Upstairs at the Org

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
Funny how you have to hide your money from them, isn't it?



True the HAS doesn't exist, or at least didn't back in 2008.



Most likely what was going on is that someone was listening in on the conversation. That's pretty typical. I am not even shocked by the fact that she did that. In fact at AOLA, where I slaved, that was a routine activity, for a staff member to dial someone into a conversation without informing the other party. For many different reasons. Because they might need to tag someone in on a reg cycle, or for training purposes, or to let ethics hear what was going on, or so the auditor or case sup could use the conversation to manage the person's auditing.

That's a whole lot of info you gave there. Smart and right to the heart of the matter. However I would not bat an eyelash if it turned out that they were all just extremely bored. That building was a real ghost town, at least during the day Mon-Fri. At the very least a 5 to 1 ratio of staff to students.

I wonder today what the ratio would be in that building.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
"Old timers" is not quite what I meant. Long-timers (if I'm allowed to make up a word) would be more precise. Or might that be "Long-time in-ness?

Some would consider the "old timers" to be the people who got in during the 50's. But they are now almost all dead.

At this point, anybody who was in before DM took control can be considered an "old timer".
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
True the HAS doesn't exist, or at least didn't back in 2008.

The original "Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist" course from the 1950's consisted of the TR's, Upper Indoc TR's, and CCH's.

By the 1970's, the HAS was just the Comm Course (covering TR's 0-4), and the upper part of the old HAS got moved into the HQS Course (Hubbard Qualified Scientologist), where you learned how to audit Objectives processes.

The lineup in the 1970's was Comm Course, HQS, then into the Academy levels.

In the 80's, the Comm Course was replaced by the "Success Through Communications" course, and HQS started getting de-emphasized.
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
Some would consider the "old timers" to be the people who got in during the 50's. But they are now almost all dead.

At this point, anybody who was in before DM took control can be considered an "old timer".

So I'm an old-timer? How in hell did that happen?
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
here is a perfect example of "institutionalized", not by physical walls, but by mental walls, the story of Sarge, who finally in the end disclosed Hubbard told him he failed and wasn't coming back. And yet in this write-up by Sarge, he still believes in Hubbard's tech:

http://www.scientology-cult.com/steve-sarge-pfauth.html

The comments are worth noting, and Sarge never answers to the questions. Did Sarge ever get to compare notes, get to compare other philosophies, learn critical thinking, learn rhetoric?

I am having difficulty reconciling these two statements by Sarge. Does he not know the RPF is LRH tech?

http://www.scientology-cult.com/steve-sarge-pfauth.html

“I blew the RPF in Jan of 89. I blow good! Still blown after all these years.”

///

“I do not like all the LRH bashing. LRH was not perfect. Forget all the PR. The Tech was real and the Tech works. LRH was a genius. How did LRH audit every day without an auditor or CS? Could you do that? Please understand we need to save the Tech. Please discard all the black PR. I got so much case gain, there is no way I can bash source. “
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
The original "Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist" course from the 1950's consisted of the TR's, Upper Indoc TR's, and CCH's.

By the 1970's, the HAS was just the Comm Course (covering TR's 0-4), and the upper part of the old HAS got moved into the HQS Course (Hubbard Qualified Scientologist), where you learned how to audit Objectives processes.

The lineup in the 1970's was Comm Course, HQS, then into the Academy levels.

In the 80's, the Comm Course was replaced by the "Success Through Communications" course, and HQS started getting de-emphasized.

LRH was constantly discovering that the entry point to society needed to be undercut with more simple or fundamental tech to deal with difficult wogs. Consequently the runway up the Bridge became longer and more expensive.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Do we get a pin or a cert for that?

We get a pocket knife with a certificate of authenticity that we really were around pre-DM. Retails for $1500 in the Scientology souvenir shop, but only $2 on EBay.

(After DM, they are only allowed plastic knives.)

old-timer-schrade-1080t-pocket-knife-usa-made-w-box-certificate-new-condition-d2484a72efdc75a747006633a3ccd0d5.jpg
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I must have read it but then I must have not paid too close attention :)

This is why Scientologists go to extremes at the drop of a hat:

When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of pantywaist dilettantes have ever made anything. It’s a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive—and even they have a hard time. We’ll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don’t make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she’ll win and we’ll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.”
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
So I'm an old-timer? How in hell did that happen?

I think being a cult "old timer" probably works parallel to how a person determines if they are old.

Anyone 20 years older than your current age is old.
Therefore, anyone who was in $cientology 20 years previous to ones involvement, is an old timer.

To those fresh young sea org members we see, yep, WE'RE the old timers now. Hahah.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
I am having difficulty reconciling these two statements by Sarge. Does he not know the RPF is LRH tech?

http://www.scientology-cult.com/steve-sarge-pfauth.html

“I blew the RPF in Jan of 89. I blow good! Still blown after all these years.”

///

“I do not like all the LRH bashing. LRH was not perfect. Forget all the PR. The Tech was real and the Tech works. LRH was a genius. How did LRH audit every day without an auditor or CS? Could you do that? Please understand we need to save the Tech. Please discard all the black PR. I got so much case gain, there is no way I can bash source. “


Only guessing here, but I'm thinking Sarge has made significant progress since these statements.
Look at Mike Rinder! I'm so encouraged by Mike.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
We get a pocket knife with a certificate of authenticity that we really were around pre-DM. Retails for $1500 in the Scientology souvenir shop, but only $2 on EBay.

(After DM, they are only allowed plastic knives.)

old-timer-schrade-1080t-pocket-knife-usa-made-w-box-certificate-new-condition-d2484a72efdc75a747006633a3ccd0d5.jpg

I wonder if they still present those little ribbons for how many years you have been in the Sea Org showing which Anniversary Year it is since 1967?

It must have gotten very demoralizing to see how few people came up to the stage as they worked their way past the 6 year mark.
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I think being a cult "old timer" probably works parallel to how a person determines if they are old.

Anyone 20 years older than your current age is old.
Therefore, anyone who was in $cientology 20 years previous to ones involvement, is an old timer.

To those fresh young sea org members we see, yep, WE'RE the old timers now. Hahah.

Yep. Like I said earlier, the first "old timers", the ones from the 50's, are mostly dead. If you got in as a young person, and are now old, then you now qualify as an "old timer".
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I wonder if they still present those little ribbons for how many years you have been in the Sea Org showing which Anniversary Year it is since 1967

It must have gotten very demoralizing to see how few people came up to the stage as they worked their way past the 6 year mark.

I forgot all about that until you mentioned it.

They stopped announcing 'years in' at the SO ceremonies in PAC some time in the early to mid 80s, even before the old tyrant died and the new tyrant took over. Two years and under were never announced while I was in, anyway. After that, they only announced years if someone got another rank or rating or award or something.

It was demoralizing! The last one I remember was when Jack and Irene Dirmann went to the stage to pick up yet anOTHER, higher rank each. Something like another rank of Lt. There were very few people left then who had been in over ten years and were still in the SO. I remember 9/10ths of the room had been in less than two years, so none of us were announced.

I had a :wtf: moment at the last one. Clearly there was an elite inner core who would always pick up medals and awards and ranks and things and the rest of us were just there as support slaves as we came and went and never to be noticed. Even if someone got 3rd Class Petty Officer rank, who cared? It still meant nothing.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I forgot all about that until you mentioned it.

They stopped announcing 'years in' at the SO ceremonies in PAC some time in the early to mid 80s, even before the old tyrant died and the new tyrant took over. Two years and under were never announced while I was in, anyway. After that, they only announced years if someone got another rank or rating or award or something.

It was demoralizing! The last one I remember was when Jack and Irene Dirmann went to the stage to pick up yet anOTHER, higher rank each. Something like another rank of Lt. There were very few people left then who had been in over ten years and were still in the SO. I remember 9/10ths of the room had been in less than two years, so none of us were announced.

I had a :wtf: moment at the last one. Clearly there was an elite inner core who would always pick up medals and awards and ranks and things and the rest of us were just there as support slaves as we came and went and never to be noticed. Even if someone got 3rd Class Petty Officer rank, who cared? It still meant nothing.

Irene was Chairman of the Officers Selection Board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO3...Xk1JZ6zzzkW8pwORJh6kx4qhtEtcHOGRk8jZVUViaSvp-
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
I remember sitting down and talking with someone at a desk, God knows what their position was, and they told me that I had to choose and that I had to stop being a "close scientologist". I remember being kind of insulted at the time.

Looking back at it she was right. But what she did not realize was the reason I had one foot in and one foot out was because of the cost I knew that was facing me. I never could understand why, if they wanted to clear the whole planet, do they charge so much money. Some rationalization about out exchange but I considered that BS.

Something just didn't seem right about the whole affair. But what was it? Hmmm.........
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I remember sitting down and talking with someone at a desk, God knows what their position was, and they told me that I had to choose and that I had to stop being a "close scientologist". I remember being kind of insulted at the time.

When I went for OT Preps at ASHO, the MAA there complained to me about my being a "closet Scientologist". I had experienced negative results from trying to disseminate at work, and no longer gave any indication of being a Scn at work, or to my non-Scn friends. This annoyed the MAA.

Actually, by that point, I had become a "submarine Scientologist". I had purposefully decided to live far away from my closest local org, that taking local services was impractical. By that point I was still enough "in" to want to do OT levels, but very disenchanted by the madness going on in the org (this was the point where Int Finance Police was running wild). So I would work, accumulate some money, surface at PAC or Flag, and then it was "Down periscope! Dive, dive dive!" back out of sight.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
LRH was constantly discovering that the entry point to society needed to be undercut with more simple or fundamental tech to deal with difficult wogs. Consequently the runway up the Bridge became longer and more expensive.

Or stupid ones. I remember seeing The Volunteer Minister's Handbook for the first time, and thinking "Oh no, this isn't good."

... snip ...
But what she did not realize was the reason I had one foot in and one foot out was because of the cost I knew that was facing me. I never could understand why, if they wanted to clear the whole planet, do they charge so much money. Some rationalization about out exchange but I considered that BS.

Something just didn't seem right about the whole affair. But what was it? Hmmm.........

The prices weren't so crazy in the 70's. Lower level auditing was $25/hr. My first e-meter cost $100, used. If they'd had prices like they have now I'd have laughed. $5000 for an e-meter? And you have to buy two? Forget it. I'd never have hung around.
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
Or stupid ones. I remember seeing The Volunteer Minister's Handbook for the first time, and thinking "Oh no, this isn't good."



The prices weren't so crazy in the 70's. Lower level auditing was $25/hr. My first e-meter cost $100, used. If they'd had prices like they have now I'd have laughed. $5000 for an e-meter? And you have to buy two? Forget it. I'd never have hung around.

I still have that heavy green bitch. Also in 1985 I bought a used MK V meter from a sea org'er for $100. It literally took me months to get it from him after I gave him the money. I never did learn to use it. The last time I saw it it was in 6 pieces. All the sides just came apart. I don't know how. Maybe the marcabians came in one night while I was sleeping and smashed it?
 
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