VV: Scientology - Mike Rinder on "The Hole," Indoctrination, Confessions, ...

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Ortega and Rinder

No, BB. He was DISHONEST in not allowing your post, but given his thoroughly disreputable past he is 'smart' not to allow others to bring up his very real culpability and lack of integrity in his public forum.

Of course for those who readily see past his attempts to whitewash himself, lrh, and his peculiar & polemical view of history, his efforts to fashion a reputation for integrity are both fictional & pointless.


Mark A. Baker

I stay with stupid. I have no info if he was involved with this theft of a diary. Quite possibly happened before he was sent to handle flaps. But my post wasn't accusative.

I consider Mike and Marty's comments on this as reasonably accurate. The best exposition we have to date. Note that Marty has long ago admitted culpability in destroying evidence in this case.

Anyway, he deletes a post of mine supporting him essentially I can comment here. And for that matter elsewhere.

I believe I'm the only friend he has on this forum. Don't think he considers me as one anymore. So be it.
 
That why I prefer to use the non-racist term "earthworm" (someone who thinks he's just a body, a product of the Earth). Yes, it's still a terrible thing to call someone, but better than the w-word.

Unfortunately, the value of such a word has been reduced by the fact that no one ever uses it other than myself. Like the word "cavige".

CBR also came up with a replacement word -- "meatball".

Helena

So important to be non-racist when dealing with the "earthworms". :biggrin:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
..

I see the crims over at the M&M Show have elaborated on the Lisa McPherson tragedy. Yep, you guessed it, its *all* David Miscagive's fault, and, not only that, the tech works, Clear exists as a verifiable state thanks to the wonderous ability of none other than L Ron Hubbard, and Marty can help you realise it . . . yadda yadda yadda. Its a digusting promotion of Scientology tech leveraged off the death of an innocent.

What's missing from this slick attempt at diversion, obfuscation, and L Ron Hubbard turd polishing are the nuts and bolts of how Rathbun and Rinder managed to secure a not guilty verdict in the criminal case. Where are the details on how the unfortunate coroner was handled, what other witness tampering was carried out, which police offers were paid off, which Scientologists were hidden from the view of authorities, what are the details of the intel capers carried out on the court officials, what evidence was destroyed, altered and manufactured? The list of what is *not* being provided goes on. And, when they feel capable of taking responsibility for their actions in the death of Lisa, how about they do the same in relation to Robert Vaughn Young, Bob Minton, Shawn Lonsdale, Dennis Erlich, Arnaldo Lerma and all the other people they have fucked over.


Aww it's OK. Apparently neither of the two turds actually feel any remorse or horror at what happened to Lisa McPherson. Some annoyance apparently that she was even at Flag and her death dragging them away from their important work helping Miscavige on other projects.

Not a word of embarrassment or remorse about covering it up and working overtime to make sure nothing came back on the "church".

Just blame for Miscavige and excuses from them.

Some of the fawning over Rinder and this interview just leaves me slightly nauseated.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Ortega and Rinder

I stay with stupid. I have no info if he was involved with this theft of a diary. Quite possibly happened before he was sent to handle flaps. But my post wasn't accusative.

I consider Mike and Marty's comments on this as reasonably accurate. The best exposition we have to date. Note that Marty has long ago admitted culpability in destroying evidence in this case.

Anyway, he deletes a post of mine supporting him essentially I can comment here. And for that matter elsewhere.

I believe I'm the only friend he has on this forum. Don't think he considers me as one anymore. So be it.

Terril, I've seen the way he talks to you in the comments - you may be a friend to him, but he's not YOUR friend, and you should just tell him to eff off and get on with your life.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Ortega and Rinder



Another one of your endless and priceless putdowns of Terril over the past years!

Priceless because you denigrate him in this one as being "Thick as a Brick" while not realizing that you and Terril are twins and the only ones running around here posting unsolicited and ill-received wins and success stories from applying Hubbard's spiritual "technology".

Cognition Dissonance?
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Uh, sorta like people here talk to Terrill.

TG1

It's different because of the shared belief system. Instead of chopping him up, Marty should at least treat him with a modicum of the respect he seems to think he himself is entitled. But he does anything but IMO.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
It's different because of the shared belief system. Instead of chopping him up, Marty should at least treat him with a modicum of the respect he seems to think he himself is entitled. But he does anything but IMO.

Never fear, Marty KNOWS, deep down inside, in the shriveled place where there used to be a heart and some courage, that he really does not deserve any respect at all.

He got pwned a long long time ago.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: Ortega and Rinder

You are on the right track here. There are people - five at least - who SAW Lisa McPherson's folders, albeit culled, at the early stages of the trial. Those 5 people know what was in the folders.

Lisa was suicidal after her Sunshine Rundown. Repairs were run. What was bothering her was the "outethics" of her employer, Beneta Slaughter, and Lisa was troubled by them. On that origination in her pc folder, was written in red ink:

"BS is an upstat OT8 in good standing", with a note "Route to Ethics".

So, following Lisa's originations that she was bothered by what she had seen of BS's unethical business practices, she became a target for Ethics, because of what she knew. After that, Lisa's folders indicated that she was being pushed deeper and deeper into psychosis.

Many people were involved, and not only DM.

There are 5 people, out of the Church, ostensibly critics, who saw those folders. Yet not one of them has come forward to testify about this.

There is something very, very wrong and unresolved with the Lisa McPherson case, and Mike Rinder and Marty DEFINITELY know more. As do five others. Of the five others, only one is still a public critic, the other four are quiet.

Until Mike and Marty come clean with full disclosure about what happened to Lisa, they cannot expect their karma to resolve, and Lisa McPherson will continue to haunt them.

Very interesting, Lurkanon . . .

This is the first time I've seen this point regarding her reporting/worrying about the out-eth of her employer who had "status in the Cof$," only to then be spun in with denials of her comm and wrong indications and wrong handlings heaped on her . . . all based on her honest concerns and communication of the out-eth eth observed in one of the "church's" favorites.

This is a bit of a WOWZER! to me . . . I did not have this info . . . and now it all becomes understandable.

She revealed an unpalatable truth (even if mistaken) and she got technically wrongly handled based on the prejudices the Cof$ has for protecting its and its "upstats" good name and PR.

Wow!

How criminally insane and despotic is that!

It is possible the girl was already spiritually fragile . . . but to have an important communication (at least to you) refuted and to be wrongly accused for delivering it, is a sure way to cave anyone in!

The Cof$ has become such an evil monster . . . . :angry::angry:

RogerB
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: Ortega and Rinder

You may be right, but these questions were more intimate and real and difficult than any interview I remember Mike doing. I have the fortune or misfortune of being his friend, who is a clearly stated ex/non scio. I believe the real decompression doesn't start until people speak about things, and do what they can to take responsibility. Mike is really, barely, 2-3 years into a process in my experience that takes 5-10 at best for lifetimers/ex kids. But unfortunately, he is also a public figure, which IMHO makes the healing process and recovery much more difficult, perspectives swing and change radically in the recovery process, if he expresses such publicly he is called a liar, hypocrite, etc. It is impossibly to satisfy everyone, it is a position I wouldn't want to be in.

As a friend, he wouldn't have said or opened up with a quarter of what he did in this interview even a year ago, especially expressing self doubt as to why he did what he did, 1-2 years ago he "knew" all the answers, so I consider it positive. Do I consider he, I and most exes still have a long way to go? Absolutely, and we talk about it frankly every time we visit. IMHO this was a good move in the right direction. Do I consider more of this beneficial to him and others? Absolutely.

IMHO we don't even start to get a sustainable and stable idea of who we are and what we did or are about until a couple years out.

I believe the route out is much tougher and more painful than we realize or can handle in one step. A gradual disentanglement as we were gradually entangled.

I agree, Mike.

I personally was very grateful he has opened up and speaking as he did there.

Too many people expect "perfection" (in the terms of their own hidden, unobtainable standards, unfortunately) . . . . that can only occur at the right time and in the right context.

Right now, Mike R did a wonderful interview that will help many.

He is to be applauded and thanked for it. :yes:

More will come later . . . .

Right now, public opinion is being swung against the Cof$ . . . later, the heavier guns can be brought to bear to more fully handle the monster.

He struck me as honest, well considered and credible. Nice!

Rog
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
In today's edition of the Underground Bunker is an interview with the most recent escapee from international management, Paul Burkhart. He personally witnessed Scientology's international management team being held as prisoners in The Hole:

SCIENTOLOGY’S SPACE MAN: The newest defector from church management opens up

In 2009, Scientology’s fortunes took a major hit when several of its highest ranking former officials talked to the
St. Petersburg (now Tampa Bay) Times for a blockbuster series titled “The Truth Rundown.” Led by Mark “Marty” Rathbun, who at one time ranked second only to Scientology leader David Miscavige himself, these former executives gave the public its first glimpse into a bizarre world that included a private Scientology prison named “The Hole.”

That was also the year that Marc Headley revealed what was happening at Scientology’s secretive California “Int Base” in his book Blown for Good. Since then, these defectors — including Amy Scobee, Mike Rinder, Tom DeVocht, and Jefferson Hawkins — have provided a compelling picture of Scientology that eventually was portrayed last year in Alex Gibney’s Emmy-winning film Going Clear.

But what of more recent defectors from Scientology’s management ranks? In 2012, we profiled John Brousseau, the last person to leave Int Base and go public about it. He drove away from the base one day in 2010.

Getting information about what is happening in Scientology’s upper management has been difficult since these important officials walked away. It’s coming up on six years since Brousseau made his escape and was tracked down by then-spokesman Tommy Davis for a famous encounter. In 2012, two more key Scientology figures left the base, which we reported at the time. One of them, Ron Miscavige Sr., will be telling his story later this year when his book, “If He Dies, He Dies,” is published by St. Martin’s Press. The other escapee, Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s granddaughter Roanne Horwich, has not talked publicly since making her exit.

But now, there is another defector from the ranks of Scientology’s international management who has come forward.

We met him in Seattle, on our book tour. And now, we’re ready to tell his story. His name is Paul Burkhart, and he left the Sea Organization in August 2013.

Not only is his information on the inner workings of Scientology only a couple of years old, he also worked at Int Base from 1999 to 2009 in a key position that allowed him to observe some of the significant events that took place during that time.

For the first time in years, we have a new eyewitness to what happened at Int Base, in the Hole, and with Shelly Miscavige. And we were curious to how his memories stack up to what we’ve been told by Rathbun, Rinder, Headley, Scobee, and Brousseau.

<snip>

Full Post: http://tonyortega.org/2016/02/12/sc...est-defector-from-church-management-opens-up/
 
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