Wanna see brainwashing in real time?

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
But Mike Rinder, yes Mike, is clearly the better fisherman. :coolwink:

Looks like it. [SOAPBOX]And Marty is major fail at catch-and-release tech. :angry: Any fishermen out there note the way he was handling the catch? Particularly that last one where, not paying attention, looks like he pretty much mauls the poor fish's mouth trying to extricate the hook, then has his paws all over it's body (bad form, in terms of the fish body's protective membrane, in other words good chance the fish will die from future infection due to his poor handling).[/SOAPBOX]

Sorry for the mini-rant but, while I haven't fished for more than a couple decades [fresh water bass] fishing was a passion in my youth and was my own personal "grounding tech" which, as it turns out was quite effective for me in its life lessons.
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
That's probably true but that is NOT the point I'm making.

My point is that Mike is telling a story which ridicules DM because of the copper-grounding-tech. Marty comes up with weird reasons for DM doing this and it is obvious (at least to me) that neither Marty nor Mike know that this is a Hubbard recommended action.

It's a piece of Hubb-tech which DM has revived with a modern twist (there probably ain't too many radiators or water pipes in modern auditing rooms). When they criticise this "tech" they are unintentionally (?) criticising Hubbard. This tech has been known about and USED in scientology whilst Hubbard was at the helm.

I did a pretty thorough investigation of it when I first read about it in the 70s, I always questioned ideas that were new to me. I've tried it and used it to turn off a psychotic break (it worked).

I'm not discussing whether or not it's valid or something Hubbard discovered (he didn't) I'm saying that M & M are actually dissing their Homeboy through ignorance of it as a piece of Hubbard-tech.

Point taken and it is a good one.
What I found disgusting was these two worms laughing about the fact that “the only hope for mankind” was now controlled by a psychotic.
If they were so concerned about the whole agonised future of mankind why did they remain namby pamby, pantywaist dilettantes?
Why, in their positions of power, didn’t they show some confront and toss him out??
They're pathetic and that, from me, who hopes the whole convoluted, family destroying, life sucking cult goes down the toilet because that scumbag DM remains in charge.
Now I think I'll have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit.
D.
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
Of course you dare ask.

Yes, there is more spoken/written about it than the reference Paul quoted. I don't recall where and am unlikely to become interested in searching it out. These days, my home is a Hubbard-free environment. At the time when I was questioning the concept, I did see/listen to other references, discussed this principle at length with friends and mentors and read non-Hubbard research on the subject.

Rings a bell with me too. I'll try a quick search, see if anything obvious pops up.
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
I am glad people are leaving CoS. If the Indies mention implants they are simply being consistent with what LRH taught. Mike and Marty want to reach people still inside of CoS and so they cite LRH. From a Scientology perspective, David Miscavige is of course implanted. From my non-Scientology perspective, DM is simply a batshit insane psychotic.

As long as both sides achieve widespread agreement in Culture that DM is a dangerous lunatic, then the means whereby DM became insane are unimportant. Implants or psychosis? Who cares? DM is an insane and violent Cult leader. That is the message to get out to the public.

/////
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
The grounding-wire practice and technique that DM (and allegedly Hubbard) and M & M are talking about is often referred to as "EARTHING".

While there are pseudo scientific claims, what one finds when looking further into appears largely anecdotal and unfounded---or at least not scientifically validated with appropriate protocols and control groups.

Here's a sample blog that talks about the "WOO" of earthing. It is classical skeptical fodder, a debunk beatdown so to speak.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/01/your_friday_dose_of_woo_grounded_in_woo_1.php
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron

images


Yeah, M&M.
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
hahhahahaha!

RINDER
...and Miscavige is all like 'hey just touch this wire and
you go OT!' And I'm all like, 'whatever!' And he's like
all 'no seriously, dude, touch it!' And I'm like, 'no wayyy
dude--that's an electrical wire and I will be electrocuted' and
he's like all 'I promise dude, just step in this water when
you touch it, you'll get the coolest theta cogs, seriously!'

RATHBUN
That's so crazeeee! Ya know, 17 trillion years ago I am
picking up that you were implanted by COB who was a
crazy cult leader telling you crazy stories about the wholetrack.....

RINDER
(thinking "FUCK OFF YOU MORON!")
Yeah, that indicates.


Me thinks, this could be a great start for a new reality show. The video! Them two don't even need HH's brilliant writing skills, although it doesn't hurt. Priceless.
 
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SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
From Scn 8-80:
This vibration, theoretically, can increase to a strong current which becomes so great it is well to ground your preclear by using an E-Meter or letting him hold a wire in each hand which is connected to a bare water pipe or radiator. Otherwise, his MEST body may be damaged by the flow.​
Paul
Well I'll be.. Hornswoggeled.. I didn't know that.. That it was honest to Hubturd tech.. I should've known, since I did read that book once. (Hmm.. Forgetting about that after 30 years.. I must've gone past an MU?)

<snip> Whether or not it works as postulated is open to debate. Perhaps the person just being convinced of the idea that the over-restimulated charge is "bleeding off" to earth is sufficient to produce the results observed.
I think that's right.. The 'hubbo-tech' works when it's believed in. So does yoga and Astrology.. And a lot of things.. I'm reminded of my kids when they were small.. When they got 'hysterical' we used some hubbo-tech to handle. Picking the kid up and showing him stuff: "Look at that door!" - "Thank's!" - "Look at that coffeepot!" - "Thank's".. That actually worked.. By making the kid think, or perceive, something else than whatever he was pissed about.

<snip> I'm saying that someone who was in the middle of a psychotic break and in no frame of mind to touch a pair of e-meter cans was asked quietly to take hold of a water pipe and hold it for about 5 minutes. The person did as she was asked and immediately calmed down, after about 5 minutes the person smiled and said "It's gone!" She was out of the psychotic break. There was no prior suggestion that the charge would bleed off in this particular instance but the person may have known of the concept.<snip>
I'm not surprized.. By reason of my explanation above.. But precisely this was what I wanted to comment on:

What exactly does Scientology staff consider a psychotic break?

When someone get's so royally pissed about the incessant demands for money? - The suffocating invasion of personal, spiritual, privacy? - The invalidation from registrars when he/she declines to pay up?

The pressure can be tremendous! - For someone who believes it all and considers it 'reality'..

So he might get 'hysterical', yelling bloody murder and 'Shut the fuck up you assholes!!!"

And this is when scientologists will 'diagnose' a psychotic break!

I've seen it happen.. I've been so very close to do it myself. I was in a room with four scientologists, who wanted to 'handle' me and sell me services worth 6 months pay (wog job). No way I could afford it.. I was considering whether I could clobber them all and get out. One was behind me guarding the door. There was a big bloke I needed to avoid. But I thought it possible that I could whack the doorguard away and get out fast. Problem was that I hadn't noticed if the door was locked or not... Well, I kept my calm.

I knew all about what could possibly happen. I'd been staff at the Guardian's Office after all.. These crazy zealots would judge me to have a 'psychotic break' and lock me up. Possibly declare me an SP, which was important to me at the time. I was married to a true blue Scientologist.

:yes:
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Originally Posted by Panda Termint View Post
<snip> I'm saying that someone who was in the middle of a psychotic break and in no frame of mind to touch a pair of e-meter cans was asked quietly to take hold of a water pipe and hold it for about 5 minutes. The person did as she was asked and immediately calmed down, after about 5 minutes the person smiled and said "It's gone!" She was out of the psychotic break. There was no prior suggestion that the charge would bleed off in this particular instance but the person may have known of the concept.<snip>
When my highly strung friend starts spinning with too many thoughts and emotions, I force him to take off his shoes and stand and "ground" himself. Does it work? Sure!
Is it really because he is grounding himself with his shoes off, honestly I doubt it, I think it is a simple redirection technique that works very well with his personality and belief in the spirit and nature of the earth.
By the time he is outside in his bare feet, his mind is probably more on "humouring" me and feeling a bit of an idiot and less on the runaway thoughts.

He swears it works everytime.
But if I felt he was in full on nervous breakdown, I would call a doctor, immediately. Pseudo-therapies can trick the mind to a certain point, beyond that point though is irresponsible.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
"This vibration, theoretically, can increase to a strong current which becomes so great it is well to ground your preclear by using an E-Meter or letting him hold a wire in each hand which is connected to a bare water pipe or radiator. Otherwise, his MEST body may be damaged by the flow." - Hubbard


Using Ron's Data Series, I have discovered that the most "grounded" all-powerful OT must therefore be a Plumber.

2978756182_027a4c2509.jpg
 

Wisened One

Crusader
HH: At exactly which point in that first YT link were you referring to. I thought ALL of Mike's expressions/reactions were sorta priceless.

The whole video (and stories) are completely batshit NUTS! :yes: :laugh: And to think at one point, WE took this stuff seriously and would 'rationalize' that if we heard it as dedicated brainwashologists! :eyeroll: :faceslap:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I am glad people are leaving CoS. If the Indies mention implants they are simply being consistent with what LRH taught. Mike and Marty want to reach people still inside of CoS and so they cite LRH. From a Scientology perspective, David Miscavige is of course implanted. From my non-Scientology perspective, DM is simply a batshit insane psychotic.

As long as both sides achieve widespread agreement in Culture that DM is a dangerous lunatic, then the means whereby DM became insane are unimportant. Implants or psychosis? Who cares? DM is an insane and violent Cult leader. That is the message to get out to the public.

/////

The 'message' to get out to the public is that the 'Church' of Scientology is a criminal organization that needs to be investigated and *prosecuted*. No amount of whining about David Miscavige's 'psychosis' or 'implants' is going to accomplish that; in fact, as practiced by Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, the deflection of attention to David Miscavige alone, including to his 'psychoses' is intended to *protect* the 'Church' from outside investigation and prosecution, by suggesting that the only crimes are the relatively minor claims of personal battery and abuse compounded by unpleasant personal characteristics.

Investigate and prosecute the *Church* and David Miscavige as a problem is eliminated. Whine about David Miscavige alone and the 'Church' *and* David Miscavige get a pass.

Zinj
 

Wisened One

Crusader
The 'message' to get out to the public is that the 'Church' of Scientology is a criminal organization that needs to be investigated and *prosecuted*. No amount of whining about David Miscavige's 'psychosis' or 'implants' is going to accomplish that; in fact, as practiced by Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, the deflection of attention to David Miscavige alone, including to his 'psychoses' is intended to *protect* the 'Church' from outside investigation and prosecution, by suggesting that the only crimes are the relatively minor claims of personal battery and abuse compounded by unpleasant personal characteristics.

Investigate and prosecute the *Church* and David Miscavige as a problem is eliminated. Whine about David Miscavige alone and the 'Church' *and* David Miscavige get a pass.

Zinj

:goodposting: Zinj! :yes:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
That's probably true but that is NOT the point I'm making.

My point is that Mike is telling a story which ridicules DM because of the copper-grounding-tech. Marty comes up with weird reasons for DM doing this and it is obvious (at least to me) that neither Marty nor Mike know that this is a Hubbard recommended action.

It's a piece of Hubb-tech which DM has revived with a modern twist (there probably ain't too many radiators or water pipes in modern auditing rooms). When they criticise this "tech" they are unintentionally (?) criticising Hubbard. This tech has been known about and USED in scientology whilst Hubbard was at the helm.

I did a pretty thorough investigation of it when I first read about it in the 70s, I always questioned ideas that were new to me. I've tried it and used it to turn off a psychotic break (it worked).

I'm not discussing whether or not it's valid or something Hubbard discovered (he didn't) I'm saying that M & M are actually dissing their Homeboy through ignorance of it as a piece of Hubbard-tech.

Yes, I get this, certainly. And that does make M & M look pretty stupid. They are actually being good PR for the church. Yikes!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Originally Posted by Wisened One
HH: At exactly which point in that first YT link were you referring to.

WO, it's too good a wine to not to sip slowly and savor...enjoy!

(7:21) RATHBUN: "You know it seems to me, you know what that really is...I mean this is just my own technical opinion--having read and listened a lot--it seems to me that is is a dramatization of an implant of some sort...."

MIKE RINDER: "Yeah WHATEVER it is, it's --"

RATHBUN (interrupting) "No i think what I'm saying is it's completely the reverse, I mean this guys got every thing reversed, I mean you can go read History of Man or Technique 88 or Wholetrack Lecture Series and I think you'll find find the description of implants that... you know what i am saying? They kind of have that type of symbolism, that type of stage scene setup...you know what I'm saying? Wow, that's unbelievable! (then without missing a beat, suddenly and calmly, pretending as if nothing has just happened) Where are you getting those---you're gettin' the sand trout and the reds, are you gettin' it in the middle of the channel?"

The BEFORE and AFTER are just two good-old-boys sittin' and fishin'. Marty is play acting at super-normalcy. That's how he sells it. One second he is trillions of years down the wholetrack locating implants that he has determined COB is dramatizing. The next second he's simple-Marty-earthman, just as concerned about locating a sand trout.

Yes, Marty, as you say..."...that's unbelivable!" (your acting)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
The next time you hear somebody saying: "But Marty gets so many people out!"

Remember this....

RATHBUN: "You know it seems to me, you know what that really is...I mean this is just my own technical opinion--having read and listened a lot--it seems to me that is is a dramatization of an implant of some sort.No i think what I'm saying is it's completely the reverse, I mean this guys got every thing reversed, I mean you can go read History of Man or Technique 88 or Wholetrack Lecture Series and I think you'll find find the description of implants that... you know what i am saying? They kind of have that type of symbolism, that type of stage scene setup...you know what I'm saying?"

That is not "out".

That is about as far "in" as you can get to the blind, moronic delusion called Scientology.

Wholetrack and Implants and Liars, Oh My! If you think that's "out" you're "in".

Marty asks the repetetive question, "You know what I'm saying?"

Yes, Marty, unfortunately for you, I know EXACTLY what you are saying. The same exact thing those crazy con men "The Commodore", "Captain Bill" and "COB" are saying.
 
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SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Well, Marty's right.. DM -ARE- dramatizing an implant of some sort.. Not some sort of implant 76 millions years ago in a dentists chair with electrodes on his nuts and top of his scull removed wearing a braindryer helmet having 'blackness' dumped on him... etc.. and so forth..

Nothing that dramatic.. It was an ordinary Hubbard implant!

Now a question of some interest (to me anyway) emerges...

Mike Rinder expressed incredulity and a measure of dismay at the humiliation that DM subjected hiim to.. By holding that groundwire, to have his excess enturbulative charge bleed off into the gound..

Indeed Mike Rinder thought it was insane and squirrely..

If Mike Rinder had known it was real and actual Hubbard 'tech'.. Would he have enjoyed the 'process'?

Now that groundwire tech has been proven to be actual Hubbard tech.. Does Mike Rinder now realize that he did get gains and wins from the process?

Hmm? :unsure:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Well, Marty's right.. DM -ARE- dramatizing an implant of some sort.. Not some sort of implant 76 millions years ago in a dentists chair with electrodes on his nuts and top of his scull removed wearing a braindryer helmet having 'blackness' dumped on him... etc.. and so forth..

Nothing that dramatic.. It was an ordinary Hubbard implant!

Now a question of some interest (to me anyway) emerges...

Mike Rinder expressed incredulity and a measure of dismay at the humiliation that DM subjected hiim to.. By holding that groundwire, to have his excess enturbulative charge bleed off into the gound..

Indeed Mike Rinder thought it was insane and squirrely..

If Mike Rinder had known it was real and actual Hubbard 'tech'.. Would he have enjoyed the 'process'?

Now that groundwire tech has been proven to be actual Hubbard tech.. Does Mike Rinder now realize that he did get gains and wins from the process?

Hmm? :unsure:


:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

SUCCESS STORY

Mike Rinder
Grounding Rundown Completion

I have just spent several hours sitting in the dirt, holding onto a copper
wire while upstat Int Execs stared and pointed at me in disgust. I now
realize that my dramatizations were unfounded and ungrounded. Now
that Ron has given me the priceless grounding tech, I know I will never
dramatize again, no matter what implants I receive. I want all of you to
rush into your local bookstore and buy a standard LRH grounding package
which comes with copper wires and official LRH soil to bury it in. Don't be
fooled by imitations, LRH certified dirt is the only dirt that works!
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
from 'Catch 22' - Joseph Heller:
------------------------------------

"Are you both crazy?" the doctor cried shrilly, backing away in paling confusion.

"Yes, he really is crazy, Doc," Dunbar assured him. "Every night he dreams he's holding a live fish in his hands."

The doctor stopped in his tracks with a look of elegant amazement and distaste, and the ward grew still. "He does what?" he demanded.

"He dreams he's holding a live fish in his hand."

"What kind of fish?" the doctor inquired sternly of Yossarian.

"I don't know," Yossarian answered. "I can't tell one kind of fish from another."

"In which hand do you hold them?"

"It varies," answered Yossarian.

"It varies with the fish," Dunbar added helpfully.

The colonel turned and stared down at Dunbar suspiciously with a narrow squint. "Yes? And how come you seem to know so much about it?"

"I'm in the dream," Dunbar answered without cracking a smile.

The colonel's face flushed with embarrassment. He glared at them both with cold, unforgiving resentment. "Get up off the floor and into your bed," he directed Dunbar through thin lips. "And I don't want to hear another word about this dream from either one of you. I've got a man on my staff to listen to disgusting bilge like this."

"Just why do you think," carefully inquired Major Sanderson, the soft and thickset smiling staff psychiatrist to whom the colonel had ordered Yossarian sent, "that Colonel Ferredge finds your dream disgusting?"

Yossarian replied respectfully. "I suppose it's either some quality in the dream or some quality in Colonel Ferredge."

"That's very well put," applauded Major Sanderson, who wore squeaking GI shoes and had charcoal-black hair that stood up almost straight. "For some reason," he confided, "Colonel Ferredge has always reminded me of a sea gull. He doesn't put much faith in psychiatry, you know."

"You don't like sea gulls, do you?" inquired Yossarian.

"No, not very much," admitted Major Sanderson with a sharp, nervous laugh and pulled at his pendulous second chin lovingly as though it were a long goatee. "I think your dream is charming, and I hope it recurs frequently so that we can continue discussing it. Would you like a cigarette?" He smiled when Yossarian declined. "Just why do you think," he asked knowingly, "that you have such a strong aversion to accepting a cigarette from me?"

"I put one out a second ago. It's still smoldering in your ash tray."

Major Sanderson chuckled. "That's a very ingenious explanation. But I suppose we'll soon discover the true reason." He tied a sloppy double bow in his opened shoelace and then transferred a lined yellow pad from his desk to his lap. "This fish you dream about. Let's talk about that. It's always the same fish, isn't it?"

"I don't know," Yossarian replied. "I have trouble recognizing fish."

"What does the fish remind you of?"

"Other fish."

"And what do other fish remind you of?"

"Other fish."

Major Sanderson sat back disappointedly. "Do you like fish?"

"Not especially."

"Just why do you think you have such a morbid aversion to fish?" asked Major Sanderson triumphantly.

"They're too bland," Yossarian answered. "And too bony."

Major Sanderson nodded understandingly, with a smile that was agreeable and insincere. "That's a very interesting explanation. But we'll soon discover the true reason, I suppose. Do you like this particular fish? The one you're holding in your hand?"

"I have no feelings about it either way."

"Do you dislike the fish? Do you have any hostile or aggressive emotions toward it?"

"No, not at all. In fact, I rather like the fish."

"Then you do like the fish."

"Oh, no. I have no feelings toward it either way."

"But you just said you liked it. And now you say you have no feelings toward it either way. I've just caught you in a contradiction. Don't you see?"

"Yes, sir. I suppose you have caught me in a contradiction."

Major Sanderson proudly lettered "Contradiction" on his pad with his thick black pencil. "Just why do you think," he resumed when he had finished, looking up, "that you made those two statements expressing contradictory emotional responses to the fish?"

"I suppose I have an ambivalent attitude toward it."

Major Sanderson sprang up with joy when he heard the words "ambivalent attitude". "You do understand!" he exclaimed, wringing his hands together ecstatically. "Oh, you can't imagine how lonely it's been for me, talking day after day to patients who haven't the slightest knowledge of psychiatry, trying to cure people who have no real interest in me or my work! It's given me such a terrible feeling of inadequacy." A shadow of anxiety crossed his face. "I can't seem to shake it."

"Really?" asked Yossarian, wondering what else to say. "Why do you blame yourself for gaps in the education of others?"

"It's silly, I know," Major Sanderson replied uneasily with a giddy, involuntary laugh. "But I've always depended very heavily on the good opinion of others. I reached puberty a bit later than all the other boys my age, you see, and it's given me sort of - well, all sorts of problems. I just know I'm going to enjoy discussing them with you. I'm so eager to begin that I'm almost reluctant to digress now to your problem, but I'm afraid I must. Colonel Ferredge would be cross if he knew we were spending all our time on me. I'd like to show you some ink blots now to find out what certain shapes and colors remind you of."

"You can save yourself the trouble, Doctor. Everything reminds me of sex."

"Does it?" cried Major Sanderson with delight, as though unable to believe his ears. "Now we're really getting somewhere! Do you ever have any good sex dreams?"

"My fish dream is a sex dream."

"No, I mean real sex dreams - the kind where you grab some naked bitch by the neck and pinch her and punch her in the face until she's all bloody and then throw yourself down to ravish her and burst into tears because you love her and hate her so much you don't know what else to do. That's the kind of sex dreams I like to talk about. Don't you ever have sex dreams like that?"

Yossarian reflected a moment with a wise look. "That's a fish dream," he decided.
------------------------------------

Zinj
 
WO, it's too good a wine to not to sip slowly and savor...enjoy!

(7:21) RATHBUN: "You know it seems to me, you know what that really is...I mean this is just my own technical opinion--having read and listened a lot--it seems to me that is is a dramatization of an implant of some sort...."

MIKE RINDER: "Yeah WHATEVER it is, it's --"

RATHBUN (interrupting) "No i think what I'm saying is it's completely the reverse, I mean this guys got every thing reversed, I mean you can go read History of Man or Technique 88 or Wholetrack Lecture Series and I think you'll find find the description of implants that... you know what i am saying? They kind of have that type of symbolism, that type of stage scene setup...you know what I'm saying? Wow, that's unbelievable! (then without missing a beat, suddenly and calmly, pretending as if nothing has just happened) Where are you getting those---you're gettin' the sand trout and the reds, are you gettin' it in the middle of the channel?"

The BEFORE and AFTER are just two good-old-boys sittin' and fishin'. Marty is play acting at super-normalcy. That's how he sells it. One second he is trillions of years down the wholetrack locating implants that he has determined COB is dramatizing. The next second he's simple-Marty-earthman, just as concerned about locating a sand trout.

Yes, Marty, as you say..."...that's unbelivable!" (your acting)

Fishing construct = copper wire *earthing* to keep the audience
from getting lost in loonacy.
 
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