Warning from Mark Fisher - Beware Scientology Deprogrammers

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
From WWP with gratitude: Warning from Mark Fisher - Beware Scientology Deprogrammers
Attention all former International/Gold Base Sea Org Members:

DM has his own team of DEPROGRAMMERS out in the field attempting to recapture and return you to his abusive control.

Their names are Marion Pauw, Hansueli Stahli and Mike Sutter.

They are all former failed RTC executives, some of whom have spent time in DM’s SP Hall at the Int base and have been witnesses to many of his abusive tactics for many years.

Currently, they are acting as DEPROGRAMMERS attempting to take away your freedom.

(This has been reported recently elsewhere on the web, but it is important that Anonymous know what is going on and why it is a danger to former Sea Org members out there and to help get the word out.)

Remember the many bad dreams you’ve had since leaving the Sea Org about having been returned to the Int/Gold Base and wondered why you are back there? Many former members have had them.

Well those dreams are becoming reality right now.

These 3 thugs are contacting former Int staff who were discarded by DM and thrown out of the Sea Org after years of dedicated service and making all sorts of false promises to get them to return to Scientology and rejoin the group, leaving behind their new found freedom, family and friends.

Scientology used to call people who helped family members recover their former brothers, sisters, sons and daughters from the grips of Scientology Deprogrammers and compared them to common criminals.

Well Pauw, Stahli and Sutter are no different. They are Deprogrammers.

Don’t trust them if you value your family, friends, and new life outside the grips of David Miscavige and his abusive behavior.

Here is a recent example of their criminal actions to put a real face to this story.

This is a photo of me and my friend Neel Smeed/Bogard/Lobato taken with my camera:




Neel is from Denmark and lives in Copenhagen. She joined Scientology and the Sea Org when she was a teenager in the early 80s. After awhile, she arrived at the Int/Gold Base and became friends with myself and my wife at the time. She was a hard working, dedicated Sea Org member who loved Scientology and helping others. She has a very big heart and if a very loving and thoughful person. Anyone would be proud to call her their friend.

After I left in September 1990, we lost touch due to disconnection policy that Scientology denies exists.

Neel stayed for another 14 years working in the Sea Org. During that time, she spent long periods in the Scientology gulag known as the RPF.

She was eventually sent to New York City along with her husband to work on renovating the new Scientology building. During that project, DM sent someone from RTC to New York and Neel, her husband and several others were sent back to California to what was known as the PAC Ranch to be offloaded from Scientology and the Sea Org. They were not given any reason why after all their years of dedicated service they were being sent away.

Instead, they were given $500 and some of their personal belongings and sent off in a U-Haul Truck, not knowing where to turn or what to do.

They ended up in the San Francisco area where her husband’s family, out of the goodness of their hearts, helped them get on their feet. Eventually Neel and her husband went their separate ways and she moved back to her native Denmark to be close to her family and get an education.

No one else in her family was involved with Scientology and they were glad to see her after many years. Neel regretted missing her family during those years and also regretted not having her own family (children) due to the strict rules at the Int Base of NO KIDS.

Her family was very happy to see her again. She started to go to college and get her degree, first in nursing and then in business accounting. She reconnected with her former high school sweetheart. She got a good job doing accounting work.

She began traveling and seeing the world again and reconnecting with her former Sea Org member friends who were also out and living their lives.

We reconnected during this time and became close friends. She came to visit me in Las Vegas with her boyfriend and her former husband and we also traveled to the Grand Canyon and other National Parks. Neel loved being in the outdoors.

I took this photo of Neel at the Grand Canyon last year with my camera:




She just recently got her own place out in the countryside outside Copenhagen and got herself a new dog who she loves dearly. Life in other words was looking good and she was enjoying her freedom.

Then a few weeks ago, she was contacted by DM’s Deprogrammers and asked to come in for a visit. Although Neel was out of the Sea Org, she still considered herself a Scientologist and believed in the LRH Technology.

Shortly thereafter, she began disconnecting from her friends in the real world who were former Int/Gold staff members.

What did these deprogramming thugs do to Neel to get her to turn away from her new life and return to the control of DM and his abusive practices?

No one on the outside knows. For many, they offer reducing their freeloader debt to the Sea Org and promise them they can get back on the Scientology Bridge and eventually their OT levels. In practice over the years, that has been a false promise. They will NEVER be allowed to do their OT levels.

Neel’s friends out here in the real world would like to tell her something if she happens to read this posting somewhere (she has in the past checked the internet):

WE, WHO ARE YOUR REAL FRIENDS, LOVE YOU NEEL! (Love- a concept not understood by DM)

We will welcome you back when you come to your senses and realize the mistake you have made. No hard feelings at this end. We just want you to come back to your life and be happy again. Being under the control of DM and any false or hollow promises made to you is not the way to live life. It is a trap and unfortunately you were pulled into it again.

DM will never let you get your OT Levels, if that is what you desire and he will discard you as soon as he is done with you, just like the Skoal Bandit tobacco plugs he would throw into the trash can after getting his hourly nicotine fix.

There are others out there being contacted by these Deprogrammers. They are using everything in their bag of tricks to get you to go back. Don’t believe them.

They are preying on the weak. DM will never come back after people that actually worked with LRH and know what his intentions were for the future of Scientology. I dare them to contact me. They won’t because they know where I will tell them to stick it.

So if you get a phone call from Pauw, Stahli or Sutter, refuse to see them and don’t get trapped.
Otherwise you may end up living out those nightmares so many of us former members have had since leaving.

It's okay to post this story on any thread on the Net. Please help get the word out.

Mark Fisher
 

ILived1984!

Patron with Honors
I knew Neel while I was in NYC and knew both of her husbands. Neel was always a very nice and caring person dedicated to the SO and Scn. I really hope she goes back to her friends. I've never seen or personally experienced such rampant severing of frienships. It happened to me again a couple weeks ago.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Thanks for the warning about "fake" deprogrammers, but one should also be aware that there will be ambulance-chasing variety of deprogrammers out to cream as much off the top as they can while the iron is still hot.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
One thing that we can forget is that people like Neel, and even rathbun, Koon, Lindstein and the rest is that they have been continuously subjected over decades to ruthless conditioning. When they get out, unless they take the time to really rid themselves of it all it is still easy to re-awaken all that conditioning.

Especially when those being re-programmed are still true believers. All they need is someone to persuade them that "things are different now".

Very sad. Have to remember that Neel has seen, with her own eyes, how bad it is and how much it does not work - and yet she is still programmed enough to start disconnecting from her friends.
 
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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
You Speak the True Reality

One thing that we can forget is that people like Neel, and even rathbun, Koon, Lindstein and the rest is that they have been continuously subjected over decades to ruthless conditioning. When they get out, unless they take the time to really rid themselves of it all it is still easy to re-awaken all that conditioning.

Especially when those being re-programmed are still true believers. All they need is someone to persuade them that "things are different now".

Very sad. Have to remember that Neel has seen, with ehr own eyes, how bad it is and how much it does not work - and yet she is still programmed enough to start disconnecting from her friends.

It is a sad story.

What is often missing info, at least on this board, is the fact that anyone can

do all steps on the Bridge at fair exchange (usually) somewhere in the world,

so DM's game of denying someone there OT levels is no longer (if it ever was)

in his dirty hands.

I would hope Neel and others find that out.
 

number 6

Patron
One thing that we can forget is that people like Neel, and even rathbun, Koon, Lindstein and the rest is that they have been continuously subjected over decades to ruthless conditioning. When they get out, unless they take the time to really rid themselves of it all it is still easy to re-awaken all that conditioning.

Especially when those being re-programmed are still true believers. All they need is someone to persuade them that "things are different now".

Very sad. Have to remember that Neel has seen, with ehr own eyes, how bad it is and how much it does not work - and yet she is still programmed enough to start disconnecting from her friends.

Saddam Hussein tried that trick with his two sons-in-law who fled to Jordan. He convinced them that things were different and they would not be punished. Well, guess what he did. He had them gunned down.

To anyone reading, do not be convinced that things are different. They are not and never will be even if Miscavige is deposed. Things will only be different if the tech is exposed for the toxic poison it is.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh my god!!!

Now I understand........! She was telling me a very secret story about my brother and then when I asked her for more information she refused to tell me anything.

May you please help me to get in contact with her family Mark? Thank you for this very important information.

Love

Markus
 
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Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Saddam Hussein tried that trick with his two sons-in-law who fled to Jordan. He convinced them that things were different and they would not be punished. Well, guess what he did. He had them gunned down.

To anyone reading, do not be convinced that things are different. They are not and never will be even if Miscavige is deposed. Things will only be different if the tech is exposed for the toxic poison it is.

I guess Hussein's in-laws weren't vicious enough. His own son, Uday, was quite capable of sitting down to lunch while watching one of his victims being dismembered.

Perhaps that's where DM got his 'training'.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
May you please help me to get in contact with her family Mark? Thank you for this very important information.

Love

Markus
Marcus,

Please understand that Mark Fisher is not on this board. He posts on a board known as Why We Protest (WWP). His original WWP post is here.

I try to monitor both ESMB and WWP. If I see something on ESMB that I think will be of interest on WWP, I cross-post it to WWP. Conversely, if I see something on WWP that I think will be of interest on ESMB, I cross-post it to ESMB. That is where the OP of this thread came from. I found Mark Fisher's post on WWP and cross-posted it here. Mark Fisher is not here to respond to your request.

Normally I would cross-post your request to WWP and/or try to contact Mark Fisher by PM on WWP. However, I noticed that in your original post about your brother you stated:
"Please let the following information within this board as long as I have not decided yet as I said in this case should proceed!"
I also see that you have previously stated that you do not want the story of your brother's death to be "exploited" or "used," etc. Therefore, out of respect for your wishes, I have not yet posted anything, or contacted Mark, on WWP. (I will note, however, that somebody posted your story on WWP before they knew that you wanted the story restricted.)

So the question is, how do you want to proceed? Do you want to contact Mark Fisher by PM on WWP to get the information you want? If not, is it ok for me to do so? Do you want to post on WWP? If not, is it ok for me to do so?

I ask because, as noted above, you were requesting information from someone, Mark Fisher, who is not on this board. I just want to make sure you get the help, but only the help, you want.
 

nowout

Patron with Honors
Question from WWP:

*****

Also, I see there has been no response to the previous question from WWP:


Mike Sutter is the guy who's third from the left (1st: Greg Wilhere 2nd: Marty Rathbun) in front.

moz-screenshot.png
 

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Carmel

Crusader
Yep, awful. What a sad, sad, thing.

One thing that we can forget is that people like Neel, and even rathbun, Koon, Lindstein and the rest is that they have been continuously subjected over decades to ruthless conditioning. When they get out, unless they take the time to really rid themselves of it all it is still easy to re-awaken all that conditioning.

Especially when those being re-programmed are still true believers. All they need is someone to persuade them that "things are different now".

Very sad. Have to remember that Neel has seen, with her own eyes, how bad it is and how much it does not work - and yet she is still programmed enough to start disconnecting from her friends.

In regard to what I've bolded above, that's one of the main reasons why I have feared Marty's activities........Those who get sucked into or buy his "lines", won't look any further and won't get the chance to be free. They are a sitting duck for re-programmers like these ones.
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
The Leaving-Disconnecting-Returning Cycle

Food for Thought:

The Leaving and Disconnecting from Scientology and then returning is the same phenomon seen in domestic abuse situations or in persons addictive to subtances or chemicals.

The abuser abuse, the abused leave, the abuser re-connects with the abused and the abused return to the abusive situation and so the cycle continues. The abused always believing he/she can change the situation in some way, make it better or improving it often blaming themselves for the failure of the situation never being resolved, or feeling guilty that he/she never made enough effort and if given an "another" chance, the victim feels he/she can change the circumstances.

This is what is happening in the wog world in cases of dometic abuse and is no different from what we are seeing here with Scientology. To truly understand this vicious cycle, learn about domestic abuse and children growing up in domestic abuse situations.

It is said, that it takes the abused about 8 tries before he/she can leave the situation, an evil cycle of leaving-returning-leaving-returning and that is exactly what is happening here.

It proves and is testimony that Scientology is abusive. Sometimes we miss the most obvious because it is happening in front of eyes nevertheless, it is there.

So, the message here is that when you know someone who has gotten out, help them and teach them about the evil cycle of abuse. The more you know thing.... educate those whom left. Merely having a few moments or years of freedom does not assure the abused will not return.

It is similar to addictive behaviour if one was addicted to substance or chemicals. It is similar in the sense that the "victim", those prone to addiction but the narrow line when addiction ends as opposed to continues is when the person know or realize that it IS an addictive situation/behaviour and make the decison not to continue the cycle but unfortunately, that may not be enough. Once an addict always an addict, a never ending dependancy.

The message here is to warn those whom you know that are out and gently remind them of the addiction that once possessed them is toxic. Scientology is toxic and it might as well in my opinion be labeled as an addiction because it is never ending cycle where the "victim" or abused will never be free of the toxin.

Anyone get my point here? Love, help, support. I am not sure if that would have change the outcome of this thread but certainly, if you know someone who is out, check up on them and make sure they are still here in the free world and give them tons of love, kisses and hugs because that is something in Scientology that is not allowed nor does Scio know how to surpress LOVE.

So, if you know someone.... give them a bear hug and let them know how much you love them and you'll be there for them and you will never let go. If that someone returns to Scio, makes sure they know your phone number by heart before they return, adn you'll be there anytime of day or night.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
Originally Posted by Mick Wenlock
One thing that we can forget is that people like Neel, and even rathbun, Koon, Lindstein and the rest is that they have been continuously subjected over decades to ruthless conditioning. When they get out, unless they take the time to really rid themselves of it all it is still easy to re-awaken all that conditioning.

Especially when those being re-programmed are still true believers. All they need is someone to persuade them that "things are different now".

In the probably hundreds of calls I got to try and get me to buy the basics, this line was very often used. I was told: "I heard the late 70s early 80s were bad times, crazy things happened. It's different now" ...."Tech is totally standard now"... etc. etc. Any time I brought up something about how bad it was for SO staff back then, that line was pushed.

I guess the thing is that anyone wavering needs to know that in fact it is much worse now.:omg:
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
In the probably hundreds of calls I got to try and get me to buy the basics, this line was very often used. I was told: "I heard the late 70s early 80s were bad times, crazy things happened. It's different now" ...."Tech is totally standard now"... etc. etc. Any time I brought up something about how bad it was for SO staff back then, that line was pushed.

I guess the thing is that anyone wavering needs to know that in fact it is much worse now.:omg:



But things are "different"...they are much worse!:D But that's actually not a joke.
 
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