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Was LRH bisexual?

Ulduz

Patron with Honors
Look what we got here -- an excellent post saying that Hubbard believed he was a gay named Cecil Rhodes (another historic figure from LRH’s track) in his past life! Why would anyone say that he was gay in his past life? One of the reasons could be a half-confession that he is gay in his current life. Of course, there are other reasons, this is not the only one. Then there is another post with the soundtrack from Mission Earth which looks like a march of homosexual soldiers to me (desire for boys, and stuff like that, not just bleeps). Still, it is too early to conclude that LRH was bisexual, but the evidence is mounting.
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, Hubbard did write a DEKALOGY, called Mission Earth, which is a science fiction novel.. But it's only because of the liberal use of words 'bleep', and 'bleepulation' that it's not classed as gay porn.

Well, maybe he wasn't bisexual.. But he damned sure was a bleepard!

:yes:

Hi Schwimm,

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

Dart
 

Ulduz

Patron with Honors
Hi Schwimm,

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

Dart
He might have written the song by himself -- the temptation was too great.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Schwimm,

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

Dart

Oh this is good, any other names of the team?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Philadephia Doctorate Course tape #32:

"We mustn't mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now... [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy.... and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing.

"Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way... Isn't this fascinating? So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing... It's just deadly. One, two, three!"


Also from the 'PDC' lectures of 1952:

"The GE is a family man" : http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=143993&postcount=34


(Background - 'The Way To Happiness' booklet was written when Hubbard was hiding out from the Feds, while his wife was taking the rap for him for crimes he ordered, and just after a federal court had released previously secret Hubbard writings (1979/80). 'TWTH' was a PR handling - used to enhance Hubbard's and Scientology's image in the wake of bad publicity - especially for the "Wogs.")

On the topic of sex, in 'TWTH', one precept advises against promiscuity, explaining that, "A 'feeling of guilt' is no where near as sharp as ground glass in the soup."

Note that "feeling of guilt" is in quotes.

As early as 1951 (29 December), Hubbard had spoken dismissively of "conscience." In the lecture, 'Cause on All Dynamics', he said:

"What is conscience? It is simply a negating against your own, not somebody else's, causes. If there is such a thing as conscience, it would be that...

"Now, you want to know anytime in your life when you have felt guilty... you go back earlier and find the postulate that you are guilty of disobeying [and erase the postulate]."


Hubbard expressed the idea of being free of the "impediment" of conscience more simply, during a ('PDC') lecture in 1952:

"Never be the effect of your own cause."


Mike Goldstein and Jim Dincalci had these observations, including about Hubbard's son Quentin, who was gay:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5263341634543279870&hl=en


And then...

HCO BULLETIN OF 26 AUGUST 1982

PAIN AND SEX

There are two items in this universe that cause more trouble than many others combined.

One is PAIN.

The other is SEX.

One should know more about these things.

They may have applications but they are used by destructive beings in great volume to cave others in.

Despite the false data of Freud, psychologists, psychiatrists and other criminals, they are not native to a being. They are only artificial wavelengths. They have exact frequencies that can be manufactured. A being or a machine can synthesize either one.

Pain becomes a lock on a being’s abhorrence for misalignment of his own electrical flows. It is a lock upon unconsciousness which shuts off knowingness. Sex is a lock on and perversion of the “joy of creation” which involves a whole being and expands him, but by using just one wavelength, sex, this can be perverted and he contracts.

When pain enters a scene, a being withdraws, contracts and can go unconscious. When sex enters the scene, a being fixates and loses power.

Destructive creatures who do not want people big or reaching—since they are terrified of punishment due to their crimes—invented pain and sex to shrink people and cut their alertness, knowingness, power and reach.

Go into an asylum or a prison and look at the increasing institutional population and know what you are looking at. In the main, these are pain and sex addicts, decadent and degraded and no longer capable. They were sent on that route down through the ages by the psychs and here they are still in the psychs’ hands! And do they get well or go straight? Oh no. Whether in prisons or insane asylums they just get worse. And the psychs in both places rub their bloodied hands as they turn their products loose again upon the remaining population! It’s no accident. And the stocks in-trade of psychs are PAIN and SEX. They will even tell you it’s “natural” to steal!

To compound their felony—if that is possible—they tell you it’s the body doing it. Another crashing big false datum on top of all their other lies.

These are data which emerged from recent thorough research of the whole track. This is not theory or some strange opinion. It is provable electronic fact. The waves are just synthesized.

They are the most-used tools in the campaign against beings in furthering the general goal of those creatures whose sole ambition is destruction. The universe does not happen to be either destructive or chaotic except as such obsessed creeps make it.

 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Hi Schwimm,

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

Dart

Well now, this is interesting and the first I heard of it. Got any more details to post?

Paul
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Here's something to think about;

I think it's fairly well established that LRH had a very strong interest in Crowley's magical system from a young age. The OTO, which is the occult order that Crowley revamped. is supposed to have homosexual acts as part of some of the upper grades.

Crowley also directed his disciples to perform 'unspeakable acts' in order to destroy the ego or something in some twisted way.

His oldest son also insisted that the dude would have sex with anything. Would he make something like that up?

So, I think it's a pretty good bet that the guy participated in perversions of all sorts.
 

Ulduz

Patron with Honors
Some members are wondering why it is so important to know whether LRH was bisexual.
Our genius deserves a complete biography, not the one produced by CoS. I’m doing this for posterity.
“There is nothing wrong with being gay except for having sex with the men”
Betty Bibb.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Actually yes, I find his oldest Son as credible as his father

Here's something to think about;

I think it's fairly well established that LRH had a very strong interest in Crowley's magical system from a young age. The OTO, which is the occult order that Crowley revamped. is supposed to have homosexual acts as part of some of the upper grades.

Crowley also directed his disciples to perform 'unspeakable acts' in order to destroy the ego or something in some twisted way.

His oldest son also insisted that the dude would have sex with anything. Would he make something like that up?

So, I think it's a pretty good bet that the guy participated in perversions of all sorts.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Here's something to think about;

I think it's fairly well established that LRH had a very strong interest in Crowley's magical system from a young age. The OTO, which is the occult order that Crowley revamped. is supposed to have homosexual acts as part of some of the upper grades.

Crowley also directed his disciples to perform 'unspeakable acts' in order to destroy the ego or something in some twisted way.

His oldest son also insisted that the dude would have sex with anything. Would he make something like that up?

So, I think it's a pretty good bet that the guy participated in perversions of all sorts.

Crowley's ideas about what was unspeakable might have been very different from Hubbard's, or from yours. I have read a few of his books, though I'm not claiming to be a Crowley scholar. My reading left me with the feeling that those sorts of statements (like his statement about strange drugs and wine) were intended to get people to start "thinking outside the box", rather than as specific guidelines for people to adhere to. Homosexuality was considered a sin by the dominant group of the time, and so he recommended breaking out of their value-system by doing the acts they were so opposed to.

I don't think it's a good idea to advise people to do specific things that are violations of group understanding, necessarily (yes, Mark, I know), but I do think it's good advice for people to step outside of the box, because all of the values we're supposed to adopt and follow are very rarely intelligently thought out, and many of them are actually mutually exclusive.

Timothy Leary advised people to drop acid, under controlled mindset and environmental setting, in order to accomplish this, as well. For some people, this causes great anxiety. Prior to dropping acid, myself, people who dropped acid scared me, filled me with dread, because they had an experience that was obviously important to them, but that I couldn't understand. It threatened me, or I felt it did, because I didn't like the idea that my perspective was limited due to my unwillingness to do things that were specifically forbidden. After dropping acid, I no longer had that feeling. Would I recommend it to everyone? NOOOO. However, it did help me step "out of the box".

Crowley and the OTO seem to have been trying to get people out of the box, too, through such means. If there were better ways, I'd accept them.

For me, Hubbard's sexuality was an irrelevancy, except that it contravened his spoken and written words. Hypocrisy and Hubbard often go hand-in-hand, though.

The only valuable thing I might have to say to people who are coming out of the Church, or looking at its views is this: if you are gay, or bisexual, or have any other sexual trait which makes you "different" from heterosexuals with defined sex-roles, Scientology will consider such things deviations, aberrations, needing address through processing. Avoid the Church for this and many other reasons. I have no problem with you wanting to explore these sorts of issues "in session", but don't accept others' views of your sexuality as a basis for your own views! Be who you are, and celebrate it!
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
Well, Hubbard did write a DEKALOGY, called Mission Earth, which is a science fiction novel.. But it's only because of the liberal use of words 'bleep', and 'bleepulation' that it's not classed as gay porn.

Well, maybe he wasn't bisexual.. But he damned sure was a bleepard!

:yes:

Hi Schwimm,

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

Dart

Ah, the Pseudonymous person known only as "Dart Smohen".

So you now assert that you have first hand knowledge of that Ron Hubbard is not the author of Mission Earth ?

For you to know that personally, you would have had to have been part of personal entourage at WHQ (Winter HeadQuarters, La Quinta) and also at Creston Ranch.

Somehow I doubt that very much. I suggest you are merely forwarding hearsay and plagiarizing from other parties - as I suspect is the case with about 90% of everything you have ever written about Ron Hubbard.

It's too bad so many of the so called "critics" here become utterly uncritical when they are presented with things they want to hear.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Here's another old timer that you may wish to subject to your ethics presence, Sneakster:

I don't understand why you guys are so interested in LRHs drug use. How else do you think he would "research " them if he didn't use them? How else could he have turned out the monstrous volume of words that he did, both spoken and written, were it not for the help from Amphetamines? How would it be if Staff were on various drugs? Nothing would get done in an Org. PCs would be laughing and giggling and not the least bit interested in "their case".
So LRH used drugs.
He did not enjoy Marijuana. He said it gave him bad breath. Although once when he was on a pot high with a certain stand-up Comedian from the Playboy Club, he got the idea of "being out of your head".
He preferred chemicals. All kinds, mixed up together. That includes prescription meds. I don't know their names. Tuinal might be one, or it could have been 2-in-all. Either way, it was Cocaine and Heroin mixed together.
Cocaine was in use. Peyote. Lsd. Mr Hubbard preferred Amphetamines, such as Dexedrine and Benzedrine.
I suggest that you read "Nibs" ( L Ron, Jr.) story of his Father's drug use. He was the closest to it. Also reports by others on the substances that Hub kept
in his quarters.
I am reluctant to discuss any one's drug use. It is a Moral Code,( like the WTH is a moral code), that you do not reveal any one'd drug use. Divulging that would have gotten you killed in the 50s. I've struggled with the "Drug Moral Code" as opposed to scientology's moral code thruout my 33 years in and out of cos.
Thank you Jesus that I am out, and I don't have that conflict any longer.

chlng

Was LRH on drugs?

.

Damn! I just wrote another long rambling reply, and then hit a key that made it disappear! So I will just give you a straight forward answer: Yes.

CH
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Ah, the Pseudonymous person known only as "Dart Smohen".

So you now assert that you have first hand knowledge of that Ron Hubbard is not the author of Mission Earth ?

For you to know that personally, you would have had to have been part of personal entourage at WHQ (Winter HeadQuarters, La Quinta) and also at Creston Ranch.

Somehow I doubt that very much. I suggest you are merely forwarding hearsay and plagiarizing from other parties - as I suspect is the case with about 90% of everything you have ever written about Ron Hubbard.

It's too bad so many of the so called "critics" here become utterly uncritical when they are presented with things they want to hear.

Sneaker,

I did not say I had first hand knowledge of this. I heard it first hand from one of those who was involved in the preparation of the series.

Sorry if you misunderstood.

Dsrt
 

Terril park

Sponsor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeMQIO3TgyM

From; 'Mission Earth' volume 9; 'Villainy Victorious':

Oh, a soldier's life is the life for me;
Tuma-a -diddle; tuma-a-diddle, paw-pata
In camp and plain, I'm always free
To tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-paw~
No women ever spoil my view
With tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pam
They're always wanting something new
Not tuma-diddle; tuma-diddle, paw-pam
For it is the men that I enjoy
To tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pav.~
The best there is I find is boy!
Oh, tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle; paw-pam
The enemy I do not mind
If tuma-diddle, tuma-diddl4 paw-paw
Can go on in my behind
With tuma-diddle; tuma-diddle, paw-pa~
And if my bunkmates all are kind
With tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pam
Surrounded by ten thousand (bleeps)
That tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pa~
All passionate and hard as rocks
To tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pazt~
Eager to slide in my buttocks
And tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-paw!
So (bleep), (bleep), (bleep) and (bleep) in me!
Tuma-diddle, tuma-diddl4 paw-pam
And let me (bleep) and (bleep) in thee
With tuma-diddle, tuma-diddk, paw-pam
Oh, what a love-ul-lee Arm-ee!
With its tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle;
OH! BOY!

Fiction =truth.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Fiction =truth.
Huh? I provided a collection of writings relevant to the topic of Hubbard/Scientology and sex. The audio recording/video is a lecture from the 1950s.

There are plenty of insights that can be obtained from examining Hubbard's fiction writings. In confidential advices Hubbard instructed that certain covert dirty tricks used by characters in his books be added to the repertoire of dirty tricks in his covert attack tech.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Ah, the Pseudonymous person known only as "Dart Smohen".

So you now assert that you have first hand knowledge of that Ron Hubbard is not the author of Mission Earth ?

For you to know that personally, you would have had to have been part of personal entourage at WHQ (Winter HeadQuarters, La Quinta) and also at Creston Ranch.

Somehow I doubt that very much. I suggest you are merely forwarding hearsay and plagiarizing from other parties - as I suspect is the case with about 90% of everything you have ever written about Ron Hubbard.

It's too bad so many of the so called "critics" here become utterly uncritical when they are presented with things they want to hear.

I know and have met Dart. Don't nessesarily agree with all he says,
but he is a valid source of data re LRH. I know his name.

He was there in early times. Beyond dispute. Maybe he got some things wrong.

We also know that Ralph Vaughn Young helped in writing Mission Earth.
 
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