Visiting the Independent Scientology Mission in Israel

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Visiting the Independent Scientology Mission in Israel.

Tony Ortega - Field report: Visiting the mission that told the Church of Scientology to take a hike

http://tonyortega.org/2016/07/02/fi...old-the-church-of-scientology-to-take-a-hike/

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It was here in Tami’s office that we met their three partners, auditors who had been trained by Tami and then were made equal owners of the center with Dani and Tami in 2010. Even then, Dani pointed out, they had ideas that were more democratic than a typical Scientology organization. But what finally pushed them to the brink, he says, was reading Debbie Cook’s infamous letter that she put out on New Year’s Eve, 2012. If someone they respected like Cook, the former “captain” of Scientology’s spiritual mecca in Clearwater, could explain so clearly why David Miscavige was the problem with the church, then that was something they had to take seriously.

After their 2012 breakaway, the Lembergers went through some pretty typical harassment. But they tell us that for the most part now, they’re left alone. And they really have no interaction with Scientology’s “Ideal Org” in Jaffa.

Dani is suing Scientology, and we hope to have an update on that for you soon. For now, Dani says he can’t talk publicly about it.

At his office, Dani told us again about his own changing relationship with David Miscavige. When he started Dror Center in 1992, Dani says, there wasn’t really anything by L. Ron Hubbard in Hebrew. So he took it upon himself to translate the beginning text, Learning How to Learn, and printed up 1,000 copies at his own expense (see photo, above). He sent the very first copy he received to Miscavige, who sent him a letter calling him “highly commendable.”

Later, when Dani was kicked out of the church for breaking away, in his “declare” document, which we printed recently, his translation of Hubbard material into Hebrew is now listed as a crime.

Well, that’s Scientology.

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Dani Lemberger replied:

http://tonyortega.org/2016/07/02/fi...cientology-to-take-a-hike/#comment-2762268858

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Dani Lemberger • 12 hours ago

Dani Lemberger says:
Thanks, Tony, for coming to visit us. I enjoyed your stay and our conversation.
When Tony and I first met, exactly four years ago, Tony mentioned he had relatives in Israel. I invited Tony to visit Dror on his next trip to Israel and also offered him some free auditing. It surprised me that a researcher of over twenty years into Scientology has never been "in session".
So Tony has taken me up on the invite and still holds a rain check for his free auditing.
In our conversation three days ago, I found out that Tony does not believe that "thetans" exist. He holds the weird view that Man is a brain with a body attached. He has been misled into believing that Life is a "biological-chemical" phenomenon.
I attempted to demonstrate, in the little time we had, that Man is a spirit, is immortal, does replace his body once every 70-80 years, etc... Tony scoffed and I was not offended. He has such a charming, captivating smile.
I do believe the crux of the difference between us is the question, "WHAT IS LIFE???" Hubbard attempted an answer, I think he did a better job than most other thinkers.
To judge Hubbard and Scientology by Miscavige and his "Church" is tantamount to judging all Germans by Hitler (or all Russians by Stalin, or..., or...).
I am grateful for Tony's post because I hope it clarifies that not all practitioners of Scientology are crooks. I'd rather be viewed by the readers as dumb than as a villain.


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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Tony Ortega's never had auditing? Tsk, tsk.

Who or what do we know that audits anyone 24/7 for free, in the privacy of their own home, and no-one else need ever know about what happened in session, or that a session even took place at all? :biggrin:

Paul
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
"To judge Hubbard and Scientology by Miscavige and his "Church" is tantamount to judging all Germans by Hitler..." Dani says to Tony.

If he didn't throw Hubbard in there, that would make a little sense, but not much. It's as if Dani thinks of Hubbard as a nationality or country of people now? That is way out there.

I suppose Dani is being critical of the way critics point out that Miscavige is a product of Scientology and imitates Hubbard, and uses Scientology and Hubbard's blueprint to control people. Yes, he may have his own odious character flaws also, but without Scientology, he may have just turned into a salesman like his father. That's what many critics including myself believe.

We do not believe that Scientology, on its own, produces fairly uniformly innocuous nutters, like the indies, who don't have the agenda to clear the planet because they are the only ones with all the answers, and here to take over medicine, education, government and business and replace it with Scientology, to save the planet and this sector of the galaxy before it is too late.

Most critics of Scientology are appalled by Hubbard's lies, the development of Scientology and the trap he set for people to extract money and labor from them. We are disgusted with Hubbard and the way he treated other people while he was alive. We do not think of Scientology as a science of the mind or a coherent philosophy. Instead, it is a hodgepodge of often contradictory concepts, based on deceit, bait and switch, carrot on a stick, self delusion and mind control. Adherents model themselves after Hubbard, and participate in setting the same trap for people.

Most of us think Scientology was horrible for many people under Hubbard, and in some ways worse than it is under Miscavige. For example, because Hubbard smoked and touted it as a cancer preventative, many children started smoking to be like him. Miscavige hasn't done this yet.

We do not think Miscavige is the sole reason for Scientology going bad, or not being a good thing. Instead, Scientology would have collapsed if Miscavige was a nice person who ended disconnection, punishment for having bad thoughts about himself or Hubbard, and made it low or no cost. Just try giving away Scientology auditing for free. No one really wants this crap!

I enjoy learning, and have kept learning my whole life. I don't need the loop-de-loop of learning how to learn and the other bogus crap that Hubbard offered his followers. Not surprisingly, most people are like this. Most people do not buy into Scientology. Most people do not hear the word "Scientology," and think, that sounds interesting! I think I'll become one to find out what that is like, as Ron Miscavige did. Less than 1% of the population are intrigued by Scientology enough to buy into it.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Report on Flag and Saint Hill auditing from a Kazakh at the Independent Scientology Mission in Israel.

This is a bit dated, from June 1, 2016, but I found it interesting for two reasons. First, the report is about auditing at Flag and Saint HIll. Second, the report is from a resident of Almati (Almaty), Kazahstan, the home of Regina (Rigina), a recently much discussed subject on this forum.

Free Scientologists Israel: Marat is on Solo NOTs!

http://scnil.org/english/2016/06/01/marat-is-on-solo-nots/

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AFSI would like to present to you Marat Iskanderov, a special guest of Dror Center.

Marat has lived all his life in Almati, Kazahstan. He started his Scientology adventure at the St. Petersburg Org, Russia, in 2009 and continued his services at the Almati Mission.

In 2012, Marat decided to go for the best the Church has to offer and traveled to Flag, the “Mecca of Technical Perfection”. Marat finished his Grades and NED Full Program at Flag. He was then “C/S’ed” to do three L’s although he originally paid only for L11. He was audited on the three L’s in English, which he barely speaks, since his native language is Russian. Marat tells us that the auditor gave the commands in English while he read the auditing questions from a printed sheet in Russian.

Marat felt terrible after the three L’s and his life and business went into a steep decline during the year after he completed the rundowns. When Marat asked Flag for help, they promptly offered him to buy a few review intensives of L’s. In the state he was in, he barely made it to Flag. When he asked the L’s D of P what is the reason for his condition, after completing three L Rundowns, he was told that this happened because he was given the Rundowns in English, not in his native language.

When Marat further wondered how could it be that the C/S allowed him to do the L’s in English, Marat was told that he demanded the L’s, it was not the C/S’s recommendation.

Needless to say, Flag did not offer any “on the house” repair. And, just to give you an idea, an intensive of L’s auditing costs about $11,000 dollars and Marat had already spent $120,000 on the three L’s.

Extremely dissatisfied with Flag, Marat went on to try his luck at Saint Hill, England where he arrived at the end of 2014. At Saint Hill he did his Clearing Course and continued all the way up to New OT V, Audited NOTs.

Marat tells us that at Saint Hill he was subjected to numerous overruns and suffered major upsets due to forced “hard sell” cycles and gross out-tech. Completely devastated and with little hope left, Marat flew back home to Almati in February 2015.

We are amazed that Marat did not give up at this point. Yet he tells us that deep in his heart, based on his early wins, he knew that LRH’s Technology does work, when delivered genuinely by honest people. It was this knowledge that first brought Marat to Dror Center in January 2016.

When Marat first came to Dror, his OCA looked as follows. We publish it with Marat’s permission.

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Hypatia

Pagan
Tony Ortega's never had auditing? Tsk, tsk.

Who or what do we know that audits anyone 24/7 for free, in the privacy of their own home, and no-one else need ever know about what happened in session, or that a session even took place at all? :biggrin:

Paul


Um...um...lemme think...wait...wait--I know!!!!!

The Self Analysis book!!!!

:coolwink:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
"To judge Hubbard and Scientology by Miscavige and his "Church" is tantamount to judging all Germans by Hitler..." Dani says to Tony.

If he didn't throw Hubbard in there, that would make a little sense, but not much. It's as if Dani thinks of Hubbard as a nationality or country of people now? That is way out there.

LOL, I wonder if Dani started with the analogy and then realized the shit they had just stepped in and weakly pivoted to save it. Because the only way that analogy was going to make a lick of sense would be saying, "To judge Hubbard and Scientology by Miscavige and his church is tantamount to judging all Nazis and Neo-Nazis by Hitler."

The mental loops indies must jump through to separate Hubbard from DM is amazing. DM was raised on Hubbard's garbage from childhood on up, he learned to play Hubbard's ruthless game the best and ended up standing on top of his empire as a result.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
In 2012, Marat decided to go for the best the Church has to offer and traveled to Flag, the “Mecca of Technical Perfection”. Marat finished his Grades and NED Full Program at Flag. He was then “C/S’ed” to do three L’s although he originally paid only for L11. He was audited on the three L’s in English, which he barely speaks, since his native language is Russian. Marat tells us that the auditor gave the commands in English while he read the auditing questions from a printed sheet in Russian.
I can go one better than that.

When I did Power I (for whatever reason) fell asleep. My auditor (a name just about everyone here would recognize) just droned on, one question after the next, and marked each question as "no response". When I complained, he gave me the list of questions and told me to run them on my own.

Some people heard I was connecting up with this guy, and wondered if they should warn me. I wish they had; the whole thing was a bad experience. But it's typical: other people get warned what not to do, but they never tell me anything.

Helena
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
I can go one better than that.

When I did Power I (for whatever reason) fell asleep. My auditor (a name just about everyone here would recognize) just droned on, one question after the next, and marked each question as "no response". When I complained, he gave me the list of questions and told me to run them on my own.

Some people heard I was connecting up with this guy, and wondered if they should warn me. I wish they had; the whole thing was a bad experience. But it's typical: other people get warned what not to do, but they never tell me anything.

Helena

I thought you didn't like being warned?
 
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