Unofficial Official statement of Anon's stance on Tory.

[Zinjifar]

Well if they do they're just misinformed, though. The term may be coined through Hubbard's shibboleth but the action is as old as the hills... or at least as old as the desire to own somebody else's hill.

The only thing unique about Ron's 'Third Party Tech' is that He came up with the brain-fried law that behind every argument there must *be* a 'Third Party'.

And, then adopted what he 'warned' against as a 'religious' bludgeon to attack His 'enemies'.

Poisoning the well as sacrament; how quaint

Zinj

 

[alex]

Well if they do they're just misinformed, though. The term may be coined through Hubbard's shibboleth but the action is as old as the hills... or at least as old as the desire to own somebody else's hill.

But isnt that the crux of the problem? We are all misinformed. Nobody literally knows everything, But it seems we all act like we do!

It is the fact of this that allows symbols to be installed, individually, culturally, maybe even geneticly, that can then be used to manipulate us.

It does not matter what is true or not, but how we are pushed and pulled by what we think.

alex

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I've got an idea!

Why don't we just let people be who they are and if we disagree with their viewpoint then we argue the viewpoint. (I could also improve on this)

Well, that would be great. But unfortunately, people being people, some of them have all sorts of ideas about the shortcomings of others to the point where all sorts of stuff gets written to and about those other people.

It never works out, though. One really does have to let people be who they are. Unfortunately, not everyone does that.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Asagai,

I think we're on the same page on this. Let's hope to see lots of dissent from within CofS and from the outside of it as well.

 

[Escalus]

But isnt that the crux of the problem? We are all misinformed. Nobody literally knows everything, But it seems we all act like we do!

It is the fact of this that allows symbols to be installed, individually, culturally, maybe even geneticly, that can then be used to manipulate us.

It does not matter what is true or not, but how we are pushed and pulled by what we think.

alex

I'm going to have to call logical fallacy on that one alex. We are all misinformed about some stuff and we are all informed about some stuff and I'd say - just from conjecture - that it's impossible for someone to know "everything" anyway. Being pushed and pulled by what we think has its shades and is not an absolute. If we've learned anything it is also that a what we think can also be pushed and pulled by what we do. It's generally know by terms such as "justification" or "making excuses" after the fact.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

But isnt that the crux of the problem? We are all misinformed. Nobody literally knows everything, But it seems we all act like we do!

It is the fact of this that allows symbols to be installed, individually, culturally, maybe even geneticly, that can then be used to manipulate us.

It does not matter what is true or not, but how we are pushed and pulled by what we think.

alex

I recognize the basics of scientology! That you are a no good ignorant dweeb, however explained. A hypnotized 'wog' being pushed around by advertising and irresponsible press. Misunderstoods, engrams, implants, service fac's, demon cirquits... And BTW, your body is disposable.. Organic wastebin please.. Or you'll be fined!

As alex points out it seems the whole thing began when OSA third-partied (remember third party tech?) her and the TD. If that's what happened then, my God Tory can't you see your own failing in this? LETTING OSA do that to you when everyone who was ever in knows about how "third party" works?

But I'm of a mind to say that the only thing OSA can or could do now is to egg it on further... but to what end? As I said before, nothing has stopped happening. Aug 16 looks to be as ready to go as anything, participation of the OG or critics notwithstanding. There or not - doesn't matter - it still goes on. People are funneling their proofs of harassment at the hands of the cult to the FBI in one big lump even as we speak.

To illustrate the idea that this Tory Tommy thing - even IF OSA inspired - has zero to do with anything I posted this at enturb...
Note To Lurking Scientologists

For the sake of argument, saying they were behind it all - if this dust up was an OSA operation... so what? Really? It didn't do anything but fill up discussion boards. the rickroll goes on regardless.

Hah! - That was a wonderful peptalk there on Enturb Escalus! - I'm all pep'ed!!

 

[Alanzo]

From memory you used the word "outlawing" first and I just carried on your use of it in the dabate - I did not intend to imply I advocated it - I believe I was pointing out on that thread that your two options were not a complete description of all options.

Anyway I have clarified my position now haven't I? so please don't misrepresent my opinions now that I have explained them. Thanks. and Thanks for your respect.

Actually I don't think we disagree particularly. We are both in favour of free speech on ESMB. It's just a bit hard to protect when we are dealing with a free-speech-hating cult!

Yes you have represented your point very clearly. And I will not mis-represent them again.

I hate it when that happens....

 

[Alanzo]

Alanzo, in my opinion, you missed one -- post #326 by Neo starts out with "you're loving this, aren't you" directed to Alex, after Alex made a valid comment about Tory's conduct. Alex, kudos to you for ignoring Neo, rather than taking up his bait.

Are we missing the irony here? Alex is not the one causing the dissension -- he's only the subject of it. The whole discussion was going fine until people NOT Alex started talking about Alex's "real" intentions. Some taunt Alex by daring him to go ahead and ignore them -- you think it would be better to start the "are too" "am not" script???

We are all entitled to our opinions, and we are entitled to have them not even be based on fact. You are also entitled to continue to harp on something that is completely pointless on this board -- SO WHAT if YOU can't conceive of how Alex can be in Scn and still read the Internet? I can't conceive of how any of you can be in Idenics, in the Freezone, into Christianity, or any other group at all, after Scn. Just because YOU can't figure it out doesn't mean it can't be true.

My entire objection here is that once again an interesting discussion has gotten completely derailed by "I don't like it and therefore you can't do it." Who's the REAL OSA here, Neo, Zinj, Asagai, FTS? Take a look at the effect of your actions - we were fine until you changed the subject -- again!

Right....on!

Your avatar shows that you are dressed for the Award Banquet I am holding for you to receive the BEST POST OF THIS THREAD Award!!!!

 

[Alanzo]

The thing I find disturbing about all this is that they have taken a relatively mild situation that HAD blown over, and turned it into a witch hunt, the likes of which would make OSA blush.

What has come out of this is that we are supposed to believe that Tory is completely to blame for EVERYTHING! And the THUNDERDOME is completely blameless. Oooh Pleeeease.

I think when Tory's life was threatened in a phone call, which is a felony in the US, by a member of Anonymous, or by an OSA stooge acting anonymously, all criticisms of Tory's actions afterward should be given slack.

For her to be blamed for Tommy Gorman's actions is also stupid.

And yes, Tommy's "button", which OSA is expert at pushing, is going to be rape and threats of such.

Anonymity is Anonymous' greatest strength, but possibly an even greater weakness.

 

[Björkist]

Hey Finally Me!

I think that your focus may have been Zinj, not Alanzo. For the past several pages, Alanzo was calling out Zinj and Asagai for what he saw as ad hominem attacks against Alex. To be fair, it did seem that the thread derailed when Zinj pointed out that he felt that Alex was posting a Shore Story about his involvement with both Sci and ESMB.

(((hugs))) sweetie!

Zinj and Asagai engaging in ad hominem attacks? Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

Seriously though, I can't be the only one who has spotted a particular pattern.

Anonymity is Anonymous' greatest strength, but possibly an even greater weakness.

I totally agree.

That could, however, be construed as an indirect suggestion that Anonymous "unmask" and stop being cowards.

And, by making that suggestion (and various others), you become OSA in certain minds.

In one of Tory's recent videos she even faulted MPB for apologizing to her with his mask on...

 

[byte301]

No question it's over the top with some of the more overdramatic types. I hold to my story of it simply being a matter of not understanding the cultures, one to the other. My early days on enturb weren't exactly all fun and games, and I'm not that much younger than Tory. It took a learning curve; and when you screw up and admit it you'd be surprised how fast these folks who "never forgive' turn around an forgive.

It wasn't that I had to change my ideas or my opinions or my thoughts in order to participate smoothly, I simply had to adapt to the terrain. I've also maybe had the luxury of looking up more about memes and internet culture and how stuff develops online so it was easier for me to assimilate the phenomenon. Though i still sound like an over-moral old man from time to time. Tory could have taken another road in this, the movement is the thing that's important but she herself persisted.

Is enturb better without Tory in it? Absolutely not, in the long run. The movement needs her, and when we win she's going to have had a big part in that. But we're talking about a discussion board here. there's plenty of anons who are still on good terms with her on a personal level. But I just have my own reactions to go by, and I have to say (talking only from my own experience) a person's feelings about enturb are directly proportionate to the degree they haven't assimilated the culture.

I know that sounds like BS and being an apologist and all, and maybe I am I guess, but trying to find how - exactly how - the street actions and legal matters and general cultural inoculation going on against the cult relates to the activities of a discussion board makes for an interesting study.

I've tried to say again and again; we don't yet "get" this phenomenon. That may just sound like a lot of nonsense but the more I think about it the more it's obvious we don't have a good guideline to follow in this.

I'd never join in the reindeer games about Tory this Tory that, but since she's "a 60 year old woman" I'd be more inclined to expect a little more wisdom and grace than was demonstrated. And I would apply that to me as well. Everything can be learned from.

I totally agree with you on this Escalus.

 

[byte301]

That's true, Bjorkist. Any time anyone says take off the masks they get lambasted. The fact is that the NYC anons aren't allowed to wear masks and they still protest. So the argument that we should take off our masks, quit being cowards and all that doesn't really hold water.

If I ever get namefagged or facefagged I will still wear my mask. It bugs the hell out of the $cilons and that's a good reason for doing it in my book.

Anyone who knows anything about Anonymous wouldn't even think of suggesting they take off the masks so of course OSA comes to mind any time someone does suggest it.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Were all facefagged in DK... Masks illegal... We're presenting our bodies across the street and make magnificent dev-T anyway.

The Insane Idiot and Sinister Swindle Cult probebly know everybody 20 minutes after raid starts... We still call our anons anons yea' know!

 

[byte301]

Were all facefagged in DK... Masks illegal... We're presenting our bodies across the street and make magnificent dev-T anyway.

The Insane Idiot and Sinister Swindle Cult probebly know everybody 20 minutes after raid starts... We still call our anons anons yea' know!

I wish I could take off my mask sometimes...damn thing gets HOT!! I have it all pimped out with maxi-pads. lol But I love how it strikes fear into the hearts of the $cilons!

The signs do the trick too. I am thinking of doing a series of Burma Shave type signs to place on the sidewalk leading up to our protests. Gotta think of some good ones.

 

[Björkist]

That's true, Bjorkist. Any time anyone says take off the masks they get lambasted. The fact is that the NYC anons aren't allowed to wear masks and they still protest. So the argument that we should take off our masks, quit being cowards and all that doesn't really hold water.

If I ever get namefagged or facefagged I will still wear my mask. It bugs the hell out of the $cilons and that's a good reason for doing it in my book.

Anyone who knows anything about Anonymous wouldn't even think of suggesting they take off the masks so of course OSA comes to mind any time someone does suggest it.

How many of those who don't/can't wear masks are being/have been Fair Gamed?

That is the justification for wearing the masks right; fear of the CofS Fair Gaming a protester?

 

[Zinjifar]

How many of those who don't/can't wear masks are being/have been Fair Gamed?

That is the justification for wearing the masks right; fear of the CofS Fair Gaming a protester?

1) wearing a mask doesn't require a 'justification'
2) The 'Church' has 'fair gamed' any number of protestors; admttedly, not all of them

3) That an 'outted' protestor is *not* Fair Gamed is not evidence of no Fair Game.

Zinj

 

[Terl]

After reading the final "evidence" thread, I can't help but shake my head at what Anonymous has become. I know they've always been hostile, but this seems like too much. The general attitude I get from Enturb these days is one of snobbish anger, void of friendliness, etc. The Anon CoS protesters are a a deteriorating group. I had high hopes that Anonymous would accomplish their goal but now I'm pretty sure their movement will fizzle out and die, while the CoS moves on. More people know about the CoS now, and more people have a low opinion of it, but it's gonna be around for many more years to come. Anonymous? Epic FAIL.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
Oh, and don't say "Anonymous was always like that, blah blah blah!" because I fucking know that already. But there is a perceivable difference I've spotted time and time again recently and my respect for them is dying as quick as their efforts.

 

[Björkist]

1) wearing a mask doesn't require a 'justification'
2) The 'Church' has 'fair gamed' any number of protestors; admttedly, not all of them

3) That an 'outted' protestor is *not* Fair Gamed is not evidence of no Fair Game.

Zinj

Zinj, you responded to (but didn't answer) these questions which weren't even directed towards you!!

How about answering the 10+ that were directed towards you in another thread, which you and I both know you read?

 

[Björkist]

After reading the final "evidence" thread, I can't help but shake my head at what Anonymous has become. I know they've always been hostile, but this seems like too much. The general attitude I get from Enturb these days is one of snobbish anger, void of friendliness, etc. The Anon CoS protesters are a a deteriorating group. I had high hopes that Anonymous would accomplish their goal but now I'm pretty sure their movement will fizzle out and die, while the CoS moves on. More people know about the CoS now, and more people have a low opinion of it, but it's gonna be around for many more years to come. Anonymous? Epic FAIL.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
Oh, and don't say "Anonymous was always like that, blah blah blah!" because I fucking know that already. But there is a perceivable difference I've spotted time and time again recently and my respect for them is dying as quick as their efforts.

Column 14: Persistence on a Given Course.

 

[byte301]

How many of those who don't/can't wear masks are being/have been Fair Gamed?

That is the justification for wearing the masks right; fear of the CofS Fair Gaming a protester?

Pretty much what Zinj said. There has been a lot of c & d letters delivered. One anon got fired from a job from fair gaming. Greg in Boston got taken to court because he was the one who applied for the protest permit. Other then that I can't think of any. Some we may not know about.

I think the masks are considered more a brand now then anything else. Anonymous had no idea what OSA would do in the beginning. They read all the stories of the fairgaming of critics that happened in the past and wanted to avoid all that if possible.

Plus tourists love to have their photo taken with masked anons!