Was LRH The God or just a god?

[Feral]

Ron wrote in many places that he was just a man, this is a very humble uttering.

Yet he studied man in 52 different cultures from an early age had a hunger for knowledge and a compassion for man that knew no rival. He found the tech of life and the mind, mapped the way out of the labyrinth, threaded a path through the deadly OTIII. He was possibly the only officer in the US Navy that saw action in every theater of WWII. He was exterior with perception and demonstrating OT powers as early as 1952, and as a small boy while studying mysticism was able to move objects with his mind, I think it was a matchstick floating on water. He is the authority on drug and criminal rehab, mental illness, administration,organization, finance, ethics, justice, nutrition, photography, music, film making, PR, intelligence, literature, seamanship, philosophy, child raising and education.

The only area that was not extensively researched was the almighty.

However in the admin dictionary eight dynamic is defined as " superior life beings" and goes further "there are always going to be superior life beings around"

KSW 1 makes it very clear that Ron IS the source, the busts and photos, clapping and deification by the group sort of indicates there is a lot more to this fellow than your garden variety human.

He also sought knowledge and power through the occult in 1947, he used affirmations to release his natural power.

He understood his role as early as 1938 when he wrote to his first wife Polly' "Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. The outermost limit of endeavour is creative work. Anything less is too close to simple survival until death happens along. So I am engaged in striving to maintain equilibrium sufficient to at least realize survival in a way to astound the gods. I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way . . . Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned"

He is known among scientologists as mankinds' greatest friend.

In a late HCOB he stated that the only faintest chance this universe has is the delivery of his upper OT levels.

In the light of this there is no doubt he is a god, but is he The GOD?

 

[Carnaubawax]

Ron wrote in many places that he was just a man, this is a very humble uttering.

Yet he studied man in 52 different cultures from an early age had a hunger for knowledge and a compassion for man that knew no rival. He found the tech of life and the mind, mapped the way out of the labyrinth, threaded a path through the deadly OTIII. He was possibly the only officer in the US Navy that saw action in every theater of WWII. He was exterior with perception and demonstrating OT powers as early as 1952, and as a small boy while studying mysticism was able to move objects with his mind, I think it was a matchstick floating on water. He is the authority on drug and criminal rehab, mental illness, administration,organization, finance, ethics, justice, nutrition, photography, music, film making, PR, intelligence, literature, seamanship, philosophy, child raising and education.

The only area that was not extensively researched was the almighty.

However in the admin dictionary eight dynamic is defined as " superior life beings" and goes further "there are always going to be superior life beings around"

KSW 1 makes it very clear that Ron IS the source, the busts and photos, clapping and deification by the group sort of indicates there is a lot more to this fellow than your garden variety human.

He also sought knowledge and power through the occult in 1947, he used affirmations to release his natural power.

He understood his role as early as 1938 when he wrote to his first wife Polly' "Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. The outermost limit of endeavour is creative work. Anything less is too close to simple survival until death happens along. So I am engaged in striving to maintain equilibrium sufficient to at least realize survival in a way to astound the gods. I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way . . . Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned"

He is known among scientologists as mankinds' greatest friend.

In a late HCOB he stated that the only faintest chance this universe has is the delivery of his upper OT levels.

In the light of this there is no doubt he is a god, but is he The GOD?

He had aspirations to become a god; but sadly, he remained until the end of his days, nothing more than a fat man with bad skin and a substance abuse problem.

 

[uniquemand]

There's a god? Show me.

 

[degraded being]

Seems it was about being POWERFUL and being able to do amazing things - with the inference - that HE can do things that ordinary HUMANS could not do. The BEST.

Looks like he was not interested in it being a god thing or a divine thing. Just a POWERFUL BEING thing.

Because he never contructed it as a god thing (IMO) then it seems like a non-starter to think that mankind, who naturally admired his accomplishments, skills, and powers and bravery (let's not forget that) would see it as a god thing.

I didn't say anything about his great love for mankind. He did a lot less work on that aspect because, well he just did a little bit of it when he thought he should chuck it in to get compliance from the stupid -to-be-duped. He was not interested in it himself, in the way he was interested in power and super human skills so couln't give a damn about spending time on it.

Superhuman. Not god. God was old fashioned but superhuman was relevant to the era and the sci-fi, interest in outer space, galaxies, etc.

Oh, yeah and the leader thing. Some people -mostly men I think just HAVE to be the LEADER.!!!!! Oh boy, was he ever one of those. It is one aspect of the POWER tripper.

 

[Carnaubawax]

Seems it was about being POWERFUL and being able to do amazing things - with the inference - that HE can do things that ordinary HUMANS could not do. The BEST.

Looks like he was not interested in it being a god thing or a divine thing. Just a POWERFUL BEING thing.

Because he never contructed it as a god thing (IMO) then it seems like a non-starter to think that mankind, who naturally admired his accomplishments, skills, and powers and bravery (let's not forget that) would see it as a god thing.

I didn't say anything about his great love for mankind. He did a lot less work on that aspect because, well he just did a little bit of it when he thought he should chuck it in to get compliance from the stupid -to-be-duped. He was not interested in it himself, in the way he was interested in power and super human skills so couln't give a damn about spending time on it.

Superhuman. Not god. God was old fashioned but superhuman was relevant to the era and the sci-fi, interest in outer space, galaxies, etc.

Very true.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

In the light of this there is no doubt he is a god, but is he The GOD?

FIRST, you have to ask yourself what you mean by the term "god". Then you could consider the question of how any particular "x" fits your definition.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Free to shine]

Excellent post Feral.

I think he had to create the illusion for us lowly people to aspire to.

 

[Feral]

FIRST, you have to ask yourself what you mean by the term "god". Then you could consider the question of how any particular "x" fits your definition.


Mark A. Baker

AH-HA!

I'll say it again a bit differently;" If the above were true, he certainly is a god, but is he the GOD?'

Did Hubbard wish to replace God in the minds of men with himself? Remember it was he who spent the time redefining god in his books and dictionaries.

Has he succeeded to do just that within his church?

 

[tookmeawhile]

Ron wrote in many places that he was just a man, this is a very humble uttering.

Yet he studied man in 52 different cultures from an early age had a hunger for knowledge and a compassion for man that knew no rival. He found the tech of life and the mind, mapped the way out of the labyrinth, threaded a path through the deadly OTIII. He was possibly the only officer in the US Navy that saw action in every theater of WWII. He was exterior with perception and demonstrating OT powers as early as 1952, and as a small boy while studying mysticism was able to move objects with his mind, I think it was a matchstick floating on water. He is the authority on drug and criminal rehab, mental illness, administration,organization, finance, ethics, justice, nutrition, photography, music, film making, PR, intelligence, literature, seamanship, philosophy, child raising and education.

The only area that was not extensively researched was the almighty.

However in the admin dictionary eight dynamic is defined as " superior life beings" and goes further "there are always going to be superior life beings around"

KSW 1 makes it very clear that Ron IS the source, the busts and photos, clapping and deification by the group sort of indicates there is a lot more to this fellow than your garden variety human.

He also sought knowledge and power through the occult in 1947, he used affirmations to release his natural power.

He understood his role as early as 1938 when he wrote to his first wife Polly' "Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. The outermost limit of endeavour is creative work. Anything less is too close to simple survival until death happens along. So I am engaged in striving to maintain equilibrium sufficient to at least realize survival in a way to astound the gods. I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way . . . Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned"

He is known among scientologists as mankinds' greatest friend.

In a late HCOB he stated that the only faintest chance this universe has is the delivery of his upper OT levels.

In the light of this there is no doubt he is a god, but is he The GOD?

Wow, Feral. When you put it like this, I can't believe I fell for it for so many years! :confused2:

 

[Power Change]

Does this look like a man capable of being a god?

His teeth alone give it away...ok well not in this pic...but in other pics.

 

[Carnaubawax]

Does this look like a man capable of being a god?

His teeth alone give it away...ok well not in this pic...but in other pics.

Well if we use the definition "Supreme Being" I think he missed the bus.

Looks like that photo was taken when he was so out of it, that he wasn't even aware that he was being photographed - poor sod.

 

[Carmel]

LRH was certainly revered and seen/considered as deity by so, so many! However, some of us who 'studied' his hundreds of tapes didn't see him as such.

It was more than apparent that he had a button on 'self importance', that he suffered from 'only one' phenomena, and that he had a serious case of 'miss withold phenomena' at times - his sometimes scathing carping criticism was a major out-point!

It was irksome that so many were in denial, and wouldn't acknowledge the fact that his sh't stunk too! The thing that stood out like a sore thumb was that humility in the man was seriously lacking - he was not at all god-like! (but that is not to say that he didn't have a certain 'genius')

When the applauding/clapping 'thing' came in (in the 80's), it was a shocker! Some of us put it down to 'an American thing' (no offence to you yanks!) - but in hindsight, that was a mistake. Was LRH a God? Of course he was (or had to be)- for if he wasn't, people would have looked and seen his flaws!

 

[Pixie]

...... and that he had a serious case of 'miss withold phenomena' at times - his sometimes scathing carping criticism was a major out-point!

I'm curious about this statement. Do you really believe that if someone is critical they have 'missed witholds'? What about if someone lies to you and betrays your trust in a most insidious way, don't you think one would react with the same phenomenon? There is a huge amount of scathing carping criticism on this board regarding the cult, understandably and rightly so, but does this mean therefore that the critics have 'missed witholds'? :confused2:

Now that I am out of the mind fuck and free to think for myself, I find that people usually become critical and carping when they are upset. It's part of their defense mechanism and in my view normal human behaviour. I do not see people who are critical as having missed witholds anymore.

 

[KnightVision]

I'm curious about this statement. Do you really believe that if someone is critical they have 'missed witholds'? What about if someone lies to you and betrays your trust in a most insidious way, don't you think one would react with the same phenomenon? There is a huge amount of scathing carping criticism on this board regarding the cult, understandably and rightly so, but does this mean therefore that the critics have 'missed witholds'? :confused2:

Now that I am out of the mind fuck and free to think for myself, I find that people usually become critical and carping when they are upset. It's part of their defense mechanism and in my view normal human behaviour. I do not see people who are critical as having missed witholds anymore.

Good point!

 

[Human Again]

Now that I am out of the mind fuck and free to think for myself, I find that people usually become critical and carping when they are upset. It's part of their defense mechanism and in my view normal human behaviour. I do not see people who are critical as having missed witholds anymore.

Yay Pixie- Also they can get that way when their comminication is denied, they are harrassed or while fighting something they are frustrated with.



Though Scientologists may percieve him as God or The Source of the Bridge to Total Freedom - if only they would look at the shadow of darkess he has thrown on the lives of the people he supposedly supplied with the bridge to total freedom:

Ron's shadow:

 

[Pixie]

Yay Pixie- Also they can get that way when their comminication is denied, they are harrassed or while fighting something they are frustrated with.

Exactly!!

 

[Carmel]

I'm curious about this statement. Do you really believe that if someone is critical they have 'missed witholds'? What about if someone lies to you and betrays your trust in a most insidious way, don't you think one would react with the same phenomenon? There is a huge amount of scathing carping criticism on this board regarding the cult, understandably and rightly so, but does this mean therefore that the critics have 'missed witholds'? :confused2:

Now that I am out of the mind fuck and free to think for myself, I find that people usually become critical and carping when they are upset. It's part of their defense mechanism and in my view normal human behaviour. I do not see people who are critical as having missed witholds anymore.

Hey Pix,

I want to give you a concept here, so please read the whole post rather than single out something in particular.

Being critical is one thing - it would be more than foolish not to be critical of things that deserve criticism! However, when I see someone who is scathing or carpingly critical of something (as opposed to antagonistic towards or angry about) - it's a different matter!

Sometimes people can have an incessant loathing toward somebody or something, over something that happened in the past. How come (in some cases) the upset and stirred emotions get magnified and fester - instead of dissipated, over time?

For 28 years now I've observed mw/h phenomena (in myself and others). Just because it's covered in the technology of scientology - that's no reason to deny it's existence or credibility.

Unfortunately because people/LRH/Execs have twisted the technology, and used it to make people wrong, and have labelled something as something it is not - many have mistaken a natural reponse to various circumstances as mw/h phenomena/overts and the likes!

FYI - getting highly fu'king angry, being fu'ked off over some insidious occurance, or being extremely critical of something or somebody over something that has just happened or is still happening - is NOT mw/h phenomena (although the CofS would have you believe so)! However, being carpingly critical and scathing (incessantly), over somebody or something that occurred, and having that fester and magnify would indeed be mw/h phenomena and it would behoove anyone and everyone to acknowledge and recognize that, IMHO.

I am not talking about the phenomena that are incorrectly labelled time and time again, by the CofS and those within the ranks. I'm talking about phenomena which I learned about in the very early 80's and have since observed to be true. The two concepts are like chalk and cheese - yet within the ranks, they have the same label!

So yes, from my observation, LRH 'suffered' from mw/h phenomena big time!

Regards,
Carmel

 

[HappyGirl]

Now that I am out of the mind fuck and free to think for myself, I find that people usually become critical and carping when they are upset. It's part of their defense mechanism and in my view normal human behaviour. I do not see people who are critical as having missed witholds anymore.

Yay Pixie- Also they can get that way when their comminication is denied, they are harrassed or while fighting something they are frustrated with.

I never believed in M/W/Hs. Also, it was contradicted by complaining being the first ethics gradient if you saw an outness. I can't quote that policy exactly, but you probably know what I'm talking about. I never believed illness was ONLY PTSness, either! How did I stay so long in a religion I didn't believe!?

 

[Free to shine]

Hey Pix,


I am not talking about the phenomena that are incorrectly labelled time and time again, by the CofS and those within the ranks. I'm talking about phenomena which I learned about in the very early 80's and have since observed to be true. The two concepts are like chalk and cheese - yet within the ranks, they have the same label!


Regards,
Carmel

The following is worth reading. I don't have the link here, I copied this a long time ago and it helped me greatly. Emotions that are not experienced as they happen become the festering ones, labelled m/wh phenomena, or other types of 'case'.

Notes on Letting Go - by Lionheart


Labelling a feeling as unwanted or inappropriate, is resisting the feeling and that tends to cause the feeling to persist. If there is one secret in life, this is it!

Don't assign a feeling to hidden, unknown causes or label a feeling as unwanted.

Enjoy, welcome feelings, allow them to just be there. Grief is wonderful and is a blessing of the universe. Anger is an exciting fairground ride of life!

There is no past. Memories of it are in the present, now.

There is no future and imaginings of it are only in the present.

There is only now. The present is a gift from the universe to you, a present indeed. A miracle. You are truly alone in the now. Alone. Al-One. All One! Perfect, present and nothing is amiss. There can therefore be no mis-emotion, because you are present and gifted with life! When you want to cry, allow it and all will be well, how could it be otherwise? There is nothing we need to "handle" except the idea that we need to "handle" something. Once we have the super realisation that there is nothing to handle, then we've become free!

If we ever feel there is something to handle we can allow, release, let go, or whatever it takes to realise that there is nothing to handle. Every philosophy from Vedic teachings to Christ and Krishnamurti said the same thing. It is no secret.

Suppose there is no past or future, just suppose there is only "Now" (as per Eckhart Tolle).

"Now", I feel sad about the argument I had with someone. The argument isn't here, the memory and feelings associated with it are now and that IS all there is. There is no argument, just thoughts, images and feelings about it. That's all there is. And this argument is troubling me NOW. I'm holding onto it and can't release it.

Perhaps it helps me to hold onto it, or perhaps I'm resisting it and therefore making it stay. Now and Now and Now. The person I argued with isn't creating it now, I am.

Releasing it from Now is done by allowing the feelings to be there, or letting them go or welcoming them or deciding I don't need to change how I feel, or by realising the feeling is there because it satisfies a want or need or desire and letting that want go.

If it releases, it isn't here now. So where is it? Really, seriously where is it? It is nowhere, nowhen because there only is here and now, there is no then or there.

"Ah, but it might come back," you say. So what? Let it go again. "Ah but it keeps re-occurring and I'm sick of it, I want to erase it for good, forever, permanently."

Well apart from the fact that there is no "permanent", there is no "for good" - there is only now. There is still something you can do. If it re-occurs and that bothers you, stop trying to stop it! Let it come back. or ask what does that feeling satisfy? What are you lacking that it fullfills?

The same releasing process will release it and one-now you realise it is not there! It is rather ironic that letting go or releasing is perfectly natural and we all do it dozens or hundreds of times a day. We just don't notice it!

Handling anything that is not here now, is pointless, literally - there is no point to handle! The more letting go you do, the less letting go there is to do. Life provides you with plenty to allow and one glorious day you are at one with life and all is well, just as it always was!

 

[HappyGirl]

Loved that, FTS!