Warning On Purif-Style Megavitamins

[Helena Handbasket]

I've been taking high doses of Niacin and Vitamin C every day and I think they may have hurt me.

Years ago, before Scientology, I was into this thing called Orthomolecular Psychiatry. There are several flavours of this, but my doctor had me on heavy doses of Niacin, Vitamin B6, and Vitamin C. This sort of therapy is hard to come by these days, having been rejected by mainstreamists.

The bane of every talk therapy is when it is suspected there is a functional "underlying cause" to someone's symptoms, such as an emotional trauma. But attempts to discuss it fail, because the patient has totally repressed it. Orthomolecular Psychiatry attempts to "break through" this barrier of repression with the vitamins. It actually does this quite well.

Once I had been on the vitamins for a while, I said my issues were exposed and I was ready to discuss them. "Oh no," said my doctor, "just keep taking the vitamins". Now I had my trauma in my face, and I was hurting. So I stopped.

The big problem with this, complain the doctors, is that people don't keep taking the vitamins. It's obvious why -- it may be a good thing to scrape off the layers of repression, but that's not enough.

I believe L. Ron Hubbard got into this data and that's where the Purification Rundown came from. There's a lot of nonsense about purifying the body, but with one's issues exposed, and a prohibition on psychiatric drugs, what's left? I think the true secret EP of the Purif is when the newbie decides they need auditing.

Scientology is against drugs because they provide a "chemical release", moving charge away rather than erasing it. But if you let all your problems come in at you at once, you go insane. (It certainly felt that way to me for a while.)

I've stopped taking the aforementioned vitamins (except for the relatively low doses contained in my daily multivitamin pill) and I am much more stable emotionally. In another thread I wrote about how badly I've been feeling -- that's no longer the case.

To make absolutely sure this change to my vitamin schedule is the reason for my improvement, I'm going to have to start them again down the road and see if I backslide. But I'll save that for another time.

Helena

 

[RogerB]

Helena,

This info attached is copied across from a pdf book titled "Awakening from "Alzheimer's. The formatting will be off in certain areas, but I hope I cleaned up the part dealing with B vitamins . . . big references on niacin and niacinamide. These vitamins do indeed have a huge affect on the "mind" and what is available out of it.

For you oldies here, I do recommend this book . . . it has some brilliant answers for those in need of help or cure and certainly is important info from the perspective of prevention of deterioration.

Though one thing, if anyone take continued high doses of niacin, be sure to get enough calcium as niacin will leach the calcium out of your system.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

I'm sure too little is as bad as too much, Roger. Let no one who needs extra vitamins be dissuaded by anything I said.

Helena

 

[Terril park]

I've been taking high doses of Niacin and Vitamin C every day and I think they may have hurt me.

Years ago, before Scientology, I was into this thing called Orthomolecular Psychiatry. There are several flavours of this, but my doctor had me on heavy doses of Niacin, Vitamin B6, and Vitamin C. This sort of therapy is hard to come by these days, having been rejected by mainstreamists.

The bane of every talk therapy is when it is suspected there is a functional "underlying cause" to someone's symptoms, such as an emotional trauma. But attempts to discuss it fail, because the patient has totally repressed it. Orthomolecular Psychiatry attempts to "break through" this barrier of repression with the vitamins. It actually does this quite well.

Once I had been on the vitamins for a while, I said my issues were exposed and I was ready to discuss them. "Oh no," said my doctor, "just keep taking the vitamins". Now I had my trauma in my face, and I was hurting. So I stopped.

The big problem with this, complain the doctors, is that people don't keep taking the vitamins. It's obvious why -- it may be a good thing to scrape off the layers of repression, but that's not enough.

I believe L. Ron Hubbard got into this data and that's where the Purification Rundown came from. There's a lot of nonsense about purifying the body, but with one's issues exposed, and a prohibition on psychiatric drugs, what's left? I think the true secret EP of the Purif is when the newbie decides they need auditing.

Scientology is against drugs because they provide a "chemical release", moving charge away rather than erasing it. But if you let all your problems come in at you at once, you go insane. (It certainly felt that way to me for a while.)

I've stopped taking the aforementioned vitamins (except for the relatively low doses contained in my daily multivitamin pill) and I am much more stable emotionally. In another thread I wrote about how badly I've been feeling -- that's no longer the case.

To make absolutely sure this change to my vitamin schedule is the reason for my improvement, I'm going to have to start them again down the road and see if I backslide. But I'll save that for another time.

Helena

How much niacin were you taking?

It should be noted that high doses of Niacin over long periods can cause liver damage,
especially in the nicotinimide prolonged release form.

Looks like 100mg daily is the max safe dose without periodic liver function tests

http://averaorg.adam.com/content.aspx?productId=107&pid=33&gid=000335


At one time I was taking 500mg daily until I got the data on high levels. I
quite enjoyed the flushing.

 

[Lone Star]

Vitamins in pill form are mostly non-beneficial, potentially toxic, and even deadly in some cases. Multi vitamins are the worst. Mega doses of any vitamin should be avoided.

The only true way to get vitamin benefits is through the food you eat.

 

[Loohan]

I was taking high-ish doses of niacin before i did the Purif, and then again on the Purif i worked up to 5 grams for several days.
Also cont'd taking vit pills for years thereafter.
Also ended up with a swollen liver by the time i blew staff in '87. I never was much of a drinker either; back then i had several beers a year is all.
My liver is fixed now, but i think people need to be careful taking high dose niacin and 100mg potencies of B1, B2, etc. for more than a brief period.
Your body has to work hard to get rid of the excess. Too concentrate a dose, esp not taken with large meal, is hostile to the bod and may make the bod "fight" the vitamin even elsewhere (a hypothesis anyway).
Plus most dry pills have excipients like magnesium stearate that act like chalk powder to coat your intestines so they don't digest some nutrients. The more such pills u take in a period of time, the worse the effect.
I think taking too much in the way of synthetic vites for too long really helped mess up my health. Took me many years to fix.

 

[Lone Star]

Vitamins in pill form are mostly non-beneficial, potentially toxic, and even deadly in some cases. Multi vitamins are the worst. Mega doses of any vitamin should be avoided.

The only true way to get vitamin benefits is through the food you eat.

Although there are many credible sources of information regarding the dangers of most vitamin supplements, the most credible source to me was in the September 2012 issue of Consumer Reports with the cover story article Surprising Dangers of Vitamins and Supplements. CR did not say to never take them, but to be aware of overdosing, and it's quite easy to do. That was one of the surprises found after a long many year study. It's important to not go beyond the recommended daily intake. There's over 8,000 reported serious adverse events associated with dietary supplements every year in the US. Taking too many supplements over a long period of time can actually shorten life span.

For niacin the daily supplement limit is 16mg for men and 14mg for women. A relatively safe upper daily limit from all sources is 35mg. But some of you probably think Consumer Reports is funded by the drug companies, which it most certainly is not, but hey....don't let me stop any "freethinking" conspiracy theorist from popping all the pills he or she wants. Have at it.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Helena,

This info attached is copied across from a pdf book titled "Awakening from "Alzheimer's. The formatting will be off in certain areas, but I hope I cleaned up the part dealing with B vitamins . . . big references on niacin and niacinamide. These vitamins do indeed have a huge affect on the "mind" and what is available out of it.

For you oldies here, I do recommend this book . . . it has some brilliant answers for those in need of help or cure and certainly is important info from the perspective of prevention of deterioration.

Though one thing, if anyone take continued high doses of niacin, be sure to get enough calcium as niacin will leach the calcium out of your system.

Every time I wert to flag they pushed the B-1 before each session and my teeth began to hurt. I went home and back to my regular vites and the pn went away. Mimsey

 

[Helena Handbasket]

How much niacin were you taking?

It should be noted that high doses of Niacin over long periods can cause liver damage,
especially in the nicotinimide prolonged release form.

Looks like 100mg daily is the max safe dose without periodic liver function tests

http://averaorg.adam.com/content.aspx?productId=107&pid=33&gid=000335


At one time I was taking 500mg daily until I got the data on high levels. I
quite enjoyed the flushing.

I was taking 250 mg per day. I was expecting the flush to go away after X number of days/weeks/months at the same dose, but it didn't.

I am still taking B1. I don't consider this a problem.

Helena

 

[AnonyMary]

I've been taking high doses of Niacin and Vitamin C every day and I think they may have hurt me.

Years ago, before Scientology, I was into this thing called Orthomolecular Psychiatry. There are several flavours of this, but my doctor had me on heavy doses of Niacin, Vitamin B6, and Vitamin C. This sort of therapy is hard to come by these days, having been rejected by mainstreamists.

The bane of every talk therapy is when it is suspected there is a functional "underlying cause" to someone's symptoms, such as an emotional trauma. But attempts to discuss it fail, because the patient has totally repressed it. Orthomolecular Psychiatry attempts to "break through" this barrier of repression with the vitamins. It actually does this quite well.

Once I had been on the vitamins for a while, I said my issues were exposed and I was ready to discuss them. "Oh no," said my doctor, "just keep taking the vitamins". Now I had my trauma in my face, and I was hurting. So I stopped.

The big problem with this, complain the doctors, is that people don't keep taking the vitamins. It's obvious why -- it may be a good thing to scrape off the layers of repression, but that's not enough.

I believe L. Ron Hubbard got into this data and that's where the Purification Rundown came from. There's a lot of nonsense about purifying the body, but with one's issues exposed, and a prohibition on psychiatric drugs, what's left? I think the true secret EP of the Purif is when the newbie decides they need auditing.

Scientology is against drugs because they provide a "chemical release", moving charge away rather than erasing it. But if you let all your problems come in at you at once, you go insane. (It certainly felt that way to me for a while.)

I've stopped taking the aforementioned vitamins (except for the relatively low doses contained in my daily multivitamin pill) and I am much more stable emotionally. In another thread I wrote about how badly I've been feeling -- that's no longer the case.

To make absolutely sure this change to my vitamin schedule is the reason for my improvement, I'm going to have to start them again down the road and see if I backslide. But I'll save that for another time.

Helena

I was taking 250 mg per day. I was expecting the flush to go away after X number of days/weeks/months at the same dose, but it didn't.

I am still taking B1. I don't consider this a problem.

Helena

Helena, as was mentioned by others here, some with references, taking Niacin in larger amounts can really cause body problems - particularly with the liver. If you are going to go back on the Niacin, then do have your liver function / enzymes and blood coagulation checked. Your lab tests will show how well your liver is doing. If they are higher than normal, then you would know where your body is at on this.

W V Med J. 2013 Jan-Feb;109(1):12-4.

Niacin induced coagulopathy as a manifestation of occult liver injury.
Ali EH, McJunkin B, Jubelirer S, Hood W.
Source

Department of Internal Medicine, West Virginia University Health Sciences Center, Charleston Division, Charleston, USA.
Abstract

Niacin is an effective lipid-lowering agent which occasionally may cause hepatic failure. Liver enzymes are periodically tested during niacin therapy to assess for hepatic injury. We report a case of suppressed synthesis of hepatically derived coagulation factors and other liver proteins in a patient on niacin with no elevation of hepatic aminotransferases. The protein abnormalities reversed rapidly on discontinuation of niacin. It appears that niacin can cause occult liver injury without frank aminotransferase elevations, and may portend severe hepatotoxicity. Periodic assessment of prothrombin time should be considered in addition to aminotransferase levels to screen for liver injury. We believe this is the first reported case of occult hepatic injury due to extended release niacin, presenting as coagulopathy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23413541

All the better, I wish you would not go back on the usual dose you were taking...I say this because I deal with many who have done the Narconon program in full or in part and high liver enzymes and or increased liver damages have occurred because of the Niacin. I also don't want to see you suffer more... liver damage can be irreversible once it gets to a certain point.

I wish you the best, whatever you decide to do.

 

[Teanntás]

The Life Extension Foundation provides solid scientific information on supplements - a useful resource

http://www.lef.org/search/?q=flawed supplement studies

Here's an article on niacin

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm?source=search&key=niacin

 

[Terril park]

All the better, I wish you would not go back on the usual dose you were taking...I say this because I deal with many who have done the Narconon program in full or in part and high liver enzymes and or increased liver damages have occurred because of the Niacin. I also don't want to see you suffer more... liver damage can be irreversible once it gets to a certain point.

I wish you the best, whatever you decide to do.

AFAIK there have been only a very few cases of liver damage from
a purif done outside Narconon. In recent times some have spent months on a purif
which could be dangerous.

With narconon those who have presumably fairly heavy drug histories
could well be at special risk. Also previous hepatitus could be a serious risk.
Is hepatitus often associated with drug use? What percentage of Narconon
patients get severe liver complications or death?

 

[Terril park]

I was taking 250 mg per day. I was expecting the flush to go away after X number of days/weeks/months at the same dose, but it didn't.

I am still taking B1. I don't consider this a problem.

Helena

You may want to find out about Benfotiamine, a fat soluble B1 which is more
easily absorbed than thiamine. Its fairly new, and not well researched as yet.
The only side effects I've read about is skin rash and fatigue. I've been taken high
doses for several months with no adverse effects. Specially good if you are diabetic.

http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/2146-benfotiamine-averts-cardiomyopathy

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

AFAIK there have been only a very few cases of liver damage from
a purif done outside Narconon. In recent times some have spent months on a purif
which could be dangerous.

With narconon those who have presumably fairly heavy drug histories
could well be at special risk. Also previous hepatitus could be a serious risk.
Is hepatitus often associated with drug use? What percentage of Narconon
patients get severe liver complications or death?

No practioner in the Freezone that I know of has made a public statement relating to their Purif related vitamin doses. In light of the vast evidence of the dangers of vitamin mega dosing, it's a sham, er, I mean a shame.

 

[Terril park]

No practioner in the Freezone that I know of has made a public statement relating to their Purif related vitamin doses. In light of the vast evidence of the dangers of vitamin mega dosing, it's a sham, er, I mean a shame.

I've several times on this and other forums stated that the Purif must contain
good medical oversight including liver tests before commencing it.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Do you deliver the Purif?

 

[Lone Star]

The Life Extension Foundation provides solid scientific information on supplements - a useful resource

http://www.lef.org/search/?q=flawed supplement studies

Here's an article on niacin

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm?source=search&key=niacin

Uh no. They do not provide trusted information because they sell supplements! They have a vested interest in "debunking" any true study that urges caution on supplement use. Come on...use your thinking cap. It's easy and it's free.

 

[Captain Koolaid]

I've several times on this and other forums stated that the Purif must contain
good medical oversight including liver tests before commencing it.

Good medical oversight would discourage anyone from even considering this dangerous quackery.

99,9% of toxins and 'drug residue' are not stored in the fat tissue. Especially not the water solulable stuff.

Niacin (nicotinic acid) is not responsible for the 'face flush' when smoking cigarettes - contrary to Hubbard's belief. That would be nicotine. Hubbard wrongly assumed that nicotinic acid (he meant nicotine) would push radiation from inside the body out through the pores - hence the face flush. Listen to the segment where Hubbard warns that not smoking enough will cause lung cancer, it's easy to find online. This glaring mistake is the reason people take dangerous doses of niacin.

Fat tissue is not broken up by excessive sweating, therefore it cannot be replaced by drinking large amounts of cooking oil. Fat cells expand or contract, but a college dropout wouldn't know that, would he?

There's nothing scientific about the purif, it's not beneficial, it's harmful and potentially lethal. Like most of the stuff Hubbard pulled out of his fat ass.

 

[Mest Lover]

I spent approximately 6 months on the Purif back in 1990. I was up to powdered Niacin of 5000 mg per day for a long time then. I have wondered a lot over the years if it was some part or all of the part of my Parkinson's disease.

 

[Terril park]

Do you deliver the Purif?

No. Have done it twice to good results..