Was LRH bisexual?

[DartSmohen]

Huh? I provided a collection of writings relevant to the topic of Hubbard/Scientology and sex. The audio recording/video is a lecture from the 1950s. It's worth a listen.

In the period covering 1954 through to to early 1969 I saw nothing to suggest Hubbard was bisexual. However he had a huge antipathy to homosexuals and Hubbard was overtly hetrosexual, judging from his promiscous behavour toward women.

I have no data covering matters either side of those dates.

Dart.

 

[AnonKat]

I really don't know one way or the other, but I'm curious why you came to that conclusion.

He was the one that did that Playboy interview was he not

 

[Terril park]

Huh? I provided a collection of writings relevant to the topic of Hubbard/Scientology and sex. The audio recording/video is a lecture from the 1950s.

The film you posted is alledged somethying recorded by LRH in the fifties?

Dox please.

Re the audio, sexual blanketing is something he commented on.

 

[Veda]

The film you posted is alledged somethying recorded by LRH in the fifties?

Dox please.

Re the audio, sexual blanketing is something he commented on.

Dox? It's obviously from a Hubbard lecture, which you well know.

Pertinent comments by Hubbard can be found at 1:17 -1:32 and 3:05 -3:11.

 

[freethinker]

Now this is worth finding out about. if he didn't write that then there's a good chance there are many things he didn't write that many think he did.

Hi Schwimm,

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

Dart

 

[SomeGuy]

Dox? It's obviously from a Hubbard lecture, which you well know.

Pertinent comments by Hubbard can be found at 1:17 -1:32 and 3:05 -3:11.

Just have to say I think yours are the most relevant posts on the subject of scientology on the internet.

My way of saying thank you and keep doing what you do.

 

[Terril park]

Dox? It's obviously from a Hubbard lecture, which you well know.

Pertinent comments by Hubbard can be found at 1:17 -1:32 and 3:05 -3:11.

No I don't know.

 

[freethinker]

One time when I was on staff, an SO member came to the org and did a special briefing.

He first went over the Pain and Sex bulletin, then he played a tape that he said was not in any series and hadn't been heard much.

The lecture began with LRH syaing that any children in the room had to leave because the subject matter was too restimulative. Then then he begins to talk about sex and perversion and builds to the point where he blurts out that the greatest 2D aberation on the track was sex with little boys. He goes on to say everyone has done it and it's the deepest abberation on the track. The lecture went for about an hour plus.

So I think he was a homosexual and a pedephile. Has anyone else heard this lecture?

Philadephia Doctorate Course tape #32:

"We mustn't mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now... [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy.... and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing.

"Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way... Isn't this fascinating? So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing... It's just deadly. One, two, three!"

Also from the 'PDC' lectures of 1952:

"The GE is a family man" : http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=143993&postcount=34


(Background - 'The Way To Happiness' booklet was written when Hubbard was hiding out from the Feds, while his wife was taking the rap for him for crimes he ordered, and just after a federal court had released previously secret Hubbard writings (1979/80). 'TWTH' was a PR handling - used to enhance Hubbard's and Scientology's image in the wake of bad publicity - especially for the "Wogs.")

On the topic of sex, in 'TWTH', one precept advises against promiscuity, explaining that, "A 'feeling of guilt' is no where near as sharp as ground glass in the soup."

Note that "feeling of guilt" is in quotes.

As early as 1951 (29 December), Hubbard had spoken dismissively of "conscience." In the lecture, 'Cause on All Dynamics', he said:

"What is conscience? It is simply a negating against your own, not somebody else's, causes. If there is such a thing as conscience, it would be that...

"Now, you want to know anytime in your life when you have felt guilty... you go back earlier and find the postulate that you are guilty of disobeying [and erase the postulate]."

Hubbard expressed the idea of being free of the "impediment" of conscience more simply, during a ('PDC') lecture in 1952:

"Never be the effect of your own cause."


Mike Goldstein and Jim Dincalci had these observations, including about Hubbard's son Quentin, who was gay:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5263341634543279870&hl=en


And then...

HCO BULLETIN OF 26 AUGUST 1982

PAIN AND SEX

There are two items in this universe that cause more trouble than many others combined.

One is PAIN.

The other is SEX.

One should know more about these things.

They may have applications but they are used by destructive beings in great volume to cave others in.

Despite the false data of Freud, psychologists, psychiatrists and other criminals, they are not native to a being. They are only artificial wavelengths. They have exact frequencies that can be manufactured. A being or a machine can synthesize either one.

Pain becomes a lock on a being’s abhorrence for misalignment of his own electrical flows. It is a lock upon unconsciousness which shuts off knowingness. Sex is a lock on and perversion of the “joy of creation” which involves a whole being and expands him, but by using just one wavelength, sex, this can be perverted and he contracts.

When pain enters a scene, a being withdraws, contracts and can go unconscious. When sex enters the scene, a being fixates and loses power.

Destructive creatures who do not want people big or reaching—since they are terrified of punishment due to their crimes—invented pain and sex to shrink people and cut their alertness, knowingness, power and reach.

Go into an asylum or a prison and look at the increasing institutional population and know what you are looking at. In the main, these are pain and sex addicts, decadent and degraded and no longer capable. They were sent on that route down through the ages by the psychs and here they are still in the psychs’ hands! And do they get well or go straight? Oh no. Whether in prisons or insane asylums they just get worse. And the psychs in both places rub their bloodied hands as they turn their products loose again upon the remaining population! It’s no accident. And the stocks in-trade of psychs are PAIN and SEX. They will even tell you it’s “natural” to steal!

To compound their felony—if that is possible—they tell you it’s the body doing it. Another crashing big false datum on top of all their other lies.

These are data which emerged from recent thorough research of the whole track. This is not theory or some strange opinion. It is provable electronic fact. The waves are just synthesized.

They are the most-used tools in the campaign against beings in furthering the general goal of those creatures whose sole ambition is destruction. The universe does not happen to be either destructive or chaotic except as such obsessed creeps make it.

 

[Veda]

Some info on Nibs

He was the one that did that Playboy interview was he not

It was a 'Penthouse' interview.

Penthouse: "Did he [Hubbard Sr.] encourage you to use drugs?"

Hubbard Jr.: "Well, he used them with me. He was a real night person. We used to sit around at night, sit around his office or home, get loaded up, and talk... He started out by mixing phenobarbital in my bubble gum, when I was ten years old. This was to induce deeper trances in order to practice the black magic..."

From L. Ron Hubbard Sr.'s 'Affirmations':

"Your psychology is good. You worked to darken your own children. This failure with them [Ron Jr., and his younger sister Katherine] was only apparent. The evident lack of effectiveness was 'ordered'. The same psychology works perfectly on everyone else. You use it with great confidence.

...

"Darkness is a cloak you may don. Your guardian and your own courage protect you utterly in darkness. You control anything you meet in darkness for that is part of your universe.

...

"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write.

...

"Your psychology is true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIwmsBLvcr4

As a non-sequitur comment, at the beginning of the first 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lecture: "...the prince of darkness. Who do you think I am?" [audience chuckles].


Poor Nibs.

The first "Ron's Org" SP Declare I ever read was the one on L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Nibs). It was in a notebook owned by the person who is currently the Senior C/S for Ron's Orgs in the USA:

"Sector Ethics Order:

"Ron De Wolfe, alias Nibs Hubbard, alias L. Ron Hubbard Junior

"...He has recently come under direct influence of the infamous suppressive implanter known as Xenu, subject of Ethics Order No. 1 (written in 1967 by Elron Elray)...

"Astar Paramejgian

"Deputy Sector Commander"

The use of "alias" for dramatic effect is another echo of L. Ron Hubbard, whose (perceived) enemies were invariably communists, criminals, or sex perverts, for example, according to the founder of Scientology, his 2nd wife was a Russian spy, sent in to run a Covert Operation on Dianetics:

"Sara Komkovadamanov, alias Northrup..."

Good ol' Captain Bill. And to think his Ron's Orgs flying saucer cult is the number one FZ group. http://galac-patra.narod.ru/index.html Oh well.

As for Ron Jr., or Nibs, other than his comments in 'Penthouse' and a few TV interviews, and his brief association with the book 'Messiah or Madman?', there's not very much. There is a total of five pages of material, from Ron Jr., in the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?'. And all the material used in "Madman?' was supported by others' testimony and by court's evidence.

There's a confusion re. the 'Penthouse' article, as stories told to Ron Jr., by his father, were presented as being believed by Ron Jr. Ron Jr. believed some of it, not all of it, and was uncertain about some things. That's one category: Things he was *told* by his father. His father *told* him (he was 17 in 1950) that he was selling secrets to the Russians, just as his father told Scientologists so many things. And, not unlike the Scientologists who are still "sorting it out" and recovering, so did Ron Jr. attempt to do so.

Of course, Ron Jr. had the problem of having been Fair Gamed, by his father and Scientology, for most of his life. The two "buttons" that Scientology Inc. went after were "family, wife, children," and "money, jobs, etc." Scientology Inc. was relentless.

Ron Jr. was told many things by his father, but he also *witnessed* his father's behavior: his father throwing dinner plates against walls, his father drinking heavily, and his father using drugs; he witnessed his father's fascination with the writings of Aleister Crowley, and with the darkest aspects of the occult, witnessed his father's use of self-hypnosis with the 'Affirmations' - the 'Affirmations' beginning in the late 1930s. He also witnessed his father secretly hoarding cash, then telling creditors he had no money, and he witnessed the contempt with which his father regarded Scientologists, the Scientologists to whom his father had repeatedly lied.

All this, and more, has since been confirmed.

And then there are Ron Jr.'s opinions.

However, Ron Jr. was told so many tall tales by his father, that he spent the rest of his life trying to sort it out, and free himself from his father's manipulations. And he said so.

Over-all, Ron's Jr.'s information - the key points - have been confirmed by other sources. He spoke out before the Internet, when his mention of his father using drugs brought ridicule, and worse.

And he's the only Hubbard son or daughter who has had the courage to speak out publicly.

 

[Veda]

No I don't know.

Than that's your problem. Listen to the sections of the tape that have been noted, or don't.

 

[Ulduz]

One time when I was on staff, an SO member came to the org and did a special briefing.

He first went over the Pain and Sex bulletin, then he played a tape that he said was not in any series and hadn't been heard much.

The lecture began with LRH syaing that any children in the room had to leave because the subject matter was too restimulative. Then then he begins to talk about sex and perversion and builds to the point where he blurts out that the greatest 2D aberation on the track was sex with little boys. He goes on to say everyone has done it and it's the deepest abberation on the track. The lecture went for about an hour plus.

So I think he was a homosexual and a pedephile. Has anyone else heard this lecture?

I haven’t heard that tape and I never met LRH in person (I got involved with CoS after his death). But I don;t not find your posting strange; in fact, I believe everything you say. I saw plenty of LRH tapes, and he struck me as very feminine. His speech, manners -- everything about him looked gay to me. I saw an LRH tape during my first visit to the Church. At that time I did not know who he was; after watching that tape I dubbed him gay-who-wants -to-look-macho.

 

[Veda]

One time when I was on staff, an SO member came to the org and did a special briefing.

He first went over the Pain and Sex bulletin, then he played a tape that he said was not in any series and hadn't been heard much.

The lecture began with LRH syaing that any children in the room had to leave because the subject matter was too restimulative. Then then he begins to talk about sex and perversion and builds to the point where he blurts out that the greatest 2D aberation on the track was sex with little boys. He goes on to say everyone has done it and it's the deepest abberation on the track. The lecture went for about an hour plus.

So I think he was a homosexual and a pedophile. Has anyone else heard this lecture?

By any chance was it this tape? Relevant sections are 1:17 -1:32 and 3:05 - 3:11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeMQIO3TgyM&feature=player_embedded

By the way, I don't care what Hubbard's personal inclinations were sexually, except that they filtered down into the "applied philosophy" he founded, with contempt for the family, and abuse of children, being the foremost troubling issues in this area.

 

[TheSneakster]

Just to clarify; Hubbard may have started out the decology thread buit he did not write the books. These were written by a team of staff, including Suzette.

"Dart":

(edited after reading Dart's reply above)

Seems to me whomever fed you that information is calling Robert Vaughn Young a liar with the above:

Excerpt from the beginning of RVY's article which I linked:

Saturday, February 19, 2000

L. RON HUBBARD'S MISSION EARTH: the rest of the story
by Robert Vaughn Young**


A representative of Scientology's Dept. 20 has claimed on ARS that I had
nothing to do with Hubbard's last work, "Mission Earth." I tend to ignore
their blathering of these sock puppets but I really took personal umbrage
at this one! I was Hubbard's editor and sometimes-ghost writer and I
earned THAT battle ribbon!

I was working at Author Services, Inc. (ASI) which served as Hubbard's
"literary agency" as well as his personal representative. (For example,
ASI handled all of his personal income and bank accounts. ASI was also his
secret command line into the Church of Scientology, which is another
subject.)

IMAGE IS EVERYTHING, DUDE

When Hubbard's manuscript of "Mission Earth" (or "ME" as we called it)
came in to Author Services, Inc. (ASI), it arrived as one volume, typed on
legal-sized paper and on a manual. It came in a banker's box with each
chapter in a separate file folder. And not ordinary file folders. I don't
know where they got them but they were heavy, thick and dark red. It was
pure Hubbard all the way. Image at every turn, no matter how ridiculous
you look. (Look at some of his self-portraits for photos of a man full of
himself.)

The manuscript came with instructions. Hubbard said it should be cut up
into three or maybe ten sections and for us to decide and suggest. Well,
ten volumes make more money than three do so naturally we said ten. Great,
he said, and more instructions followed.

 

[uniquemand]

"Dart":

(edited after reading Dart's reply above)

Seems to me whomever fed you that information is calling Robert Vaughn Young a liar with the above:

Excerpt from the beginning of RVY's article which I linked:

Not at all. RVY didn't say that he saw Hubbard write it. He said it looked like Hubbard all the way. Doesn't mean that others hadn't written it as a crew, as suggested, the way much of Hubbard's writing was done (tech writing was rarely Hubbard, from what I can see, from about 1978 on, and prior to that was often written by others with Hubbard's name stamped on it). That's the reason that though David Mayo created and wrote and piloted NOTS, Hubbard's name is on it, and Mayo is considered to have been a for hire writer.

 

[SomeGuy]

"Dart":

(edited after reading Dart's reply above)

Seems to me whomever fed you that information is calling Robert Vaughn Young a liar with the above:

Excerpt from the beginning of RVY's article which I linked:

There are a lot of assumptions in this post.

 

[Panda Termint]

Like, as if anyone is actually going to lie in admitting to authorship of Mission Earth!

To quote Sean Connery's character in The Untouchables, "Who would claim that who was not?"

 

[freethinker]

Similar content, probably from the same time period but in the one I heard he was saying we alll did it and it is our deepest aberation.

But that one shows he was working in that area but he was much more extreme in the one I heard.

By any chance was it this tape? Relevant sections are 1:17 -1:32 and 3:05 - 3:11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeMQIO3TgyM&feature=player_embedded

By the way, I don't care what Hubbard's personal inclinations were sexually, except that they filtered down into the "applied philosophy" he founded, with contempt for the family, and abuse of children, being the foremost troubling issues in this area.

 

[clamicide]

One time when I was on staff, an SO member came to the org and did a special briefing.

He first went over the Pain and Sex bulletin, then he played a tape that he said was not in any series and hadn't been heard much.

The lecture began with LRH syaing that any children in the room had to leave because the subject matter was too restimulative. Then then he begins to talk about sex and perversion and builds to the point where he blurts out that the greatest 2D aberation on the track was sex with little boys. He goes on to say everyone has done it and it's the deepest abberation on the track. The lecture went for about an hour plus.

So I think he was a homosexual and a pedephile. Has anyone else heard this lecture?

I did not hear the lecture in question, but might have known folks who did. It sounds very close to what I'd heard others describe many moons ago. That was a weird part of being on staff--you'd get SO blow in with permission to play some 'unreleased tape and it'd usually be totally off the wall, But, we ate it up.

And I'd like to state that pedophilia and homosexuality are two COMPLETELY different things. If Hubs was gay,or even bi, then I would rather he's kept in the closet. I know too many awesome gay people that don't need that creepazoid furthering the insanity of what some idiots assume gay folks are like.

 

[Infinite]

It seems unlikely to me that L Ron Hubbard was gay or bisexual. Even if the Satanic rites he participated in involved homosexual acts, a person does not need to be homo/bisexual to take part. Isolated incidents of homosexual acts, particularly in youth, are not evidence of a fixed sexuality. L Ron Hubbard was a hugely complicated character and certainly participated in all that life has to offer.

There is, however, a real disgust for homosexuals throughout Scientology, both in its scripture and in its actions. I have put this down, largely, to the fact that L Ron Hubbard was a product of his times and, growing up in the early part of the 20th century, homophobia was more widespread in US society than it is now. There was (and still is) a misconception that homosexuality is also paedophilia; as is generally recognised now, the two are separate manifestation of human sexuality.

I'm beginning to wonder now if, rather than a homosexual, L Ron Hubbard wasn't at some stage in his youth the object of a paedophile's attentions?? His strident opposition to homosexuality, his overt machismo, his need to sexualise females, his inability to sustain long-term intimate relationships, his constant need for control, and his inability to soften his view even in light of his son's sexuality, all speak of an over-compensation in response to some unresolved "issue".

Freud could've helped him with that ; )

 

[lotus]

TO me,

Lrh has been the most perverted persons I encounter that could succed to make so much people shamed of hw the nature have created them , like any othe being, with genitla organs to reproduce and get some pleasure doing so.

He made a teaching body of work from his own perversions and obsessive compulsive thinking and behavior k of ''sex and aberration''

I never heard or read this man talking about what a beautiful encounter could be a true love and tender union accomplished into the copulation and the most beautifull creation of human beings - making babies, love them, educate them, and let them grow happy.
His tendency was to degrade anything beautifull and pure of it's true nature.
(years after I left CO$ I realized that all the nature ot the nature is being a pervert thing to him and taught he should have left drugs and masturbation - put his low balls in his pants and get the fuck walking and observing nature, He would have seen frogs to copulate many different way without being agitated or suffering any perturbation because of the neighbour trying to put it into a male frog''
also frogs are not cruel and care about children and knows how to educate them and show them what like is all about - What LRH never knew. )


within his mind there was not such things - of sexuality as a mean of expressinglove
only depravation and perversion.

He did not know that the vast majority of people are able - to experience the beauty of sexuality - wich is a different thing than ''genitality'' and are not in general, as aberrated as his mind was.

So was he gay? or Bi? , I don't give a sh...

I just really really really hope
That he never abused sexually some of the kids on the ship.
I always had a bad feeling about that.
I hope I am wrong.

This is my main fear and concern.