than other religions and use unethical methods on their former parishioners. they go out of their way to punish people, one way or another, for leaving. They are aggressive at retrieving people who leave or vilifying those who won't go back. they have exact training for what to do when someone leaves and they employ that technology to whatever degree they feel they need to. It can get extreme beyond believable and usually only someone who has experienced it themselves will believe or understand what they do.


    If you could change how the public sees Scientology, what would you change? As I said above, force them to prove their technology works and it all falls apart, just like any other false religion.


    Is Scientology just like any other religion? No, they have written materials that they train people in. Some of it is for everyone and some of it is for select people but all of these materials are written and designed to protect Scientology and to keep its secrets. They also have a tool that acts like a lie detector that, even if not 100% effective, is enough to get people to confess to things they did do and things they didn't do. It all depends on the skills of one using one as to how much they can manipulate you with one but it is unique to Scientology because it can be used on anyone from off the street to higher levels to get the information they want from you.

    Were you raised into Scientology or did you find Scientology later in life? later
     
  11. screamer2

    screamer2 Idiot Bastardson

    ------------------
    How did you first get involved with the church?
    It's not a church. It's a cult.
    But I first got involved with the cult accidently. I was throwing frisbie in a national park back in the 1960's and a fierce wind came up and caught the frisbie and sailed it up through the trees out of sight. I ran after it and soon I became lost. After some time, I came to a clearing and there, sitting in a tight group around a small campfire was a bunch of clams talking about OT stuff. They invited me to join them. Soon thereafter I decided that I would be better at this OT stuff than they were and that's how I got involved.
    ----------------
    How often have/did you felt segregated because of the public view of Scientology?
    Three times.
    ------------------
    What are your feelings about the claim that Scientology is a "cult"?
    It's not a claim, it's a fact. Scientology is a cult. It is the most cult-like cult of all cults. It is the definitive cult.
    -------------------------
    While in the church did you face judgment from Christians, Muslims, or others from "mainstream" religions? If so please explain how you felt or what events happened?
    No. I was never allowed to interact with mainstream outside others while I was a clam.
    -----------------
    Several advocate groups exist that firmly believe Scientology should be banned. What is your opinion on these advocates?
    These advocates should be banned along with their groups. Scientology should also be banned.
    Scientology requires situational OpTerm* to exist. Remove the OpTerm and the cult will dissolve like the wicked witch in the wizard of oz movie when Dorothy threw water on her.
    ---------------
    What is your view on religion?
    My view is roughly the same view that Jesus obviously had when he said to Mary Magdalene while hanging on the cross, "Mary, I can see your house from here."
    --------------------------
    Why do you believe Scientology faces more criticism than other "intense" or "flashy" religions such as Mormonism, Catholicism, etc?
    Don't try to tell me what I believe. I refuse to answer this question and fart in your general direction.
    ---------------------------
    If you could change how the public sees Scientology, what would you change?
    I would insert semicolons at random into all their published materials.
    -------------------------
    Is Scientology just like any other religion?
    Scientology is not a religion.
    ---------------------------
    Were you raised into Scientology or did you find Scientology later in life?
    Maybe.
     
  12. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    1. I was a nineteen year old 'seeker', and found Scientology on my own, after having seen the word referenced in a book.

    2. I never felt segregated by the outside world. We Scientologists tended to self segregate.

    3. The organization IS a cult. Tens of thousands of insider stories attest to that.

    4. I never faced judgement from those of other faiths because I never made it a practice of discussing my religious views with non-Scientologists.

    5. I believe in the free exercise of religion, as long as such practices are not harmful to others. If Scientologists can practice their religion without harming others, then I say no, I am not in favor of banning it.

    6. In theory, I find nothing wrong with adhering to a philosophy that answers the questions of life and existence for oneself and the broader world. It's only when organizations and whole cultural subsets are raised up around such belief systems, that we see the ugly head of fundamentalist fanaticism arise.

    7. I'm not sure that Scientology receives more criticism than Mormonism or Catholicism. I see tons of articles that are critical of the Ms and the RCs.

    8. The church fully deserves the reputation it now has. Their public relations have only one direction they can go, and that's up, but that's not going to happen as long as Miscavige is running things. Until he's gone, I hope they maintain the wretched reputation they have with the public.

    9. Yes and no. Scientology doesn't worship a creator god, but it does contain many answers to life's big questions, as well as lessons and tools for everyday living, just like other religions.

    10. As above, I discovered Scn when I was nineteen.
     
  13. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    How did you first get involved with the church?
    At a turning point in my life. Walked in off the street to do a communication course, liked it, stayed.

    How often have/did you felt segregated because of the public view of Scientology?
    While I was on staff (Sea Org) I felt aloof and superior all the time because I was "in the know" and they weren't.

    What are your feelings about the claim that Scientology is a "cult"?
    Well, it is. It ticks all the boxes. I'm a guy and don't really feel anything about this fact.

    While in the church did you face judgment from Christians, Muslims, or others from "mainstream" religions?
    Unknown. I was in the Sea Org, insulated from the outside world to much of an extent so never spoke in depth to outsiders.

    If so please explain how you felt or what events happened?
    Not applicable.

    Several advocate groups exist that firmly believe Scientology should be banned. What is your opinion on these advocates?
    The texts/recordings should be allowed to exist: I'm not in favour of book-burning. The 501 (c) status should be rescinded as it is not appropriate, then the CofS would rapidly go broke and cease to function from natural market forces not authoritarian ones.

    What is your view on religion?
    Organized religion tends to be a tool of the powers that be. But religion has had a civilizing influence, mainly long ago. Man does have a spiritual nature, which various religions address to some extent, well or badly.

    Why do you believe Scientology faces more criticism than other "intense" or "flashy" religions such as Mormonism, Catholicism, etc?
    Far more lies, criminality, and destructive behaviour like disconnection actively enforced on customers.

    If you could change how the public sees Scientology, what would you change?
    Sunshine disinfects. Open it all up (refer to The Scientological Onion, https://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html).

    Is Scientology just like any other religion?
    :roflmao:

    Were you raised into Scientology or did you find Scientology later in life?
    Started as adult, age 22.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  14. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I was born into it.
    Quite a lot. There is an ongoing "them vs us" mentality going on. Moreover, before the internet age it was quite easy for the church to simply cut its members off from the media. From my own times as an adult I remember times when I was outside in civilian garb and I usually didn't try to let people know I'm a scientologists.
    Scientology is a cult, a church and a con. It is all these things at the same time wraped into one package.
    As a teenager I used to act as a recruiter (not my ideal career path, but I did as I was told) in an area that was mostly Christian. I seen all sorts of reactions. From curious: "Please tell me more", through "'That's not what I believe, but I have no problem with you", through "Get lost", ending with the usual combination of: "You are going to hell / go f#*k yourself / God will punish you / I hope you die of AIDS".
    Violence was rare, though I remember being attacked at least once. I was talking to someone, then a different guycame up to me from behind, punched me in the head and the ran away.

    Later on I got promoted to a position that was almost entirely "internal".
    I believe that the tax-exemption should be lifted. I believe the US authorities should launch a more thorough investigation of "Church of scientology international, Inc." and possibly have it dissolved if found guilty of ccriminal activities.

    I do not believe Hubbard's books should be banned. I do not believe that individuals outside the church should be banned from engaging in auditing or other scientology practices. The focus should on pursuing the crimes and human rights abuses of CSI and its other legal entities. Not on thought-policing the public.
    I do not find it rational to speak about "religion in general". I can evaluate a specific religion and its actions in a specific place and a specific time period. I wouldn't put all religions into one bag.

    Religions vary greatly from one another. They have many benefits, but also many dangers, negative influences and in extreme cases can be used to promote violence, criminal activity and disruption of society.
    Certainly more than Catholicism or other mainstream Christian religions - and for good reasons.

    Amongst the public not intimately familiar with scientology, I've heard a lot of very negative views about Mormonism or Jehova's witnesses, usually more negative than the opinions on Scientology.
    Most people's view on scientology is: "Oh, it is a fake religion for rich Hollywood people to drain them from money." Its not seen as a widespread danger to "ordinary people" in the same way Mormonism is.

    I had a fun chat with a co-worker (who had no idea I was ever a scientologist) and I once jokingly told her: "That's as likely as me joining scientology", to which she at once replied: "They would not accept you in the first place, even if you tried. They just want rich and famous people like Tom Cruise"
    I would de-emphasize the "space opera/UFO cult" elements, as these play little role in the daily life of scientologists (most did not even reach that level of knowledge yet).

    I would emphasize instead the psychological control techniques and the confess-your-sins inducing practices. “Confessionals”, “Security Checks”, “Overt/Withhold Writeups” and “False Purpose Rundowns”.

    I would also stress the stories of regular people rather than just Cruise and Travolta.
    It has elements of christian beliefs such as a clergy/monastic order and confession of sins. It has elements of dharmic religions, such as the belief in reincarnation and meditation practices.
    But, it does not offer its teaching for free and stresses financial contributions and payments more than any other religion I have seen. It is very money-grubbing to its members, while being very penny-pinching to its clergy and staff.

    It also has the negative elements in common with cults, such as opressive social control, isolation of members from the public and manipulation through guilt.
    Was raised in it.



    Suggestions to you:
    Combine the first and last question, doesn't make sense to have them separate. I'm surprised your thesis supervisor didn't notice this.

    If its an academic paper, rather than just some grade exercise for a single class, then I would advise against using data with no IP checks.
    Possible Trolls and church-insiders may spoil your results.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  15. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    Okely dokely - guess we can take that at face value, eh?

    It does indeed sound like a nonstigma related question.
    OOOOOOOOOOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOO - we've hit on the topic of stigmatization right in the SECOND QUESTION. Darn - we seemed to be doing so well with the first.
    DRATS. CURSES. The third question stays right in the rut of stigmatization again!
    What. AND THE FOURTH???
    Oh dear. The fifth also, is centered on the issue of stigmatization.
    YIPEEE! We seem to be asking a question here that is indeed "away" from the stigmatization.
    And . . . we're back to the rut.
    Depending on how the answering party treats this question, it is centrally focused on the stigmatizing issues or not, provided the answerer doesn't want it to be.
    Hmmmmmm . . . if NOT seems like maybe it is . . . um . . . stigmatized?
    What a relief that you managed at least THREE out of TEN questions that clearly sought factual answers not revolving around stigmatization points - pro and con.

    Back in another century we debated whether "New J" is really just an "attention whoring" (to use modern slang) exercise that can be profitable and gratifying to the "new journalist". If so, we should probably stick with traditional journalistic emphasis on seeking the facts and accuracy. How we go about using words carefully is essential to that traditional journalism.

    Here it seems you wish to lull the reader into trusting you as you wish to move away from stigmatizing issues and just seek facts. Then you make stigmatizing issues the dominant topic of discussion. I'm guessing you are a New J adherent.