Update on Hubbard's physics education

[Ogsonofgroo]

On the OP, Hubbard did not pass any college level physics courses (his near total mangle-ation of math and physics is repeated by the ol' windbag ad-nausea), he failed miserably and dropped out before finishing his first year (he was never a 'major' in anything, except maybe a douche-baggery), and no I'm not looking up the dox for anyone on this topic as it has been thrashed before numerous times, it is all easily findable stuff (including the actual school records), off ya go!

As to when he started telling whoppers? Probably pretty early on in his life I think. He was, for lack of a better expression, a conniving liar, (albeit a convincing one and talented one, hey, he was a pulp fiction writer *hint*), and seriously not right in the head, a legend in his own twisted mind.



Ogs

 

[Commander Birdsong]

If you claim that the materials work to produce Clear's and OT's than I expect that you would be able to demonstrate that.

And I would expect that you can demonstrate the abilities gained in such a way that outside observers can actually verify that.

Otherwise I would suspect that you are just perpetuating the same fraud that Hubbard did for so many decades.

none of the people through the turnstiles at the gahhdin is asking for a refund...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

On the OP, Hubbard did not pass any college level physics courses (his near total mangle-ation of math and physics is repeated by the ol' windbag ad-nausea), he failed miserably and dropped out before finishing his first year (he was never a 'major' in anything, except maybe a douche-baggery), and no I'm not looking up the dox for anyone on this topic as it has been thrashed before numerous times, it is all easily findable stuff (including the actual school records), off ya go!

As to when he started telling whoppers? Probably pretty early on in his life I think. He was, for lack of a better expression, a conniving liar, (albeit a convincing one and talented one, hey, he was a pulp fiction writer *hint*), and seriously not right in the head, a legend in his own twisted mind.



Ogs

how gracious of you after commander birdsong has been falsely accused of derailing the thread for the long and dearly cherished oggie to place it back on it's well worn rails

however...

my great grandfather came over from old blighty about the time of the franco-prussian war and became a telegrapher for the maine central railroad, his son, my grandfather was the stationmaster in bartlett for decades, two of his sons had full careers with the maine central, my father was stationmaster in standish for a few years so i certainly have enough railroading pedigree to throw a switch and run my six-eight wheeler in from a spur line singing the grateful dead version of "casey jones"

 

[Out-Ethics]

Didn't anybody notice the sign outside Hubbard's office?

 

[Terril park]

Do they?

How many Clears and OT's (as described by Hubbard) were produced using these materials?

A doctoral thesis is needed for that. 50+ defs of clear.

Then there was much hyperbolic marketing.

I personally like Mayo's comments that as one does bridge actions one may
become clearer. This IMO applies to OT levels.

For some traveling this route the results are revelatory. Those fucked over
tend to walk away.

Those who had revelatory results tend to stick with the subject despite
the fuck overs.

 

[aegerprimo]

On the OP, Hubbard did not pass any college level physics courses (his near total mangle-ation of math and physics is repeated by the ol' windbag ad-nausea), he failed miserably and dropped out before finishing his first year (he was never a 'major' in anything, except maybe a douche-baggery), and no I'm not looking up the dox for anyone on this topic as it has been thrashed before numerous times, it is all easily findable stuff (including the actual school records), off ya go!

As to when he started telling whoppers? Probably pretty early on in his life I think. He was, for lack of a better expression, a conniving liar, (albeit a convincing one and talented one, hey, he was a pulp fiction writer *hint*), and seriously not right in the head, a legend in his own twisted mind.



Ogs

AND... docs are conveniently located at Operation Clambake - http://www.xenu.net/archive/oca/radiation.html

 

[Terril park]

You're the one who is claiming that "the materials work", so I thought you might have the statistics on how many Clear's and OT's have been produced (as defined and described by Hubbard)

Here's my count:

# of Clear's made in Scientology = 0

# of OT's made in Scientology = 0
[snip]


Anyone have different numbers?

This is criticism by slogan.

The correct question is how many people had improvement in their
lives.

Re criticism one might ask how many were fucked over.

Many experienced both.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Didn't anybody notice the sign outside Hubbard's office?

yes...

waders should be very very hip indeed wot?

 

[Type4_PTS]

This is criticism by slogan.

The correct question is how many people had improvement in their
lives.

I couldn't find a reference for "criticism by slogan" so not sure what you mean by that.

But I feel my question is totally valid.

Hubbard described States of Clear and OT and sold them as the "Bridge to Total Freedom" (or whatever he called it back then).

Why is asking "how many people achieved the promised results?" an invalid question?

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

how gracious of you after commander birdsong has been falsely accused of derailing the thread for the long and dearly cherished oggie to place it back on it's well worn rails

however...

my great grandfather came over from old blighty about the time of the franco-prussian war and became a telegrapher for the maine central railroad, his son, my grandfather was the stationmaster in bartlett for decades, two of his sons had full careers with the maine central, my father was stationmaster in standish for a few years so i certainly have enough railroading pedigree to throw a switch and run my six-eight wheeler in from a spur line singing the grateful dead version of "casey jones"

My dear Commander BS, I was directly addressing the original post of this thread, the rails haven't even gotten rusted yet on this, this, this coo-coo-choo-choo-route-de-toot-de-woo .
I love trains, especially the older 4-4-2 steam machines, always wanted to ride on one, hm, maybe one day on Venus, I can do some sort of 'track-back' and smack ol' Hubbard's 'Big Ignorant Thetan' right where it counts! (Though in doing so I may alter the time/space-continuum and then I wouldn't exist to carry out the deed).... Paradox's suxor *sad*

&

 

[Out-Ethics]

I couldn't find a reference for "criticism by slogan" so not sure what you mean by that.

But I feel my question is totally valid.

Hubbard described States of Clear and OT and sold them as the "Bridge to Total Freedom" (or whatever he called it back then).

Why is asking "how many people achieved the promised results?" an invalid question?

It's not an invalid question but a perfectly asked one. The whole basis of Scientology is based on making clear and OTs. Hubbard stated that the bridge to freedom is attaining state of clear and OT levels. If Hubbard stated that the goal was to just improve ones life excluding these levels that would be an entirely didn't matter but he didn't. I have met many people with certs showing they have attained Clear and OT but none of those people have ever demonstrated without a doubt that they really were clear and OT. In fact I have observed many claiming to be in those states the opposite such as getting sick, being easily upset, having huge problems that me who never attained these states looked easy to resolve. I have also seen enough to know that being ethical does not translate to going up the bridge. So what exactly have they attained? Can this ever be demonstrated? Making these magical claims by not backing it up other than mouthing words or saying one can only feel clear/OT is not good enough. We have gotten alot of sizzle now where's the beef?

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

...

Here's my count:

# of Clear's made in Scientology = 0

# of OT's made in Scientology = 0


Anyone have different numbers?

...

Let me have a quick look at my notes. Let's here here. Yep, that's it. There's none.

 

[rich]

lol...

how the fuck should i know f'crissakes?

bombs; two bombs grasped in desperation against toronto; two bombs a denouement against chicago. it was not time for victory and glory; it was time for

F'crissakes finnish your sentance. You can't keep us on the edge of our seats like that!

 

[Type4_PTS]

<snip>
The whole basis of Scientology is based on making clear and OTs. Hubbard stated that the bridge to freedom is attaining state of clear and OT levels. If Hubbard stated that the goal was to just improve ones life excluding these levels that would be an entirely didn't matter but he didn't. <snip>

Yeah, THIS!! ^^^^^^^^

 

[Beacon]

I have an undergraduate degree in physics. If Hubbard called himself a nuclear physicist, then I'm a f--king Nobel Prize winner . . . . . . .

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

I have an undergraduate degree in physics. If Hubbard called himself a nuclear physicist, then I'm a f--king Nobel Prize winner . . . . . . .

How should I live my life, my commodore?

 

[Deeana]

"As to when he started telling whoppers? Probably pretty early on in his life I think."

Definitely by high school. One of the earliest I've read of was when he "disappeared" from high school. Turned up at his sister's home in/near Seattle. Did not return to school, went south to California seeking transport aboard a US Navy vessel to wherever his parents were. Guam? He ended up getting the transport after officials contacted his father.

 

[Terril park]

I couldn't find a reference for "criticism by slogan" so not sure what you mean by that.

But I feel my question is totally valid.

Hubbard described States of Clear and OT and sold them as the "Bridge to Total Freedom" (or whatever he called it back then).

Why is asking "how many people achieved the promised results?" an invalid question?

I made up the concept of "criticism by slogan".

You start with the statement that no clears or OTs have been made. I consider
that a valid point of view. Clears may have been made, but I still prefer Mayo's
concept that one gets clearer. Below a definition of OT.
This is hyperbolic. Such abilities have never been stably obtained in recent times.
I have surveyed for this and most have been achieved sporadically and usually
not repeatably. I suspect not limited to those involved with Scn.

However doing the various scn,Dn processes can give one gains. Many have
attested to that. Others say they got no gain. Those interested can explore the possibilities.



"A thetan who is completely rehabilitated and can do everything a thetan should do, such as move [matter, energy, space, and time (MEST)] and control others from a distance, or create his own universe; a person who is able to create his own universe or, living in the MEST universe is able to create illusions perceivable by others at will, to handle MEST universe objects without mechanical means and to have and feel no need of bodies or even the MEST universe to keep himself and his friends interested in existence".[7]

 

[10oriocookies]

I made up the concept of "criticism by slogan".

You start with the statement that no clears or OTs have been made. I consider
that a valid point of view. Clears may have been made, but I still prefer Mayo's
concept that one gets clearer. Below a definition of OT.
This is hyperbolic. Such abilities have never been stably obtained in recent times.
I have surveyed for this and most have been achieved sporadically and usually
not repeatably. I suspect not limited to those involved with Scn.

However doing the various scn,Dn processes can give one gains. Many have
attested to that. Others say they got no gain. Those interested can explore the possibilities.



"A thetan who is completely rehabilitated and can do everything a thetan should do, such as move [matter, energy, space, and time (MEST)] and control others from a distance, or create his own universe; a person who is able to create his own universe or, living in the MEST universe is able to create illusions perceivable by others at will, to handle MEST universe objects without mechanical means and to have and feel no need of bodies or even the MEST universe to keep himself and his friends interested in existence".[7]

people also get gains from placing meat hooks through various points on their backs and swinging like a monkey in a tree. Very spiritual gains indeed, but absolutely weird and unnecessary as is practicing scn. Point is you can get gains free and without the time and effort spent on the con.

 

[Rene Descartes]

How about when he said he was the youngest eagle scout when they weren't even tallying that as a stat? I think he bragged about that as a kid or a teen.

Hubbard was the youngest kid to ever buck a bronco this side of the Yucatan Peninsula!

Rd00