Vinaire's comments on THE LOGICS

[Vinaire]

Eventually in the universal scheme of existence, humans graduate from the mental mentality and discover soul.

Then all this logic folderol becomes folderol.

As long as there are souls and universes there will be logic.

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[Mystic]

As long as there are souls and universes there will be logic.

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Such illusions are eventually transmuted out of existence.

 

[nozeno]

Such illusions are eventually transmuted out of existence.

Well....... I can't wait for that to happen.

 

[Vinaire]

Such illusions are eventually transmuted out of existence.

That's called NIRVANA!

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[Mystic]

That's called NIRVANA!

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Nirvana is a Sanskrit term. The Buddha's language was Pali. In Pali "Nirvana" = Nibbana.

This is a very interesting term, Nirvana. Translated into English it means "blown out". Can you take the bliss?

 

[Vinaire]

Nirvana is a Sanskrit term. The Buddha's language was Pali. In Pali "Nirvana" = Nibbana.

This is a very interesting term, Nirvana. Translated into English it means "blown out". Can you take the bliss?

Buddhism. The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion.

Hinduism. Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment.

Etymology
From Sanskrit nirvana (blowing out, extinguishing, extinction), from nis- (out) + vati (it blows). Ultimately from Indo-European root we- (to blow) that is also the source of wind, weather, ventilate, window and wing

nirvana
(Sanskrit: "Extinction") In Indian religious thought, the transcendent state of freedom achieved by the extinction of desire and of individual consciousness. Nirvana is the supreme goal of the disciplines of meditation, particularly in Buddhism. Release from desire (and consequent suffering) and the continuous round of rebirths constitutes enlightenment, or the experience of nirvana. Theravada Buddhism conceives of nirvana as tranquillity and peace; Mahayana Buddhism equates it with sunyata (emptiness), dharma-kaya (the essence of the Buddha), and dharma-datu (ultimate reality).



This is where Hubbard strayed away from Buddhism. He could not have "extinction of desire and of individual consciousness." For Hubbard the "attainment of total individuality" was the mantra!

Poor Hubbard! He did not quite realize that a universe itself is a games condition. Individuality is an intrinsic part of this games condition.

Reading Hubbard sounds good until you see how he fared himself in following his own philosophy. The deeper one goes into his philosophy of individuality the more one becomes aware of the contradictions that finally did him in.

But Hubbard did give a good old boy try! One can learn a lot from his efforts.

Mystic, please don't get stuck in that bliss!

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[Mystic]

Buddhism. The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion.

Hinduism. Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment.

Etymology
From Sanskrit nirvana (blowing out, extinguishing, extinction), from nis- (out) + vati (it blows). Ultimately from Indo-European root we- (to blow) that is also the source of wind, weather, ventilate, window and wing

nirvana
(Sanskrit: "Extinction") In Indian religious thought, the transcendent state of freedom achieved by the extinction of desire and of individual consciousness. Nirvana is the supreme goal of the disciplines of meditation, particularly in Buddhism. Release from desire (and consequent suffering) and the continuous round of rebirths constitutes enlightenment, or the experience of nirvana. Theravada Buddhism conceives of nirvana as tranquillity and peace; Mahayana Buddhism equates it with sunyata (emptiness), dharma-kaya (the essence of the Buddha), and dharma-datu (ultimate reality).



This is where Hubbard strayed away from Buddhism. He could not have "extinction of desire and of individual consciousness." For Hubbard the "attainment of total individuality" was the mantra!

Poor Hubbard! He did not quite realize that a universe itself is a games condition. Individuality is an intrinsic part of this games condition.

Reading Hubbard sounds good until you see how he fared himself in following his own philosophy. The deeper one goes into his philosophy the more one becomes aware of the contradictions that finally did him in.

But Hubbard did give a good old boy try! One can learn a lot from his efforts.

Mystic, please don't get stuck in that bliss!

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"Stuck", a Hubbard-thing concept.

 

[Vinaire]

"Stuck", a Hubbard-thing concept.

I have seen many people STUCK who do not know anything about Hubbard.

Hubbard himself did not know about Hubbard. He got "stuck" (trapped) in the idea of INDIVIDUALITY.

The truth is that INDIVIDUALITY/UNIVERSE is a dichotomy. Losing individuality does not mean "becoming one with the universe" as Hubbard assumed. Losing individuality goes along with losing the universe.

One cannot just lose the universe and retain individuality. One cannot have individuality without the universe.

Thus, the idea of controlling matter, energy, space and time simply leads to getting totally trapped in matter, energy, space and time.

Mystic, you seem to be stuck in rolling on the floor with laughter.

And also in the Hubbard-thing.

You cannot have one without the other.

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[Vinaire]

I don't think it is as simplistic as you make it above. MEST is an acronym for matter, energy, space and time, which, for me, is not limited to physical matter, energy, space and time. When you imagine something, you also imagine matter, energy, space and time simultaneously.

Maybe the Hadron collider will soon divulge the secrets for the PHYSICAL matter, energy, space and time.

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Trying to find the secrets of physical matter, energy, space and time by force as through Hadron Collider can only lead to... smashing all our considerations that have created this by-product of MEST, in one blow.

Would the result be total insanity?

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[ExKane]

Trying to find the secrets of physical matter, energy, space and time by force as through Hadron Collider can only lead to... smashig all our considerations that have created this by-product of MEST, in one blow.

Would the result be total insanity?

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I see no reason to believe that the manner in which we discover the secrets of the physical universe will affect our so-called considerations. Even if MEST is a byproduct of these considerations - which I see no reason to believe is the case - then why would the manner in which we parse the laws of MEST affect our considerations? Why would the causal arrow point both ways - and, moreover, why would the particular manner in which it is done affect our considerations in the specific way you predict?

Specifically: what is the mechanism through which our treatment of MEST would affect our considerations?

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

There is a thin line between ostentatious, egocentristic solipsism and insanity.

Wait, no there isn't.

The Anabaptist jacques

 

[Vinaire]

I see no reason to believe that the manner in which we discover the secrets of the physical universe will affect our so-called considerations. Even if MEST is a byproduct of these considerations - which I see no reason to believe is the case - then why would the manner in which we parse the laws of MEST affect our considerations? Why would the causal arrow point both ways - and, moreover, why would the particular manner in which it is done affect our considerations in the specific way you predict?

Specifically: what is the mechanism through which our treatment of MEST would affect our considerations?

I am just waving the red cape waiting for the bull to charge.

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[Vinaire]

There is a thin line between ostentatious, egocentristic solipsism and insanity.

Wait, no there isn't.

The Anabaptist jacques

...and here comes the bull.

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[ExKane]

I am just waving the red cape waiting for the bull to charge.

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The message you posted to which I replied was in jest? I was honestly inquiring, and hoping for an honest answer.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

...and here comes the bull.

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That is funny!

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Vinaire]

The message you posted to which I replied was in jest? I was honestly inquiring, and hoping for an honest answer.

I have no answers to your questions at the moment.

I am just speculating, and hopefully the answers would come. Logic fails at this level of considerations.

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[Vinaire]

That is funny!

The Anabaptist Jacques

I knew you would like it!

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[ExKane]

I have no answers to your questions at the moment.

I am just speculating, and hopefully the answers would come. Logic fails at this level of considerations.

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It's okay. That's what I expected.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I knew you would like it!

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I'm just glad you didn't call it a raging bull!

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Vinaire]

I'm just glad you didn't call it a raging bull!

The Anabaptist Jacques

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