Upstairs at the Org

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
Things were still fun, especially in the outer orgs and missions, but the seeds of the Church's Kristallnacht (The Mission Holder's Conference in 1982) had been planted. There was already a burgeoning RPF program in Los Angeles before the Complex was occupied, at Flag and Saint Hill, a 16 year old Miscavige had started his apprenticeship and in Feb. 1977 the Laughter died:

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2003-09-22.html

After reading all this it is plain that Hubbard would have hated my guts. He must have gone crazy with power when he realized that the whole membership would buy into anything that he wrote no matter how ridiculous.
So yeah, I guess Old Source would have hated my guts.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
After reading all this it is plain that Hubbard would have hated my guts. He must have gone crazy with power when he realized that the whole membership would buy into anything that he wrote no matter how ridiculous.
So yeah, I guess Old Source would have hated my guts.

Are you suggesting that it might be possible that he was truly capable of liking someone?
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
Are you suggesting that it might be possible that he was truly capable of liking someone?

Hmmmmmm, give me a minute.............................................................................................................................................................(crickets).................................................................................................. Wait!!!!!! Ol' Snake Thompson?
 

Gib

Crusader
Are you suggesting that it might be possible that he was truly capable of liking someone?

well. in the recent video of him shaking the hand of that blond in a bikini in the 1960 Video of him recently posted here on ESMB. He seemed to really like that blond in the bikini, Ron had a great smile on his face.

On the other hand, years later, he was willing for his wife to go to jail, and he hisself was not willing to communicate to anybody about anything, being the Grade O auditing on the Bridge to Total Freedom hisself would be, I reckon.

Makes me wonder about DM as well, as well as Int Management in the "church".
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hmmmmmm, give me a minute.............................................................................................................................................................(crickets).................................................................................................. Wait!!!!!! Ol' Snake Thompson?

....and the Black Feet Indians.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
well. in the recent video of him shaking the hand of that blond in a bikini in the 1960 Video of him recently posted here on ESMB. He seemed to really like that blond in the bikini, Ron had a great smile on his face.

On the other hand, years later, he was willing for his wife to go to jail, and he hisself was not willing to communicate to anybody about anything, being the Grade O auditing on the Bridge to Total Freedom hisself would be, I reckon.

Makes me wonder about DM as well, as well as Int Management in the "church".

Exactly. One has to wonder if he was capable of honestly liking anyone if they didn't serve some purpose. Did he really like DM as a person or just appreciate that he demonstrated some similar and useful qualities? DM may be a lot of things but he could still intuit that LRH didn't really like or respect him, and he had overseen how others were treated, so why should he like or respect anything that came from LRH except keys to the treasury and the scepter?

From this we can postulate a new chart of existence with the state of "Bug" being at the bottom - out of sight and out of mind of LRH, relegated to wherever the predetermined policy for bug routing dictates.

Alas my love you do me wrong
To cast me off discourteously;
And I have loved you oh so long
Delighting in your company.

 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I would have to disagree on that one for two reasons.
1) Native Americans had and have such a great sense of humor.
2) The Black Feet have (gulp) "BLACK" feet, or so ol' source would think.

So maybe the Black Feet made LRH a blood brother out of a sense of humor?

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-24/news/mn-1013_1_blackfeet-blood-brother

As L. Ron Hubbard told it, he was 4 years old when a medicine man named "Old Tom" made him a "blood brother" of the Blackfeet Indians of Montana, providing the inspiration for the Scientology founder's first novel, "Buckskin Brigades."
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
So maybe the Black Feet made LRH a blood brother out of a sense of humor?

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-24/news/mn-1013_1_blackfeet-blood-brother

As L. Ron Hubbard told it, he was 4 years old when a medicine man named "Old Tom" made him a "blood brother" of the Blackfeet Indians of Montana, providing the inspiration for the Scientology founder's first novel, "Buckskin Brigades."

Possibly. Here in the end the thought of them making him a blood brother is pretty funny.

The reason for #1 in my earlier post is that with a great sense of humor ol' source would have considered them jokers and degraders. As for the black feet reference, well we all now know how he felt about all things black, except perhaps black Dianetics.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
TRs are kind of like learning how to maintain through an ongoing psychotic episode that lasts years.


Thats absolutely brilliant!
When I was in $cn. I relied heavily on my TRs, basically to function.
I guess I never really sat down and thought about why I had no need of them after I'd been out a while.
... Just when I think the onion has no more layers, someone like you says something like this;)
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
It's just amazing they would go to those extremes with someone just taking a few introductory courses. But then again the classrooms were pretty empty and maybe they just needed something to do. It just was a creepy experience.

I keep hoping someone on this board is one who was there and remembers some of these things that happened to me. It's not that difficult to figure out what my location was at that time. If Kathy my course supervisor is out there: It's me!!!!

It's not amazing at all that a Scientologist on staff at an org would go to extremes. Or that a Scientologist in general would. In Scientology going to extremes is the rule, not the exception. Have you ever read KSW?
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thats absolutely brilliant!
When I was in $cn. I relied heavily on my TRs, basically to function.
I guess I never really sat down and thought about why I had no need of them after I'd been out a while.
... Just when I think the onion has no more layers, someone like you says something like this;)

Thank you Victoria, I hold your opinion in high regard.

Was all this Tommy Davis type red-in-the-face spittle laden SRA (Severe Reality Adjustment) stuff common before 1980-81. That is when I noticed it becoming institutionalized in the Sea Org and it seemed to be migrating down lines through the CMO. I didn't understand where this was coming from at the time but now I figure it must have originated with DM. But am I wrong about this? Did I somehow live in a Sea Org enclave where I missed it and it had been going on all the time? Was this an LRH innovation and DM just took it to its next level of evolution?

Aside from DM's personal mental state I can understand how something like this might evolve. We start doing TRs as public and they don't want to blow you away so it is light and fun. Then you join the SO and TRs become much more intense. And here you have a group of people who have been hardened with strict routine, discipline, training, testing physical endurance, working long hours, sleep deprivation, self sacrifice and often degradation with poor living conditions, low pay, poor diet, poor medical care, little free time or outside interaction, bug infestation, or outright abuse such as public confessions, cruel amends projects, ridiculously grueling Sec-checks lasting months, assignment to the RPF or RPF's RPF, sometimes several times and for extended periods, even years, eating left-overs, having to live in the basement, etc. Then these people are ingrained with the mindset that they must demand and enforce all these things not only on themselves but each other.

Eventually the stat system falls flat due to burnout. People realize that trying to maintain a constant uptrending stat or even a normal level trend is impossible without sacrificing every 3rd or 4th week to a lower condition and another round of corrective thinking. The proper equipment or logistical support isn't there to do the job and now you know it never will be. This is your life, you now know it is unsustainable but your exits are obscure. 3 out of 10 comrades are quietly disappearing every year and you must take up the slack.

Its like the workers in Metropolis. How do you motivate someone who has nothing left to lose and little to gain - where a reward is just a matter of having less taken away?

Not only are these people emotionally numb but they have been trained to be immune to anything that might penetrate the numbness with butt-aching TRs. Something like this has its place in the military where soldiers must learn to deal with overwhelm and stress but this is a church that sold itself as fun and helpful. None of this was attached to that Billion Year "Agreement" as a comprehensive disclosure.

TRs evolved from a training routine to handle PC originations to a reprimand for being human "Get your TRs in!" and the culture has learned that overwhelming with screaming and cursing is still an effective method of squeezing a little more compliance out of these people and the ones who can give and take the screaming the most make the best executive material.
 

Gib

Crusader
Thank you Victoria, I hold your opinion in high regard.

Was all this Tommy Davis type red-in-the-face spittle laden SRA (Severe Reality Adjustment) stuff common before 1980-81. That is when I noticed it becoming institutionalized in the Sea Org and it seemed to be migrating down lines through the CMO. I didn't understand where this was coming from at the time but now I figure it must have originated with DM. But am I wrong about this? Did I somehow live in a Sea Org enclave where I missed it and it had been going on all the time? Was this an LRH innovation and DM just took it to its next level of evolution?

Aside from DM's personal mental state I can understand how something like this might evolve. We start doing TRs as public and they don't want to blow you away so it is light and fun. Then you join the SO and TRs become much more intense. And here you have a group of people who have been hardened with strict routine, discipline, training, testing physical endurance, working long hours, sleep deprivation, self sacrifice and often degradation with poor living conditions, low pay, poor diet, poor medical care, little free time or outside interaction, bug infestation, or outright abuse such as public confessions, cruel amends projects, ridiculously grueling Sec-checks lasting months, assignment to the RPF or RPF's RPF, sometimes several times and for extended periods, even years, eating left-overs, having to live in the basement, etc. Then these people are ingrained with the mindset that they must demand and enforce all these things not only on themselves but each other.

Eventually the stat system falls flat due to burnout. People realize that trying to maintain a constant uptrending stat or even a normal level trend is impossible without sacrificing every 3rd or 4th week to a lower condition and another round of corrective thinking. The proper equipment or logistical support isn't there to do the job and now you know it never will be. This is your life, you now know it is unsustainable but your exits are obscure. 3 out of 10 comrades are quietly disappearing every year and you must take up the slack.

Its like the workers in Metropolis. How do you motivate someone who has nothing left to lose and little to gain - where a reward is just a matter of having less taken away?

Not only are these people emotionally numb but they have been trained to be immune to anything that might penetrate the numbness with butt-aching TRs. Something like this has its place in the military where soldiers must learn to deal with overwhelm and stress but this is a church that sold itself as fun and helpful. None of this was attached to that Billion Year "Agreement" as a comprehensive disclosure.

TRs evolved from a training routine to handle PC originations to a reprimand for being human "Get your TRs in!" and the culture has learned that overwhelming with screaming and cursing is still an effective method of squeezing a little more compliance out of these people and the ones who can give and take the screaming the most make the best executive material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeMux1GjA7Y
 

Gib

Crusader
Thank you Victoria, I hold your opinion in high regard.

Was all this Tommy Davis type red-in-the-face spittle laden SRA (Severe Reality Adjustment) stuff common before 1980-81. That is when I noticed it becoming institutionalized in the Sea Org and it seemed to be migrating down lines through the CMO. I didn't understand where this was coming from at the time but now I figure it must have originated with DM. But am I wrong about this? Did I somehow live in a Sea Org enclave where I missed it and it had been going on all the time? Was this an LRH innovation and DM just took it to its next level of evolution?

Aside from DM's personal mental state I can understand how something like this might evolve. We start doing TRs as public and they don't want to blow you away so it is light and fun. Then you join the SO and TRs become much more intense. And here you have a group of people who have been hardened with strict routine, discipline, training, testing physical endurance, working long hours, sleep deprivation, self sacrifice and often degradation with poor living conditions, low pay, poor diet, poor medical care, little free time or outside interaction, bug infestation, or outright abuse such as public confessions, cruel amends projects, ridiculously grueling Sec-checks lasting months, assignment to the RPF or RPF's RPF, sometimes several times and for extended periods, even years, eating left-overs, having to live in the basement, etc. Then these people are ingrained with the mindset that they must demand and enforce all these things not only on themselves but each other.

Eventually the stat system falls flat due to burnout. People realize that trying to maintain a constant uptrending stat or even a normal level trend is impossible without sacrificing every 3rd or 4th week to a lower condition and another round of corrective thinking. The proper equipment or logistical support isn't there to do the job and now you know it never will be. This is your life, you now know it is unsustainable but your exits are obscure. 3 out of 10 comrades are quietly disappearing every year and you must take up the slack.

Its like the workers in Metropolis. How do you motivate someone who has nothing left to lose and little to gain - where a reward is just a matter of having less taken away?

Not only are these people emotionally numb but they have been trained to be immune to anything that might penetrate the numbness with butt-aching TRs. Something like this has its place in the military where soldiers must learn to deal with overwhelm and stress but this is a church that sold itself as fun and helpful. None of this was attached to that Billion Year "Agreement" as a comprehensive disclosure.

TRs evolved from a training routine to handle PC originations to a reprimand for being human "Get your TRs in!" and the culture has learned that overwhelming with screaming and cursing is still an effective method of squeezing a little more compliance out of these people and the ones who can give and take the screaming the most make the best executive material.

Nice write-up.

Stephen Kent does a good one on brainwashing and the RPF.

http://www.solitarytrees.net/pubs/skent/brain.htm

towards the end there is this account which is pretty gruesome. That organization is nuts.

"Three very revealing accounts exist by people who were Scientologists and had brief but disturbing encounters with RPF inmates. Their accounts provide some indications of the cumulative impact the brainwashing and confinement efforts had on the people who experienced them. One account was from former member Joe Cisar, who:

stumbled into the RPF's RPF one time in the tunnels below the Cedars complex in L.A. There w[ere] about a dozen people who apparently had been sleeping in these tiny rooms. (There were a couple of blankets on the floor.) Both men and women [were down there]. A man was cutting a woman's pant leg with a knife while she was wearing the pants, and he had sliced her foot. Blood was running down her ankle onto her foot and was puddling on the floor. She looked up at me and gave me… what I would consider to be an insane smile and said, 'I caused my foot to be in the way of his knife.' Two or three of the people who were crouching and laying about on the floor looked up at me as if it were some kind of wonderful joke. I backed out the way I came in. One of Scientology's big promotion schemes is to tell people that they need to be 'at cause.' These people weren't at cause over anything[. T]hey had degenerated back to the Middle Ages.

That's what I knew about RPF when the Scientology ethics officer told me to report down there for indefinite duty. I told her [that] they could get met down there, but I'd put several of them in the hospital first, and reminded her that I was a Viet Nam veteran. I was one of the few Sea Org members who had managed to hang onto [his or her] car, and I left that night (cisar, 1997: 3)."

 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
It's not amazing at all that a Scientologist on staff at an org would go to extremes. Or that a Scientologist in general would. In Scientology going to extremes is the rule, not the exception. Have you ever read KSW?

I must have read it but then I must have not paid too close attention :)
 

Gib

Crusader
I must have read it but then I must have not paid too close attention :)

you should consider yourself lucky. :yes:

I read with great agreement the first time I read it. That agreement didn't turn out exactly as promised in the policy letter.
 

Gib

Crusader
here is a perfect example of "institutionalized", not by physical walls, but by mental walls, the story of Sarge, who finally in the end disclosed Hubbard told him he failed and wasn't coming back. And yet in this write-up by Sarge, he still believes in Hubbard's tech:

http://www.scientology-cult.com/steve-sarge-pfauth.html

The comments are worth noting, and Sarge never answers to the questions. Did Sarge ever get to compare notes, get to compare other philosophies, learn critical thinking, learn rhetoric?
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
you should consider yourself lucky. :yes:

I read with great agreement the first time I read it. That agreement didn't turn out exactly as promised in the policy letter.

That would have been one of those things I considered flittering around the periphery. I wanted to get to the heart of the matter, get to the real meat of things.

In the mid-seventies I had read through the HQS course pack. So when I went back in the mid-eighties that is what I wanted. What I got pissed me off. Cute little drawings with text from books that I already owned.

This is precisely why I did not tell them I had several thousand dollars in the bank. I was not going to fork out money for crap like that.

KSW? Probably just a group of meaningless text to me at the time.
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
So that's why what you would call the old timers are all gone, at least for the most part? There was the camaraderie and the good times up until the early eighties so when they felt that come on they would not accept such a drastic change. Ok, not the ONLY reason you all left but you get the gist.

I remember how excited everyone was when I think it was 1976 Charley and I drove to San Francisco to a theatre on Mission Street. The main speaker was Quentin Hubbard. Such a soft-spoken and charismatic guy. All of us in the audience we're extremely enthusiastic towards him. I'm glad I got to see him.

"Old timers" is not quite what I meant. Long-timers (if I'm allowed to make up a word) would be more precise. Or might that be "Long-time in-ness?
 
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